Taking foreign exchange students to the range.

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CubDriver

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Our dorm has had an influx of Japanese foreign exchange students this term (this is traditionally the term that they visit). We are supposed to include them in our everyday activities, inside and outside of school. Two of my hobbies are shooting, and aviation. I have already taken some of them flying, and when they were at the hanger they saw the shotgun we keep in the airplane when we take trips. This sparked a conversation amongst them I couldn’t totally follow. Upon talking to some of the other students here that speak Japanese, in Japan private gun ownership is basically banned. This has sparked a series of questions about guns, and shooting. I am interested in taking some of these guys shooting, but I am concerned about the language barrier. I don’t know Japanese (they have taught me to say hello, and count to five; we are still working on six thru ten), and they have a limited command of English.

Is there any website with firearms safety information in various languages, which I could give them to read, and then go over basic commands, etc? Has anyone else done something like this before? Any advice/recommendations?

Thanks,
David
 
I have had students at the range from several African nations, India, Pakistan, Germany and others. The one thing that I can't stress enough is that you limit yourself to one gun or one new shooter at a time.

David
 
I second the one gun/student at a time recommendation for more then one reason. First and foremost is the language barrier, it's alot easier to get accross gun safety one person at a time. You can address each issue one at a time through visual commands such as working things out with your hands for shady areas of communication. I find this combined with words recognized, is very effective and non english speakers quickly get the idea. Regardless of subject.

Another thing is here in America, since we have the constitution that grants us certain rights, as has been mentioned before other countries do not have such rights. There are no rights inherant to the people, only priv's handed out by the government as they see fit, and removed just as quickly, often on a whimsical basis. With a lack of public firearms needed to maintain this type of control, there are no firearm rights, and no inherent sense of what firearms do other then make loud noises and kill. They are an almost magical item in most countries. Here most people at the very least have some rudimentary idea of some type of gun safety or have at least heard of it. These people have not which is another reason why it needs to be done on a one on one basis.

There are other reasons aplenty but these are the two most important in my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Rev. Michael

P.S.
Check your local sheriff's office or NRA official. Since America has a number of people here allowed to carry guns with no requirement to speak english, it is possible to have such things in other languages. I know for a fact the NRA has safety materials in spanish and may have it in other languages as well. Don't count on local school administration to have anything for obvious reasons. For the reasons stated above local sheriff's office may have materials in other languages, specificaly the concealed handgun licensing unit or whatever it is called in your area.
 
Welllll, I wouldn't do it and I've got some *very* good friends in Japan who I'd like to shoot a gun. My Japanese is rudimentary at best. I can get a round Tokyo and the metropolitan areas on my own, I know the culture and social traditions well enough to understand the nuances of conduct, vocal tone, and action.

If my friends in Japan ever come here and I can get them to the range, I'll not do it unless a US resident friend of mine who's fluent in Japanese is with me. I'd sure like to, too, but the liabilities are just too great, and though their conduct is deferrant to say the least, in the excitement of a group situation where each in turn is anticipating a chance at handling a firearm, distractions can abound. I wouldn't have a clue on how to explain the functions of a 1911 to someone who doesn't speak a common language; target acquisition, the 180 rule, backstop, etc. would all be beyond my abilities to communicate.

However, if you must, and have the means, there's one word you should have down by reflex. "STOP". In Japanese, it's phonetically pronounced, "Ya-MAY" (yame), but you'd have to have it down as a reflexive command. Of course it's more desirable to have the Japanese down, only for the reason that you'll get a faster acknowledgement from your 'offending' party, but in a pinch "NO!" should work also, as most Japanese have a better rudimentary handle on English than we do on Japanese. However, whichever language you use, from the Japanese perspective, especially with the older generation (say, homegrown and 25yr+), such a stern command as a "NO!" comes across culturally as a reprimand, and when done in public, is at the least, undesirable. One can change the whole social relationship between parties with the use of a firm, public, "NO!", because it's use (such a firm negative answer or command) has a bad connotation in the culture. With the younger generation, you might get away with it without harming your relationship, but those over "undergraduate" age might not be so understanding. Yeah, I know it's crazy, considering what you're trying to accomplish, but it's a totally different world over there.

