(Switzerland) Right to bear arms set to trigger new debate

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Drizzt

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Right to bear arms set to trigger new debate

There are no precise figures on the number of firearms in circulation

The Senate is due to launch a review of the country's firearms legislation this week as part of parliament's regular summer session.

The draft law foresees a slight tightening of regulations for purchasing and keeping guns and rifles, but it falls short of introducing a central database of all weapons in circulation.

Despite a long tradition of bearing arms and fairly responsible attitudes towards guns, Switzerland is not immune to tragedy and the gun law is a highly controversial subject.

It appears to be a contradiction that Switzerland, an orderly country with an efficient administration, has no record on the exact number of firearms.
Official estimates are surprisingly vague: between one and three million weapons, many of them kept in people's houses.

According to the Small Arms Survey (SAS), an international research programme based in Geneva, the per capita figure for weapons ownership in Switzerland is in fact above average.

"This is not due to the legal framework, which is neither liberal nor strict," says Keith Krause, director of SAS. "It depends far more on cultural and social factors. Switzerland has a traditional culture of bearing arms."

For example, soldiers of Switzerland's militia army are allowed to keep their army rifles and pistols at home. And the various sports involving firearms are particularly popular. There are more than 150,000 active members of rifle clubs, many of whom own more than one weapon.

Culture and tradition

"Things have been this way for centuries. The Swiss learn familiarity with weapons as children, in the company of their fathers," is the intentionally reassuring message of Willy Pfund, president of Pro Tell, an association that campaigns for liberal arms legislation.

"There is no need to worry. The Swiss have a responsible attitude towards firearms."

But Amnesty International believes that the availability of guns should be restricted, saying the fact that they are kept in the home is a permanent risk and could be a contributing factor for suicides and murders.

"In Switzerland, the percentage of people killed by firearms is slightly higher than in the rest of Western Europe", says Krause, who admits that it is not possible to identify a direct link between the numbers of weapons in circulation and their use.

However, the debate flares up every time a tragedy occurs, as it did in April when a former women's skiing champion, Corinne Rey-Bellet, was killed by her husband with his army pistol.

Schengen area

The government wants to impose tighter controls, largely to bring regulations into line with the regime in force in the European Union's Schengen area, which Switzerland will be joining in the near future.

The draft law includes introducing a mandatory permit for purchasing or keeping all types of firearms which is not at present necessary for all weapons.

It also foresees a ban on anonymous sales through the internet or small ads, and an obligation to report sales between private individuals.

"These are important moves and we support them," comments Amnesty International. "We welcome the prospect of an exchange of information between the armed forces and the Federal Police Office. There are some improvements, but we remain sceptical, given the decision not to go for a central arms register."

Central register

The establishment of such a register was initially to have been a key aspect of the reform.

But the proposal was rejected by 93 per cent of those questioned during the consultation procedure, mainly for financial reasons and because people objected to seeing their rights as free citizen curtailed.

"It would be difficult to bring in a register of this kind, given the Swiss federal system", Krause points out. He says an inventory of Switzerland's arsenal would be useful, although it would be difficult to assess its impact in reducing acts of violence.

Pfund of the gun lobby group rejects the proposed restrictions and thinks it far more important "to educate young people to have a safe and responsible relationship with firearms. It is a learning process, a question of learning adult behaviour".

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/front/...l?siteSect=105&sid=6787631&cKey=1149668371000
 
The government wants to impose tighter controls, largely to bring regulations into line with the regime in force in the European Union's Schengen area, which Switzerland will be joining in the near future
Folks; note these words carefully and commit them to memory.

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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
"Things have been this way for centuries. The Swiss learn familiarity with weapons as children, in the company of their fathers,"
Hopefully the Swiss will remember that it is this attitude towards weapons that has allowed them to remain an independent country in Europe for centuries, and the threat of a rifle in every household has prevented more than one hostile foreign power from invading.
 
GTSteve03,

Unfortunately, it did not stop the political coup d'tat originating from without that is now on the inside. Being absorbed into the EU spells the end of traditional Swiss gun ownership, however many interim steps it takes.

The Swiss no longer have any viable political avenue to stop this - except getting their country out of the EU.

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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
However, the debate flares up every time a tragedy occurs,

Flip over the rock from under which this debate flares up.

I'll betcha a buck that you'll find an agent provacateur, aided by whatever useful idiots he or she could round up.

Freedom isn't free, and yes, there will be some level of cost to a society whose citizens bear arms. That cost will always be less than the price of "making the mistake a free society only gets to make once".

There will always be those who are willing to exploit the doubts about that societal cost and will spread fear and uncertainty for their own ends.

Our society pays a far, far higher cost in lives for the benefits of swimming pools, automobiles and trucks than civil armament.
 
But Amnesty International believes that the availability of guns should be restricted, saying the fact that they are kept in the home is a permanent risk and could be a contributing factor for suicides and murders.
NGO's are the threat to our nation and others.

Unelected elites who wish to rule the world.
 
sigh.

