SX1 - Hey, I like this

[JohnBT]

I was buying some odds and ends Friday evening to get ready for the duck season on the 19th and ran across a nice Remington 870TC trap gun for $429. Saturday I went back to look at it again (and to pick up some things I forgot to get the day before) and had enough free time to go up and down the aisle handling all the shotguns. About an hour later after picking up a hundred or so shotguns I shouldered a 12 ga. and it just plain fit. No matter how I threw it to my shoulder or which way it was pointed I was looking down the rib. Then I looked at the tag - SX1. You see, instead of straining my eyes reading the small print on the tags or the guns I've gotten into the habit of just picking them up first to see what feels good.

It was an SX1 with a 28" MOD barrel and I couldn't get the smile off my face so I bought it. Let's see, the SN is M598xx (late production?) and it has a soldered rib and the smooth aluminum trigger. There're a couple of small dings in the wood and two or three itty-bitty pinpoint spots that could be rust, but all in all I'd give it a 97%-98% on overall condition. It looks great if you don't eyeball it from 6 inches away. Looking at the inside it doesn't appear to have been shot very much, so the dings must be from banging around in the safe or closet.

I assume the pads that came on some of these were Winchester, but this one has a beautiful early Pachmayr White Line on it. I say early for two reasons. The address on it is Pachmayr Gun Works, Los Angeles, 15, California and Zip Codes IIRC came into use in 1963. Who knows, but it whoever did it got it right. The second reason is that it matches the description and sketch of the White Line in the '63 Shooters Bible - looks like they used semi-circular stippling around the edges back then and not the full-coverage stippling they use now.

Should I take it out in the boat Saturday for opening day? What's a little saltwater and marsh mud, right?

John

P.S. - Okay I'll fess up on the price, I talked them down from $499 to $449. I was thinking to myself that I had paid $328 4 years ago for the black plastic Walmart Special 1100 and this is a real wood-&-steel shotgun. FWIW, they had a used black plastic 1100 on the rack for $349.

 

[sm]

Congrats!

I've heard about them SX1s

http://www.nulineguns.com/
http://www.nulineguns.com/superxframe.htm

*ahem* Get you another bolt handle in the event one goes "plop" in the duck blind , though I never did this myself. Also stick another "O" ring in your wallet - let folks think you are carrying a condom in your wallet...

Now back in the day, before Non- Toxic, #5 lead shot was good for greenheads. Mine liked #4 , #2 steel. I forget the Bismuth's exact loading, but the #5 in it seemed right nice.

One '74 I have put over 200k rds thru...and still running like a top. Take a peek at Brister's book...yep the gun is in there. "Most reliable semi- auto tested in all conditions, including blowing sand..." so sayeth Brister. Proven by me as well.

Another tidbit for now, have the vent rib pinned. May not happen to you, but folks like myself running 25K rds a year thru them had the rib slide forward. Competent Gunsmith will drill tiny holes into rib into braces and pin. Mine is done in 3 places . I was kinda sorta known to Run 'em a lot...like 16 rds in one day.

Mine is back wearing its original recoil pad as you described. When I was seriously shooting, Mine sported the only real recoil pad there is - Pachmyer Decelarator...

You is gonna really likes the way that gun shoots, and patterns. Get some lavender Fiocchis in 1 1/8 oz...*grin*.
Paper or plastic...I reloaded both...and the Fiocchi components are GREAT! Using Win components were great too...18.5 grs of 452AA...and well you get the idea.

1974 model with over 200k rds came with a 28" Mod bbl...Back when - had Nu-Line do the external knurled chokes - steel approved. I had extra bbls, so doing this one was okay.

Machined steel, crafted, built right...oh yeah. Nu-Line are great folks to deal with. They know Winchesters and they know this gun very well!

 

[HSMITH]

Oh oh, you stumbled on one of the best shotguns ever made. Don't be surprised if your new shotgun makes room in your safe as some that just don't measure up find reasons to leave.

The price was very reasonable too. Congratulations on buying a superb shotgun.