I'd suggest checking with the local (US) chapter of JNTO. The Japanese National Tourist Organization might be able to refer you to a firearm class based in Japan which might have gun safety instructions/brochures on the internet, printed in the native language. However, you'd have to confirm somehow that what you're printing isn't an application or summary, and is in actuality, a set of gun safety rules.

by the way.... it's roku, shichi (aka, zichi), hachi, gu, ju..... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

Good luck.
 
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I recently attended training for the company I work for and there were employees there from some of our branches overseas; there was a guy from Kazahkstan, a guy from Australia, a guy from Brazil, a guy from the Phillipines. All spoke nearly fluent English. The guy from Kazahkstan had been through their country's mandatory Army service for all males at age 18 and was familiar with Makarovs and AK74's. The Aussie had a small rifle at home for hunting small game but stated that private handgun ownership was illegal. The Brazilian was familiar with weapons and owned a Browning Hipower. The Phillipino had never shot anything before. We had two Americans one from Florida one from California who had both served time one in the Marines the other in the Air Force. I am a reasonably proficient shooter and CCW permit holder from Ohio. We also had two other Americans who had never shot guns before both from Chicago and a guy from Florida who had shot .22 rifles in Boy Scouts.
Looking for something to do in the city we were all in we heard from a local employee that there was a gun range nearby that had an extensive selection of firearms for hire inculding some long guns and a variety of handguns... and if you scheduled in advance they had full autos available as well!

Well long story short we had an abbreviated range safety class in my hotel suite that lasted about an hour, with the military experienced guys and I making everybody understand safety was no joke! Then we piled into 3 cars and hit the range.

Taurus Raging Bull in .44mag
S&W 619 .357
Beretta PT92 9mm semi
Glock 30 .45ACP
SIG 220 .45ACP
Browning Hipower
S&W 99 .45ACP
SIG P239 in 9mm
S&W 4506 .45acp
S&W 686 .357

Each of us bought 2 boxes of ammo (100 rnds total each) and shot them all. The guys who had never handled a handgun before were babysat specifically and carefully. There were no problems except the Korean had a failure to fire the second round in the 4506 and then before we could stop him turned around with the weapon in his hand to ask if NOW was when he should tap rack bang...

Including range and gun time, ammo, ear and eye protection rental, targets, etc we probably spent about $800 total. Spent 3 hours there. Traded guns back and forth so everyone got to shoot everything at least once. Whenever we switched off we would make sure everyone understood the weapons they were using. There was some humorous incidents such as when the Aussie discovered he could shoot better if he had his eyes open when he pulled the trigger....or the Brazilian accidentally blew the crotch out of his sillouhette target. Or the guy from Chicago who with one lucky shot hit right in the center of the x-ring as perfectly as if he measured and punched it by hand! Of course since 18" groups aren't that great the rest of the target looked like crap.... but for one moment he thought he was God...
I was probably the least impressed but had a lot of fun...I mean hey, it was just range time and we had to babysit...not unenjoyable but really just another day at the range... One freedom we take for granted until we spend the time with someone who CAN'T do that...but the guys who never shot before had a whale of a time that they excitedly bragged about the rest of the month we were there! Would I do it again? Absolutely.

My best advice? Have a good solid meeting with them in their native language. It is vital to communicate basic range safety and gun handling to them. Absolutely CRITICAL.
Plan on carefully babysitting them. Don't take your eyes off of them.
Don't let them wander! They are not familiar with range etiquette and may wander off to see what someone else is shooting or take pictures. Be prepared to escort them around.
Choose small calibers and simple guns. Glocks are simple. A 9mm Glock is cheap fun. Or a .38 revolver.
Shoot from the 21-ft line or as close as you can use on the range... It looks better when they can see the target and actually hit it.
If you can take an opportunity to show your visitors the way responsible Americans treat handguns and their use, then you will have that many fewer foriegners who think Americans are cowboys who shoot anything that moves with their dozens of concealed weapons.
 
...here in America... the constitution that grants us certain rights...
Click to expand...
Our Constitution does not grant us rights. It says the government won't take our rights away. This means something else grants us rights.
 
Not entirely true

Quote:

"The Aussie had a small rifle at home for hunting small game but stated that private handgun ownership was illegal."