Switzerland WAS my example of the best sort of Citizen Militia ideal, what the founding fathers likely had in mind. Everyone has an SMG stored at home, and 400,000 man army could be raised in four hours.

"Hidden" hangars all over with fighters, roads that can become runways, and self-destruct ordnance packages on all bridges into the country. A peaceful, beautiful nation that, if need be, that could roll up the drawbridge and put archers on the ramparts, so to speak, near-instantly.

I suppose they'll learn when perhaps some Islamist extremists blow up some stuff there, too, and people couldn't stop them.

Oh well. And I had no idea Amnesty International was so blatantly fascist.
 
Doesn't Switzerland have an extremely low crime rate? This just doesn't make any sense.
 
Swiss crime rates

including murder, were lower than in the control paradises of the UK, CAN, AUS, etc.

DOJ did a long-term study of cross-country crime statistics, and Switzerland beat just about every country studied (if not all countries studied), even the "model gun control" lands.

Here is a link to the full study:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cnscj.pdf

The key is the phrase the ban-bot used: "people killed by firearms."

This means they are only talking about deaths involving firearms, including suicides and accidents, but NOT all deaths by all methods (knife, headstomp, crowbar, etc.).
 
How very very sad.

I was just reading the other day about the youth programs they have.
It is a rather admirable out look they have regarding firearms. They start
them off early and have the older more experienced kids mentor the the
younger ones creating a greater sense of responsibility.

It would be a shame if that was lost.
 
As Mongo noted:
But Amnesty International believes that the availability of guns should be restricted, saying the fact that they are kept in the home is a permanent risk and could be a contributing factor for suicides and murders.
Restriction of rights in the name of freedom! :banghead: Butt out, officious interlopers! :fire: Go protest Tasers or do some other humorously-entertaining public spectacle.
 
This reminded me of something I heard on TV a few years ago.

The show was "QI" (standing for "quite interesting", apparently) and the host (Stephen Fry) perfectly demonstrated Twain's quote about "lies, damned lies and statistics". He claimed that Switzerland has the highest proportion of gun deaths in Europe, which he somehow blamed on all those "Army rifles" kept at home by the citizens :barf:.

Anyone listening to the show (and Fry is usually seen as a very learned and trustworthy bloke), would take such "facts" at face value and not think too hard about what the numbers refer to. The statistic, of course, was referring to all homicides within Switzerland, guns being used in proportionally the highest numbers. So if, for example, 20 people are killed in one year, and 15 of those are killed with guns, that means that 75% of murders in Switzerland are from shooting. Never mind the tiny numbers involved or the miniscule percentage of people murdered each year, compared with, say, the UK. Thus Fry and the shows producers could imply that Switzerland is some kind of haven for murderers due to all those nasty guns... After all, no layman is going to dig deeper into what was actually said.

It's all the more galling, I find, when the Left twists statistics round to misrepresent the truth, rather than just outright lying, like they usually do.
 
Manedwolf said:
I suppose they'll learn when perhaps some Islamist extremists blow up some stuff there, too, and people couldn't stop them.

Funny you should mention that. Switzerland is one of the few Western European nations not currently plagued with Muslim violence, be it street crime or terrorism. This is largely because their immigration policies are among the strictest in the developed world.

Of course, as with draconian gun control, lax EU immigration policies will be adopted as they further integrate into the new super-state. The country that everyone used to dream of moving to (but couldn't simply by fault of not being of Swiss descent) will become a third world slum along with the rest of the continent.
 
He says an inventory of Switzerland's arsenal would be useful, although it would be difficult to assess its impact in reducing acts of violence.

"Useful" only to government and criminals. Registration of firearms is to acts of violence as arsenic is to the number of stars on the U.S. flag: there is no relation whatever.
 
I have some recent, direct experience with Amnesty international and also with a Swiss anti-gun NGO. I'll be able to share the results of my interactions in July. Amnesty International is an ally of IANSA, the fascist thieves. In fact, Amnesty sent me an IANSA "control guns" tshirt as a thank-you for my services to them. I don't think they quite realize the real value of those services...
 
Oleg - sounds very interesting, I'm eager to hear the details of this intercourse.
 
Wait a second, isnt the entire purpose of the Swiss Militia System to prevent them from being incorporated into foreign political structures? Being subjegated isnt suddenly OK because the usurpers are polite.

I am not surprised that Amnesty is in bed with IANSA. I joined amnesty international as a freshman in HS and quit after 1 week because they were what I would now call "blissninnies" in the worst sort of way. I didnt have the political vocabulary that I do now, so I just said they were "nuts" and avoided them.
 
What Maned Wolf and American by Blood said.

And it is truly sad, and very angering, to me to see the twilight of the small but great country of Switzerland just over the horizon.

For those of you that can afford to travel and have not been there, I highly recommend you take the opportunity to go see Switzerland - while it is still Switzerland.

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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
Traditonal Swiss neutrailty goes bye bye, after how many years?
Well, the UN maintains a big second headquarters in Geneva, must be where a lot of the pressure is coming.
I wish the Swiss would simply laugh them out of thier country....as we should horsewhip the dirty UNdies out of ours.
 
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