 

[JohnBT]

Thank you both for the advice and encouragement. I made room in the safe by loaning out my '93 Express with the Decelerator pad I hand sanded to a (nearly) perfect fit. The guy's duck gun, an 1100, is worn out and he hasn't decided what to replace it with.

It's funny how things work out if you keep looking long enough. I'd been reading all of the SX1 posts and filing away the recommendations for future reference, but the guns just haven't turned up around here and now I know why. The store manager I bought the gun from said they have a customer who has bought up all the really nice ones when they came in and must have 20 by now. I seem to remember the numbers $600 and $700 being mentioned for the field grade guns. Then again, some people say the store is little high. One example I saw: a Rem 541-T .22 with plain wood tagged at $549. They move an awful lot of guns, so what do I know. I'm starting to sound like my grandparents used to... "It cost how much?" They were all born in the 1890s, so the sticker shock of 20th century life must have really been severe.

1-1/8 oz. lavender Fiocchis eh? Well, Green Top is a Fiocchi dealer and I need some more blind material before Saturday, so I'll be back there tomorrow. And Bismuth, can't forget that.

I saw some used barrels for sale yesterday on one of the SX1 sites. Choke tubes, eh?

John

 

[sm]

Housekeeping

OT

NO, I am a representative of any Firearm Mfg. I do not get anything monetarily from the suggestions of 28 gauge shotguns, Win. SX1s or anything else.

I have always been a Rebel, and not just cause I was born, raised and live in the South.

I am not as smart as many. I just happen to focus on a small group of firearms I believe in, have experince with , and happen to like.

Raised in certain era and my have druthers about stuff.

I am not the THR resident "get someone in trouble" for buying certain guns.

I am the Official THR member to Blame tho'.
Okay, always been the one to blame even before the Internet...

Never sold ice water to a Eskimo - I did give a bottle of water to one, obvious he was not from around these parts...Interesting individual.

I have spent the night in a Holiday Inn, The Anatole, Hampton Inn ..some other places including THE Lakeside Cottages off a one lane chat road in the middle of nowhere - nearest lake being 120mi >>>that-a-way>>>....

Did spent many years "selling" , and I know all about "if you cannot dazzle "em with brillance - baffle 'em with bull droppings". Being as I ain't smart - I ...err...well watch where you step.

Just wanted to clear up any ideas I was some kind of THR "dedicated get folks in trouble"...getting any kickbacks...or somesuch.

Now if someone wants to adopt me...I'm adoptable. If'n you need someone to stand out on Clay Range and stir up trouble - I'm available...

 

[sm]

The SX1 is like many guns of yesteryear. Metallurgy, Craftsmanship, and Machined.

Folks ask - what happened to the SX1 and similar guns?

Simple. On the SX1, Remington came out with a Stamped Offering, for less Monies, and it worked. The timing was perfect. The 1100 nailed the transiton of folks waiting until they could afford something, or used lay-a-way.

Folks whipped out them Credit Cards as they were supposed to and started buying goods and services, including 1100s - on credit.

Ending of a Era. Folks saved up, bought a gun that would last a long long time. Folks had pretty one shotgun for all shotgun duties. For many the Shotgun was the only tool for food or defense.

1100s sales killed the SX1.
Other stamped offerings "had" done this in the pump gun arena, such as 870s, and 1300s. Folks just didn't appreciate the Model 12 and similar...

WE had entered the age of Planned Obselesence,....
...attitudes of quality started changing - if you want to charge something - charge it, if you want to change your mind, change it and charge another, and the Equipment Race was heating up...Buy them Skills and Targets...I mean that is what the Charge Card is For...right?

--
At least the offerings in better shotshells and components came on strong.

I was young, I was still caught in all this mess. I was one of "them", shooting AA paper hulled loads, with a SX1, or
My Fiocchi lilac hulled nickel plated high antimony target loads.
Or my reloads...still using 1 1/8 oz....newer 1oz some of 'my kind" were using in Win 101s, Rem 3200s, Perazzis...
Still even they wanted every single pellet in that load. 7/8 oz were 'just' coming about.