In Australia despite their ridiculously-restrictive laws a Australian citizen can still own hand-guns,-as they are permitted on a Firearms license, but it is a real pain in the butt, to acquire one.You have to wait 30 months for a black-powder revolver, as poster Adept said, in another post.

Whoever this guy was he either didn't completely know Australia's gun-laws or that he lives in a state which prohibits handgun ownership.But I think that in all Australian states, handgun ownership is still permitted, despite this anti-shooting garbage against shooters-over there.
Its us Brits that can't own standard- handguns anymore and it has been so officially-since February 1998.
 
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Regarding Japanise Gun laws

CUBDRIVER
Despite the severely repulsive restrictions on firearms in Japan,- I saw on a website, which states that their government allows possetion of standard-shotguns and some rifles, but it is a total nightmare in terms of acquiring a license and the storage requirements are ridiculously strict, where they even- YES even require airsoft and pellet-guns to be locked away in a safe/cabinet, or its a criminal offence and the owner could be prosecuted in a court of law.

Also a Japanise citizen WILL (By law) have to provide a map, showing the exact location of their firearm to the police-who will call round unexpectantly to check it out.Please note that they won't bother telling you in advance, when they will pay you a visit.This legislation makes Britain,Canda and Australia look like the state of Texas, compared to Japan-"Land of the rising oppression"-oopps....sorry.....sun.:D :)
 
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Sterling's pretty much balls on, on the possession thing in Japan, with the exception that one must own a shotgun before one can apply for a rifle permit. There's no such thing as a handgun permit. Handguns are completely illegal. It's no wonder the 'serious' crime rate is so low over there that any major 'personal' crime is national news.

Shotguns for sport and hunting are allowed; it takes about 7-12 months to complete the application process. One must take a class and pass a test administered by the prefecture (state) where one resides. As I recall, my friend said there were 100 questions (it might have been 120), and the acceptable failure rate is 5%. That is, one is allowed 5 errors out of 100 questions. Fail and the wait to retest is a calendar year from the first test date. One retest is allowed. Fail again, and it's a life ban. About 80% of the applicants fail. Passing the written allows the applicant to take a firearms course (shotguns or rifles only), and gun-handling and shooting proficiency are analyzed. (I doubt US applicants would do much better under such rigid standards, either.) Once passed, the applicant takes all documentation along with a receipt proving an approved safe has been purchased, to the police, who do a background check on the applicant. Once the background check comes back clean, ALL this documentation is submitted to the government at a national level, as an application for permission to purchase (and/or) import a shotgun for personal use. The restrictions are so great that I couldn't help my friend carry his cased shotgun to the firing line from his car. If caught, I would be in bigtime trouble, and he would lose his gun and license.

In order to apply for a rifle, the entire process is repeated, EXCEPT that one must bring a signed affadavit along with hunting tags, to the police, that show that one has participated in a sanctioned hunt (using shotgun slugs only) for big game--boar, bear, or deer, and successfully bagged one. It is said this process can take between 3-5 years. One application for every firearm desired.

And yes, a map of the firearm storage area is required.
 
Sterling's pretty much balls on, on the possession thing in Japan, with the exception that one must own a shotgun before one can apply for a rifle permit. There's no such thing as a handgun permit. Handguns are completely illegal. It's no wonder the 'serious' crime rate is so low over there that any major 'personal' crime is national news.

Shotguns for sport and hunting are allowed; it takes about 7-12 months to complete the application process. One must take a class and pass a test administered by the prefecture (state) where one resides. As I recall, my friend said there were 100 questions (it might have been 120), and the acceptable failure rate is 5%. That is, one is allowed 5 errors out of 100 questions. Fail and the wait to retest is a calendar year from the first test date. One retest is allowed. Fail again, and it's a life ban. About 80% of the applicants fail. Passing the written allows the applicant to take a firearms course (shotguns or rifles only), and gun-handling and shooting proficiency are analyzed. (I doubt US applicants would do much better under such rigid standards, either.) Once passed, the applicant takes all documentation along with a receipt proving an approved safe has been purchased, to the police, who do a background check on the applicant. Once the background check comes back clean, ALL this documentation is submitted to the government at a national level, as an application for permission to purchase (and/or) import a shotgun for personal use. The restrictions are so great that I couldn't help my friend carry his cased shotgun to the firing line from his car. If caught, I would be in bigtime trouble, and he would lose his gun and license.

