Tactical Flashlight w/ Handgun?

[CZSteve]

What technique does everyone here use for holding tactical light (ie Xenon w/ 2 123's Lithium batteries) with a handgun?

Option 1: Rogers/Surefire technique assuming the light has the grip/body design to enable this style of grip.

Option 2: Held in a your weak hand w/ your thumb on the tail-cap button and then resting your strong hand w/ handgun on the wrist of your weakhand.

Reason I'm asking:
Considering a Tact. Light and I'm undecided on what to get.
Wondering how important the ability to use the 'Rogers' style hold is and/or if an adjustable beam is good or bad.

Tend to feel that the 'Rogers' style would require more of a 'fine' motor skill than just gripping a tradional tail-cap light in your hand w/ the thumb on the button. Think I would a traditional thumb on tail-cap hold. Thoughts?

Considered Lights:
Streamlight TL-2
Surefire 6P
Surefire G2Z
Surefire C2

All have an excellent reviews and I have also checked out www.candlepowerforums.com

The TL-2 has an adjustable beam, has a clip for carry w/out a holster, and is $50.00

The 6P is a classic and is also $50.00. Wish it had a clip.

G2Z is highly regarded. Enables 'Rogers', but no clip.

C2 has everything w/ a fixed beam, but the price is getting up there.

Is an adjustable beam an advantage or a detriment for a tactical light?

 

[Bob F.]

For me: Option 2, Harries' technique, I believe. I use a Maglight because that's what I have. Surefire Ethilon (I think; the cheapie) is fine for less $$
IMHO, of course!

Stay safe.
Bob

 

[Rabbit9]

#2 is known as the "Harries" Technique.

There is a very viable "third" option.....A weapon mounted light.

I carry a Surefire E2E, but when I know that I might be using a flashlight(nightstand gun), I want an option that let's me keep both hands on my weapon or gives me a free hand to open doors, pick up children, etc.

 

[pax]

I prefer the Harries technique. It's basically Weaver-with-a-flashlight and as such is familiar and easy to fall into.

I don't like weapons-mounted lights. Quite simply, if you use a mounted light, you are going to point your gun at people and things you have not yet identified. "Never point your gun at anything you don't intend to shoot."

pax

 

[Rabbit9]

I prefer the Harries technique. It's basically Weaver-with-a-flashlight and as such is familiar and easy to fall into.

Not to be argumentative PAX, but the Harries technique is far from a Weaver stance. The Weaver stance uses the support hand to provide isometric tension(push/pull), and you can't do that using the back of your support wrist. The Harries technique helps index the gun, but does little to control recoil or improve accuracy.

Using proper technique, with the Harries technique or a weapon mounted light, you scan with the edge of the beam to avoid pointing the gun "at people and things you have not yet identified".

I would say that the Military/LEO community uses weapon mounted lights for a reason.

 

[Bob F.]

Don't want a light mounted on my handgun for a variety of reasons. Would like one on the shotty though. Hard to control the 12ga w/ one hand.

Stay safe.
Bob

 

[Jeff White]

I use the Harries technique if I don't have a weapon mounted light. I've tried the Rogers/Surefire technique and don't shoot as well with it as with the Harries.

Rabbit9, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you about the Harries technique doing nothing to improve accuracy or reduce recoil. If you do it right, you do get the push/pull with your wrists. You still push with your strong side wrist and pull back with your support wrist. Pax is right, it's a variation of the weaver if done properly.

The debate over weapons mounted lights will probably go on forever. Your firearm is not a flashlight. If you keep that in mind you'll do fine. If you don't intend on having to shoot, don't use your weapon mounted light. In fact don't even present your weapon. I don't see the difference in clearing a building with a light mounted on your weapon, or doing the same thing with your light held next to your weapon in wither the Rogers/Surefire or Harries technique. Either way you will cover anyone you hit with the light with the muzzle of your weapon. The weapon mounted light does free up your weak hand to open doors etc.