I had Nu-Line already do some work on other stuff as did my pards and kind- took their suggestions. I had already used a Stan Baker Bore Diameter tool to that SX1 bbl. Damn- I was impressed with the Factory knowing and doing what they did. I had read the NILO stuff, I had read and tested a LOT of stuff...had bugged Win, and Fiocchi on loads...

My measurments and figuring and Nu-Line's craftsman agreed. Well after why I explained what I was going to do with the gun...and had other SX1s and Barrels.

Nu-Line was going to talk me out of doing this choke install. WE agreed on the wee bit of forcing cone work...wee bit because the chokes altered a bit the Factory set up. "Oh,okay, then we feel better about doing this for you..."

---

Now back in the day [tm] There were some shoots "not sanctioned" . This was an invitation only deal. One paid an "entry fee" but the way the money was 'distributed" a bit different than a 'sanctioned' shoot.

I got my Sx1 back, had patterned it to check POA/ POI and it was perfect...no change at all from Win Factory. I double checked and tweaked the fit, and double, triple checked various loadings...serious business was about to occur down in the Lone Star State.

Machined Quality Made Guns vs the New Stamped out guns.

We had a new Camp of shooters coming up and in...Time to put your money where your mouth is...

1897s, Model 12s, 101s...did their thing...

I was chosen to represent the SX1 bunch. I had been up against "these opponents before". Lets just say we didn't see eye to eye. I was old school, they were the new breed...I was younger than many of these "new breed" mind you.

Back then my rent -IIRC - was $160 a month. One could buy a new 1100 for $149, best I recall.

I paid $500 personally to play this game. Hot, humid, and the dirt just a blowing. Before it was all over I had run 20 boxes thru that SX1 in one day. I started early, took a break, and the gun never missed a beat. I ran a 497/500 in case folks wonder.

I ran 1500 rds in this 'event' , lasted 4 days. 1100s were good, still needed a few tweaks that did happen later. Other new offerings did not do so good. Shooters were wearing thin...getting fatigued..and some were younger - than I .

No - I didn't clean the gun per se' I only pipe brushed the breechface and extractor, the chamber, took a looksee at the "O" ring, and the Zippo Tin can filled with Dexcron ATF was the few drops of lube at 500 rds. See I had to have witnesses, and oberved when I did this. At night the gun was locked up with witnesses. Main thing was to inspect, maintain...my focus has always been the chamber, and extraction. Still is.


I was only supposed to shoot 1k rds. My pard had an emergency, which is another story, short version - agreed I'd carry on and finish for the both of us, he too was shooting the Exact same set up as mine, SX1.

I was allowed to have his gun on the field, his too had been thru this witness ordeal. Only difference - he used a tin of Browning Gun oil. (another dumb story someday...)
The kicker- if MY gun broke down, and I grabbed his, I would be penalized. My opponents did not have the restrictions we did. One of them "matter of principal" deals...

So I shot his 500, as agree with all parties.

Now the kicker was, one opponent, one in particular I mentioned whom did not see eye to eye with me...or anyone, anything, ...well he asked for it.

See there was my pard and I shooting against 4 folks, they had a extra person. So I had been been the lonesome Rebel with a 5 man squad. The mental game is so important.

I had $2000 in my pocket, there was other monies "exchanged"...*ahem*.

I thru down $500 and said "triple or nothing - you have 30 seconds to make up your mind, you got 15 minutes to be on the field if you agree, I will be waiting".

Yeah one might say I have a certain fondess for the SX1. It fit me, it was reliable, it was proven. To say I had and still have confidence in the SX1 is an understatement.

That last round of 25? Didn't last long. There is a reason I harp about gun fit, correct basic fundamentals, and doing them daily repetitions of mounting gun to face, and dry firing - stamina is just one reason...