In order to apply for a rifle, the entire process is repeated, EXCEPT that one must bring a signed affadavit along with hunting tags, to the police, that show that one has participated in a sanctioned hunt (using shotgun slugs only) for big game--boar, bear, or deer, and successfully bagged one. It is said this process can take between 3-5 years. One application for every firearm desired.

And yes, a map of the firearm storage area is required.
 
I've done some industrial trainng with Asian folks, and quite a bit of firearms training with brand noobies. Most of the Industrial Training was with Vietnamese, and it got a little, er, expensive at times.

If you ask "Do you Understand" 90% of the Asian Immigrants I have dealt with say they do, even if they don't. It was explained to me that saying they don't understand could be a loss of face.

So, don't ask them if they understand. Ask them to show you what you mean, or have them explain it back to you.

I don't know if this is a trait that extends to the Japanese or not, but consider this a warning.
 
Well Im glad I don't live there, despite Japans beautiful scenery

Moredes

In the U.K. a standard single/double-barrelled shotgun is classed as a Section 2 weapon and the license is called a SGC (Shotgun Certificate.).A citizen here can own as many of these as they like-including all crimped,repeating-shotguns and these weapons are easier to obtain than any rifle or uncrimped repeating-shotgun. An individual citizen would have to apply for a FAC (firearm -certificate), -and once got the application-forms provide "good reasons for ownership" in the designated sections.:) :)

I feel very sorry for your friend, because he has to deal with and suffer Japans stupid firearm restrictions.Is he considering moving to the USA or to Europe? An individual who has proven themselves worthy enough-by showing a level of competancey-in the exams and has proven to be a responsible citizen,should be respected and granted a bit of leaway-by their government.:( :( :cuss: :cuss: :banghead:
 
What a shame, at least the Japanese make good rifles

Does anyone here own a Howa semi-auto or bolt-action rifle?
Well if you do,they are good little shooters (In my own opinion) and have produced some good results at the range-but if you look at the Japanise citizen, most of them aren't allowed to own shotguns, rifles-let alone handguns-unless they subject themselves to torturous examinations.Oh please.... two strikes and you are banned for life-if you don't score in the accepted minimum level-in terms of passing these totally insane exams.:what: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Moredes:I think that the Japanese government have a cheek, to allow the Howa company to export their rifles to the USA Europe and to the rest of the world, because if they deny their citizens a fair chance at gun-ownership, then It shows a blatent level of unfairness and It would make me feel uncomfortable to own a gun that was made in Japan-that their own citizens can just about, be legally-permitted to own.

The same could be said about the L1A1 FAL SLRs that used to be sold here on the civillian market, before the infamous Hungerford Massacre-where a loony went ballistic and killed 17 people-including a cop and his own mother.This resulted in the banning of all full-bore SLRs (Both Military and Sporting types.).:cuss: :cuss: :fire: :fire: :mad: :banghead:

How long have L1A1s been imported into the US for?.Iv'e heard that it was up until the mid-80s because the SLR shooters had to either get rid of their legally-owned weapons or get them deactivated-with a certificate in 1988/89, following the government ban. It angers me that the British government has sold L1A1s to scummy African armies, instead of letting honest shooters in the UK, continue to aquire these fine pieces of our heritage.:cuss: :cuss: :banghead: :banghead:
 
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Sterling's pretty much balls on, on the possession thing in Japan, with the exception that one must own a shotgun before one can apply for a rifle permit. There's no such thing as a handgun permit. Handguns are completely illegal. It's no wonder the 'serious' crime rate is so low over there that any major 'personal' crime is national news.
Click to expand...

I have to respectfuly disagree.


Crime is largely a socio-economic and cultural phenomena. If you applied Japan's stringent gun control laws elsewhere (like here in the USA) they'd fail, miserably.

In fact, it's likely they'd make our crime rate worse because the nearly complete abolition of firearms would have the effect of intensifying our existing black market to something more on the level of the organized drug trade.