The key to any technique is to train with it. If you practice with your flashlight in your offhand and your weapon in your strong hand in a low ready position, you're going to be just as effective as the person with a weapons mounted light. Maybe a second slower, but that's about it. IMHO neither is wrong. If it works for you go with it.

Jeff

 

[Fly320s]

I use the Harries style:

Option 2: Held in a your weak hand w/ your thumb on the tail-cap button and then resting your strong hand w/ handgun on the wrist of your weakhand.

To be correct, the strong wrist does not rest on the support wrist. The support arm's elbow should be pointed nearly straight down. The wrists should be locked together using opposing (isometric) tension.

 

[VaughnT]

I'll choose Option 4: the FBI Neck-Index hold.

To accomplish this hold, simply bring your weak hand up to approximately the same level as your ear with your thumb on the tailcap switch and the lens pointed towards the badguy.

Why this technique? Well, it doesn't allow you to use the a two-handed grip, but it is a reflexive movement. With your weakhand/arm in this position, you are ready to block a hit to the head or strike out in a hammerstrike or punch with your loaded fist. Again, this is something that you can and will assume in a fight/flight response to aggression.

Do you suffer for shooting one-handed? How far away do you really think the badguy will be? Will you have time to twist your hands together? Will you have time to line up the sights and make an accurate shot? Will you really have that need?

I like the neck-index because it's a big movement, a core movement, that sets me up for other movements. Considering that most encounters are close and fast, with hand fighting coming before gun fighting, I think it's the best option of all of them. And, it brings the importance of being able to handle your weapon one-handed to the forefront of your mind.

Just something to thing about.

As for prefered light, I've really gotten a kick out of my new Pelican M6 LED. It's just as bright as the Surefire 6P when you're up close and personal, and just as well suited to striking. And it's as cheap or cheaper!

 

[DrPsycho]

I have a 9P with shock proof bezel (Z32) - I find the 2 cell Surefires a little too small for my hands. Harries - it's just about as uncomplicated as it gets IMHO.

 

[Rabbit9]

If you practice with your flashlight in your offhand and your weapon in your strong hand in a low ready position, you're going to be just as effective as the person with a weapons mounted light. Maybe a second slower, but that's about it.

Jeff, my split times are in the teens; would you want to give me that second?

In my experience, when it comes to speed and accuracy, the contest between hand-held techniques and weapon mounted lights isn't even close.

 

[Bob F.]

That close, that quick----I'm not sure I even need a light! Much prefer to identify my target, but when they're on me hard & fast muzzle flash will illuminate 'em!

Stay safe.
Bob

 

[Teufelhunden]

Given that I own a Streamlight TL-2. a Surefire G2 and a Surefire 9AN Commander, I would heartily recommend the G2. For $32 you really can't go wrong.

FWIW, I don't consider my Streamlight TL-2 a 'tactical' flashlight. The beam isn't near as focused as the G2 and the beam won't throw as far. It is however, a useful task light (as the name implies) and having the low-draw LED option is nice.

All things considered, none of the Streamlights I've ever handled have worked as well or felt as nice as the Surefires. I can heartily recommend the SF G2 and also suggest you buy your lithium batteries straight from Surefire.com as they're $15 for a box of 12 as opposed to the $8 for a pair price you'll find at Wal-mart.

-Teuf

 

[sturmruger]

My vote is for the weapon mounted light. I don't like to have to worry about loosing my flashlight if I get jumped. When I have my light mounted on my XD40 all I have to worry about is keeping a hold of my gun.

I have been training very carefully to avoid shining my flashlight exactly on my target initially. I usually start off to the side, issue a verbal command, then trian the light, and laser directy on my target.

 

[pax]

I have been training very carefully to avoid shining my flashlight exactly on my target initially. I usually start off to the side, issue a verbal command, then trian the light, and laser directy on my target.

Yes, that's great when you're dealing with a cardboard target at a given (and predictable) height and distance from yourself. Or if you are very sensibly and properly holed up in a safe room, waiting for the intruder to come to you.