I ran the 25* targets. I was known to shoot a fast round...I wore down folks trying to keep up the pace...Going against the 4 - complaints were heard, one -on-one...no mercy.

Some folks earned more repsect for the SX1 after that event. Some became more bitter and hated the mention of a SX1. This would continue for years, especially with one bunch of folks, and one in particular.

Just a little something down in the Lone Star State, My SX1 gets along right fine down there...

Always thought the SX1 should have been done in a 20ga and 28 ga. Bunch of us Expressed that quite often and loud for many many years...

You figured out the "monies". My final score?

I ran 497/500, 497/500, then I ran my first 500/500 , then of course 27/25*. I was feeling cocky, and just had to have a double pulled on station 8, both the High and low house.


You have not only a fine gun, you have a piece of history. '97s, 12s, 101s 21s, 23s...do not mind the company of a SX1, even if it is a self shucker.

Run 'em

Steve

 

[JohnBT]

I wish I'd been there to see that event. I love your stories, even though I still cringe a little at the thought of shooting that many shells and not having anything to take home for supper.

I was raised around mountain folk, apple farmers, who owned one shotgun each and a box of high brass number 6. My father bought a new full choked 20 ga. Model 12 in the '50s. My great uncle used an old '97 and my grandfather an ancient Stevens hammer gun. My dad's younger brother went for a Wingmaster and then added an A-5 Magnum.

They used them for everything from quail and rabbits to turkey (my dad killed 2 on the wing once with 2 quick shots of #6 from that Model 12) and a bear (a long story I've told before about a afternoon stroll gone bad.) I was stubborn and wouldn't listen to reason and got a 12 ga. Fox Model B that was as big as I was. Live and learn.

I do have a credit card, but I've never done a layaway for anything. I still follow the old ways - if you can't pay for it you don't need it. Actually, I follow ways much older than that - just because you have it doesn't mean you need to spend it. Yeah, we're a thrifty bunch. The gun store had this stunning Rizzini O/U that I don't have a use for and I almost wrote them a check Sunday for $6k or so just because I liked it. Nope, I couldn't do it. I guess I'll just have to make do with the 28 ga. Guerini my dad gave me for my birthday two months ago.

Talk at you later, I've been at work for an hour and a half and need to get back at it.

John

 

[sm]

JohnBT,

No sir - it is I that thanks you.

I appreciate your posts and input not only in shotguns, in other forums on THR as well. One can pick up characteristics of an individual after a bit. You come accross as being from the old school as I was.

Oh...there are them pictures of "purty" shotguns you share from time to time...and your sharing of passing it forward to. I did mention the "purty" shotguns didn't I.

Recoil spring:

I always forget this part (hey I made a pun). Replacement of Recoil Spring, the one that runs thru buttsock, was "suggested" at 5K rds best I recall.

Honest - I do not recall where "that" recommendation came from. It is NOT in the owner's manual. Nu-Line did NOT tell me or others this. Nu-Line just said "shoot the gun, inspect and maintain, "O" rings pretty much all you need to worry about". I mentioned I had been using pipe cleaners - especially on the ports. "Wish more folks would NOT use twist drills...[even back then some folks over did things, went too fast, or used too much tool].

So "somewhere" this suggestion of replacing the Recoil Spring at 5K rds came about.

Okay, I replaced mine , as did a few other SX1 owners about 5k rds into ownership. Didn't take us long to get to 5K rds either.

Always figured with inspect and maintain, I would catch a problem early on anything, preventative maintanence and all that.

As honest as I can recall. MY recoil spring has not been replaced since then.
I still have the original, still feels good to me.
I hopefully still have the second new one I bought, for down the road replacment...

So I would contact Nu-Line an get some feedback. I cannot recall some folks' names up there, but the folks I used to speak to - sure knew shotguns, and the SX1, all sorts of great tidbits.

If mine was replaced between the 5K rd and now with over 200k rds, it would of had to of happened by a shooting buddy in care of my gun...and I never recall this being mentioned. Actually we were really curious as to how long and well these things would run ...kinda like A5s...don't need much except ammo and someone to shoot e'm.