Currently, because of our "liberal" gun regulations (as compared to other nations, at least) the rare criminal who actualy can't find a firearm on the secondary market, is still only one straw-purchase away from the firearm they desire. This is a good thing. it reduces the profitablity of the firearms black market, and reduces the number of players in it who might otherwise be inclined to commit other criminal or violent acts to protect thier interests.

If the gun laws here were more in line with Japan or the UK, that criminal would still want the gun. What he'd do to get it would simply be different.

- He might patronize a "gun cartel" with it's associated violence to "enforce" it's rule, or as it battles rivals for territory.

- He might commit burglary or strong-arm robbery to gain the funds for the now much more expensive firearm.

- He might ambush an armed police officer to obtain a handgun.

- And once that criminal has the gun, it is a much bigger investment to him, and it may well make him feel all the more "special" as a criminal, i.e. more violent and aggressive.

It may sound trite, but it's true. In essence, Japanese gun control only works because the people who live under it are Japanese.
 
I would just like to point out.....

AJ DUAL

Forget Crime in the UK:
The only reasons why handguns were banned in the UK, is because: Alot of Scottish people objected to civillian- ownership of pistols, after the 1996 Dunblane-Massacre, the government created the ban as a good-will gesture to the people of Dunblane, -because they wanted them to vote for them in the 1997 General election and the public were angered that civillians could own killing-machines, not sensible guns for hunting-purposes.

Unlike in Texas when George Hennard killed those people in Luby's dinner in 1991, alot of Scots wanted handguns gone permanently after Dunblane and those who were members of the anti-gun organizations-are still campaigning for more tighter restrictions on what we have at present.On the other hand Texans think that they feel safer by carrying a concealed pistol as a form of self-defence and they like their guns-as alot of Americans do.:) :)
 
I'm not Japanese, but I grew up in places that totally banned guns, too. One thing I'd recommend before taking your dormmates to the range is to demystify their conceptions about guns. If possible, let them learn how to handle a real gun first while you drum in the safety rules. This should help keep the adrenaline down a little when they get on the firing lane for real.

Of course, keep all ammo out of the vicinity while you're doing lesson #1.

The other thing to remember is that we've learned about guns (and America, for that matter) from Hollywood. One thing you'll need to make clear is to never emulate what Rambo and the Governator did on screen. :cuss:
 
Hello Mike

Mike H

Do you mind if I ask you?:) :)

Which area did you grow up in Mike,that totally banned guns?,because Im interested in finding out which states/counties/districts in different countries around the world are-in terms of their tolerance on firearms.I can start with,whether they are pro or anti-gun.We all know what the UKs political-stance is in terms of views on firearm.
 
I was born in Taiwan and partly raised in the Philippines. Perhaps I exaggerated in saying that those places "totally banned guns". But unless you're powerful and well-connected, it's still a fantasy.

Taiwan does permit private ownership of firearms in theory. Some highlights of the law are:

- Firearms are divided into Class A and B. Class A includes all handguns, military-style rifles, cavalary rifles, and homemade firearms. Class B includes all hunting rifles, air guns, harpoon guns, and other types.
- Permit is required for ownership. Permits are issued on the basis of each individual firearm. Each person cannot more than one one Class A and one Class B firearms. Each household cannot exceed more than 2 of each class.
- Ammo has to be registered. Ammo storage cannot exceed 50 rounds for each handgun, and 100 rounds for each rifle.
- Permit may be withdrawn and the firearm confiscated if the owner is sentenced for a crime or otherwise deemed incapable of firearm ownership.
- The government has the right to commandeer or purchase privately-owned firearms "in the interest of public safety."

Unfortunately, these laws have been suspended by executive order for decades. Aside from a few grandfathered guns, there is virtually no legal firearms in private hands. Shooting clubs and organizations are allowed to keep shotguns and target pistols, but both guns and ammo have to be kept inside the range.

As to the Philippines, I am not too familiar with firearms laws. At least when I lived there from 1979 to 1992, I did not know if there was a legal channel to procure and own firearms. Things seem to have changed as one can obtain a firearms permit after going through the background check and other requirements.
 