But if you live in a house with other people, there will possibly be occasions when you'll have to enter an unsecured part of the house in order to make sure that your loved ones are safe.

When searching a room, your potential target (read that also as, potential good guy) could be at almost any height or distance from where you are. He or they may be in rooms beyond where you are searching as well -- and sheet rock does not stop bullets.

To search, you peek into the room (avoiding getting sillhouetted while you do so). You shine your light into the bottom edge of a likely looking dark corner. Slide it up as far as the ceiling, looking carefully at the entire scene, especially those areas illuminated by the light. Turn your light back off. Move at least two steps offline and do it again. And again. Keep doing this until you have seen every inch of the room at least once.

I guarandangtee you that if you are using your gun as a flashlight during this exercise, at some point you will point your muzzle at something or someone you do not intend to shoot, or at potential innocents in the rooms beyond. Yes, even if you have been trained to avoid shining your light exactly on a cardboard target when you lift the gun preparatory to shooting.

A criminal can get great use from a weapon mounted light, as he has permission from his conscience to point his gun at and shoot anything he wants.

A LEO may also find a weapon mounted light useful, and so may an armed citizen. But the safety tradeoffs are simply not worth it.

My opinion only, worth exactly what you paid for it.

pax

 

[Rabbit9]

But if you live in a house with other people, there will possibly be occasions when you'll have to enter an unsecured part of the house in order to make sure that your loved ones are safe.

.....and with a flashlight in one hand and a pistol in the other hand, you would be opening those doors with what? Of course, you could render one of those items totally useless and use your free hand to open the door. It would be a master test of the two handed techniques to employ them while holding a child.

When searching a room, your potential target (read that also as, potential good guy) could be at almost any height or distance from where you are. He or they may be in rooms beyond where you are searching as well -- and sheet rock does not stop bullets.

Your right, sheet rock, paneling, plywood, etc, do not stop bullets. But, you've got to add a little common sense to the equation. By the same logic, if you live in a two story house you should not point your gun up/down, and if you live in an apartment building there may be no "safe "place to point your weapon.

A criminal can get great use from a weapon mounted light, as he has permission from his conscience to point his gun at and shoot anything he wants.

Opinion or not, I really don't care much for the inference that people that use weapon mounted lights are negligent.

I'm not stating that there is a right way or a wrong way. I used the harries technique for many years, and I just see the weapon mounted light as the next evolutionary step.

 

[Jeff White]

Rabbit9 said;

Jeff, my split times are in the teens; would you want to give me that second?

In my experience, when it comes to speed and accuracy, the contest between hand-held techniques and weapon mounted lights isn't even close.

How's your accuracy after being hit in the eyes with a bright light?

It's all in how you employ the light. Even though I use weapon mounted lights at work, I hesitate to say that a weapon mounted light is the only way to go. There is more then one way to accomplish most tasks. The key is to have a good light and practice employing it.

I don't belive pax or anyone else suggested that people who use weapon mounted lights are negligent. I understood her to say that weapons mounted lights were not the solution for her. If she chooses never to point her weapon at a target until it's been identified as hostile because that's what she's comfortable with that's fine. That's how she chooses to train and fight if need be.

When she said:

A LEO may also find a weapon mounted light useful, and so may an armed citizen. But the safety tradeoffs are simply not worth it.

My opinion only, worth exactly what you paid for it.

I took her to mean that it was her personal decision. For herself. I use weapons mounted light and didn't take offense. As a peace officer I'm comfortable with pointing a weapon at a subject that is potentially hostile. My employment requires to me to go places and do things where that is necessary to survive. I'm sure that Pax's needs are different. No one is wrong here. The lesson we should all take from this thread is:

A: Have a good light.

B: Know how to properly employ it.

Jeff

 

[FedGunner]

I use the "Harris"

I posted a review of a course I took, and in it I describe that when using the Surefire technique I would either retard the slide or hit the mag release. None of the other students had this problem.