Most of my shooting was target loads, 2 3/4 and 3dr. This has a lot to do with the wear and tear on my gun. Oh I shot my share of Hunting Loads, felled a lot of ducks , small game, deer. Using this Nu- Line choked bbl, or one of the others...you do know they made a slug bbl for this thing?

The Field grades have blued mag tubes, the Target Guns had chromed ones.
both have the same sticker showing order of ring assembly...which mine has promptly lost...early on.

I never saw a need for getting this "upgrade" in mag tube on the Field Grade.

So if you get some spare parts from Nu-Line:
Bolt handle, "O" rings , gas system ring pack, Recoil Spring, mag spring , metal mag spring guide (breech end) mag spring retainer ( mag cap end that goes over wooden shell restriction dowel),and reciever pin.

Understand, all I did was replace 'O" rings, the recoil spring, and used a Pachmeyer Decelarator pad. I also as mentioned had the rib pinned, and had a mid bead installed. Folks do this to avoid canting the gun - especially whem premounting...

I shoot from low gun, still do. I don't see the bead or beads, the mid bead is there in the event instead of "pointing" , I "more point" using slugs or going after "critters" with legs- the number of legs is not important. *grin*

 

[JohnBT]

I'm taking notes, but speaking of pictures, look at what I ran across looking for all things SX1...

www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=40059889

"Winchester Super X Model 1...Mississippi Flyway Edition SN 229 A Limited edition of 500 manufactured, Gold Inlayed Receiver, 30” Full barrel, Mid Bead, Ventilated Rib, AAA+ Wood, Gold Duck embossed pistol grip butt plate. Limited Edition Wildlife Print “Mississippi Flyway” by Allen Hughes. The original Limited Edition print box describing the Event, the print and the history of the gun. Included with the gun is a SuperX1 Takedown/Assembly manual, several SX1 Brochures, “Myth or Magic” article by Steve Fischer, several “O” rings, a Receiver Buffer, Super X1 Patch. To my knowledge this gun has not been fired…. $2500.00"

 

[sm]

Now that is a shotgun!!



Looks even better in one's hands. The Wood, the bluing, metal to gun fit, and the gold inlay...Yep, better in real life.

You better bet your bottom dollar that gun shoots...May have only been 500 made, and the one pictured is not fired...don't mean some of the other 500 have not been fired.

Thank you so much for sharing these pics.

Winchester Custom Shop, turned out some remarkable works of Art that shoot Great!

Georgia, Georgia on my mind...

 

[HSMITH]

Steve, getting mud out of the checkering, buttpad, and engraving on a shotgun like that is a pain. Don't ask how I know. I would REALLY like to have that shotgun for a target gun though. Makes a feller think unclean thoughts seeing a shotgun that pretty, like trading one portion of his dangling accoutrement for it.....

 

[Rupestris]

Gentlemen. I can understand your love of shotguns. For my own sanity I ask that you refrain from posting pictures like that.


In fact, I'm going to request that all pics of the following be banned:
SX1's
A5's
311's
Any Remington with a "T" in the title/name

Thank you for your time.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Steve,

Loved the account. Reminds me of my bowling days. I worked at a bowling alley in the late 60's-early 70's. Late night "pot games" with the hot shots that showed up. There was this one skinny guy with a big mean hook that worked there.

This is a shotgun forum though, I'll save those stories for somewhere else.

Thanks for the story.

 

[sm]

I knew this was going to happen...

Hence the Housekeeping post...#5 to be exact.

Well I see Rupestris, left off 28 gauges on his list of banned gun list.
Post Pics if'n you got em folks!...
Be sure to include the Model 12 in 28 ga when you do...*smirk*

Rupestris -

In all due respect - being a Rebel and all...That Dog Won't Hunt- we gotta do this picture showing and talking up..part of that "passing forward" thing we are supposed to do...
not to mention I don't do this banning and restriction stuff very well...not well at all...*grin*

The SX1 rightfully earned its place in History. Not my fault the durn things are that good looking. Shoot better than they look!