Well at least Taiwan has a good selection

Mike H

It seems that despite the restrictions than Taiwan has put on its citizens-in terms of permits-Taiwanese citizens are still allowed to own pistols and assault-rifles, unlike some of us who have succombed to the anti-gun plague.The only drawback here is the restrictions on ammunition, but everything else seemes ok-only if the gun-grabbers are kept away and at bay-which from the sound of things-No chance.

Has any citizen gone crazy in Taiwan and have killed several persons with legally-held firearms, in the history of the country?
If they haven't then watch out for the gun-grabbers, because they will use any excuse to get your citizens guns, like they did to UK and Australian citizens.
 
One thing I should have made clearer is that the law I summarized pretty much exists only on paper. No one has been able to get a permit for decades, and many who had them surrendered their firearms to the government to stay away from the trouble of being subjected to annual inspections by the police, etc.

Legally-owned firearms were involved in some illegal hunting activities, but AFAIK not in any homicide. The black market is abound with guns and ammo of all makes and varieties. Criminal elements need not bother with half-century-old legal firearms at all.
 
I know as well as you do that the black market is awash with illegal weapons-from a whole range of sources and criminals will buy from these sources-but in the UK 2 psychos murdered innocent people in two major gun massacres.The first was a Rambo-type psycho called Micheal Ryan who used his Chinese-Type-56 AK-47,M1-Carbine and Beretta M92fs to shoot up his hometown.He killed 17 people and seriously injured 30 or more others.

He also fired on a police helicopter and nearly downed it, by firing into the engine compartment.It took a whole division of armed detectives with .38 Smith and Wesson revolvers and shotguns-plus a Swat team with various heavy-weapons to contain this psycho-by trapping him in his former school and trying to negotiate with him to surrender.But he didn't want to know and shot himself in the head with his Beretta.

This case was on Infamous Murders on the Discovery channel-so watch it if you get a chance to and you will see what would influence polititions to make major changes in their gun laws.

The second one was a man called Thomas Hamilton, who murdered 16 small children and their teacher at their School in Dumblane Scotland in 1996, before blowing his brains out with one of his .357 revolvers.
 
And also......

The point I was trying to make in my previous post was that,assault-weapons,pistols and other types probably frighten governments because they have a high-rate of firepower and could be easily misused by a looney. When they talk about crime-they mean criminal acts carried out by the owner of the legally-held firearms against his fellow citizen.

This could be the reason why in Taiwan and in Japan and even in the UK, there are heavy-restrictions on firearms and dirty tricks played by the powers-that-be, to discourage gun-ownership.Not always about the concept of tyranny as the NRA and a few other,seem to think.In the UK it was a case of determined citizens challenging polititions with demonstrations and signed-petitions, not the other way around as so many misguided people seem to think-particulary in the USA.It's amazing what public pressure can do,isn't it?Its a shame it didn't have the desired effect on polititions, by those of us who were and are members of the UK shooting-community.We also had our demonstrations, but no one cared

Before I forget, I would like to ask you another question:why is it,that if Taiwan has these laws written down on paper, why do the government choose to ignore the rights of civillians? and what tactics do the cops use on their annual firearm inspections?Do they bully citizens into handing over their guns, or do they use other serious forms of intimidation on people?

Is it because of the above reasons that I have listed?
 
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Quote:Shotguns for sport and hunting are allowed; it takes about 7-12 months to complete the application process. One must take a class and pass a test administered by the prefecture (state) where one resides. As I recall, my friend said there were 100 questions (it might have been 120), and the acceptable failure rate is 5%. That is, one is allowed 5 errors out of 100 questions. Fail and the wait to retest is a calendar year from the first test date. One retest is allowed. Fail again, and it's a life ban. :

Why is it Mordes, that if you fail twice after the second-resit, do the Japanese government mark you as banned for life?In the UK you are only banned for life if you commit a really serious offence such as:Rape,murder,serious-assault(Using a cosh/bat or nightstick),assault with deadly-weapon or if you are a child-molester.

Why is it also, that they only allow a 5% failure rate on that exam? Now this is true tyranny,worse than anything in the UK, but we might be heading towards Japanese-style gun-control, if the UK antis and Liberals had things their own way.

MAN,WHAT A WORLD:cuss: :cuss: :fire: :fire:
 
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