HSMITH -
Yeah Yeah I know...did ya know if you are in Gawgia the beavers are as sneaky as anywhere else. I was just wading to get my ducks, (took a trio, you know how it goes...) water just rushed and naturally over my waders...

Usually I blame the bar ditches...I can find a bar ditch that folks did not even know existed.

My host <laughing> "ain't a bar ditch in there...".

"Beavers then..."
"ain't none of them of them around either...".

Beavers are to blame for Me getting wet and the SX1 getting goopy and muddy...

Not easy to toss a coin...So I tossed a loaded shell in the air, out by the Dekes...'If it floats - bar ditches, if it sinks...beavers.

Beavers won.

Explains why some duck blinds and boats have toothbrushes in them...
For de-gooping a gun...

 

[JohnBT]

"The Field grades have blued mag tubes, the Target Guns had chromed ones.
both have the same sticker showing order of ring assembly..."

Mine has the blue mag tube and the sticker, 'though some of it is curled up.

Funny thing, mine already has a mid bead.

I think I'm going to need to get the disassembly instructions for this one.

John


P.S. - And real quick before the all-day meeting starts :banghead:


www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976527168.htm

"WINCHESTER MODEL 12 CUSTOM ENGRAVED PIGEON SKEET 28 GAUGE, PISTOL GRIP, 26" BARREL, 2 7/8" CHAMBER, STANDARD SOLID RIB, DIMENSIONS: DAC-1 1/2", DAH-2 5/8", LOP-14 1/2" TO WINCHESTER BUTT PLATE, BEAUTIFUL ENGRAVED GAME SCENE WITH GOLD INLAY, SERIAL NUMBER 11412XX"

All that and only $15,000.

John

 

[sm]

DROOL!!!

I handled MANY Shotguns while attending the Tulsa Gun Show in April.

Rumor is I had a real hard time handing some back;such as - not limited to:

Winchester Super X Model 1s- Field, Skeet/Trap Two Barreled sets...

Model 42s,

Winchester Model 12s, in 12, 20 and 28 gauges ...including one exactly as pictured!

I also really really wanted the Model 12 in 28 ga, Field Grade, I kid you not this gun was LNIB - $4800. I just kept shouldering this one, rubbing the stock, smelling the wood, metal, lube...I took my time wiping it down before I handed it back...

Going to sound dumb, and corny. I see some pictures of some guns and I am flooded with memories...Done turned into a Mentor and Elder...and I ain't that old...just started early is all.

JohnBT,

Contact Harley here on THR in Regard to a Owner's Manual.
Nu-Line may also have one.
Old Fuff may also be of assistance (he knows about shotguns...he just plays dumb most times).
Preacerman also has a manual IIRC as well...

My personal owner's manuals are not handy at the moment. In fact I need access to one myself for SX1 - (and Model 12, 42, 1300, and Rem 870,1100...and to find some stocks for a K frame...).

If you do not come up with a SX1 manual, PM me.
Eventually I will make the trip to the storage place, and hopefully, all these manuals are still where they are supposed to be.

Like I said...appreciate your postings, input, sharing, and da pictures!

 

[sm]

Rupestris? ...Rupestris? ...

Someone grab the smelling salts and go check on Rup. I thought I heard a THUD! second ago...

<hand to chest> Elizabeth - its the big one!

Rup- don't you be pulling a Fred Sanford on us.

 

[Rupestris]

Rupestris? ...Rupestris? ...

Someone grab the smelling salts and go check on Rup. I thought I heard a THUD! second ago...

<hand to chest> Elizabeth - its the big one!

Rup- don't you be pulling a Fred Sanford on us.

whah... wha... whahappened...? Last thing I remember was thinking how lucky some folks are that pine and ash aren't the only trees on this planet... saw a couple dogs... pointers I think... woke up in a puddle of what appears to be tears and drool.

Man, I gotta lay off that champipple.