Taking the 1911 dive... on a budget

Status
Not open for further replies.
GunnyUSMC said:
You just need to know what you’re looking at.
Click to expand...
Very true and an excellent point. However, what are the chances a guy who says in his OP...
I've never owned one or shot one.
Click to expand...
knows what he's looking at.

Without shooting it, most folks probably wouldn't be able to identify a problem 1911. If you buy new, you avoid the "kitchen table gunsmith", and you always have a warrantee to fall back on if something happens to be wrong from the factory.
 
BigBL87 said:
This is what worries me about trying something even as simple as sights. That's part of the reason I started looking at the Rock Ultra, as it is basically a ready to go setup for me within my budget.

As far was "wait and save more" that's somewhat difficult as a majority of what I've made is from selling other firearms or accessories, which I'm pretty tapped out on. We have a 10 month old, so spare money in the budget won't go to firearm purchases if and when it exists. I might be able to make a shade over $600, but getting into the $700-800 range or higher isn't happening anytime soon unless I win some money or something.
Click to expand...
Maybe now isn't the time to be buying a 1911, or any other gun for that matter. If money is so tight you can't see being able to set aside a few bucks each week to build up that gun fund you might be better off locking that $600 away for a rainy day. Having small children is expensive and there always seem to be some surprise expense around the corner. Having a bit of money socked away "just in case" is always a good plan. When the time comes that you have some breathing room and can save a little here you go looking to buy your pistol and get something good quality rather than looking at Taurus and Tisa and the like.

Hate to sound like a dad but.... I'm a dad. This is exactly the same advice I gave my son when his daughter was born and recently had the same talk with my son-in-law while waiting for his son to come into the world. 1911s have been around for a long time there will still be some left in a year or two.
 
JTQ said:
Without shooting it, most folks probably wouldn't be able to identify a problem 1911. If you buy new, you avoid the "kitchen table gunsmith", and you always have a warrantee to fall back on if something happens to be wrong from the factory.
Click to expand...
That's a good point- I'm comfortable with firearms, but couldn't tell you offhand if a 1911 is "good" or not.

Ironically, I think going budget/cheap was a stroke of good, blind luck for me.

I bought a used Tisas base model, fullsize with absolutely no frills. Basic military sights, cheap smooth grips, generic matte black paint job, nothing done. I get the impression that someone had this, and rather than bother upgrading, they just traded in to go up the ladder.

So, it's totally stock, and it functions. Only thing I did was buy different grips and some extra mags.

I've seen some guns at shops, things like a Sistema with a different hammer and ambi-safety. I've stayed away from those, since I wouldn't know if the "upgrades" were a mistake or not.
 
BigBL87 said:
This is what worries me about trying something even as simple as sights. That's part of the reason I started looking at the Rock Ultra, as it is basically a ready to go setup for me within my budget.

As far was "wait and save more" that's somewhat difficult as a majority of what I've made is from selling other firearms or accessories, which I'm pretty tapped out on. We have a 10 month old, so spare money in the budget won't go to firearm purchases if and when it exists. I might be able to make a shade over $600, but getting into the $700-800 range or higher isn't happening anytime soon unless I win some money or something.
Click to expand...

If I were you, I would go ahead and buy the Rock Standard model. Get a couple of Wilson Combat 47D magazines for it when they go on sale at Midway (or other on-line vendors) as they do fairly frequently. Then go out and shoot it.

It may not have your exact preference of sights and grips but it will shoot just fine. By all means, apply some florescent enamel to the rear sight dimples and the front sight post if you wish.

In the meantime, you can set a few dollars aside to budget for a new front sight and grips. I already told you were you can buy a good quality fiber optic front sight that will work very well on the Rock Standard with the stock rear sight. I am pretty confident that if you look around a little you will find a gunsmith that would be able and willing to swap the front sight for you for $50 or less. Although they are currently out of stock, Armscor sells some pretty decent double diamond wood grips for the full sized 1911 for $25:

https://advancedtactical.com/produc...911-grips/full-size-double-diamond-wood-grips

This course of action would get you a working pistol with three magazines for less than $500 out of the starting gate, and with the investment of another $100 down the road, you could have wood grips and a fiber optic front sight.
 
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Springfield Range Officer. I've seen them for about $750, and would consider them a safer bet.

Is 1911Tuner still on the board? I wonder what he'd say.
 
RugerOldArmy said:
Admittedly, I saw that.

It is just so much cheaper, and happier, to buy a decent gun, rather than a first gun and a replacement.
Click to expand...

I understand the mindset. I simply look at it like I do with ARs: Noveske, BCM, Daniel Defense are great and if you can afford them that's where I'd point someone. That being said, my PSA build can do everything I need/want it to for a price that fit my budget at the time.

That is to say, I've heard of 1911s with good reputations for under $600 and wanted opinions or other options I'm not aware of. If there really are no quality options under $600, then I don't have to get one, just like I wouldn't buy any of the ARs I see listed under $400.
 
BigBL87 said:
I understand the mindset. I simply look at it like I do with ARs: Noveske, BCM, Daniel Defense are great and if you can afford them that's where I'd point someone. That being said, my PSA build can do everything I need/want it to for a price that fit my budget at the time.

That is to say, I've heard of 1911s with good reputations for under $600 and wanted opinions or other options I'm not aware of. If there really are no quality options under $600, then I don't have to get one, just like I wouldn't buy any of the ARs I see listed under $400.
Click to expand...

It is well-meaning advice. To me,your first 1911 is a bit like losing your virginity. Once you've become accustomed to a 1911 trigger, most every other trigger pales in comparison. The difference is $150, and I think the RO is a pretty sure bet you'd be happy. I've seen several people at the range with them, and they've all been happy.

I'm just giving you my honest opinion, owing you that, not just wanting to tell you what I perceive you may want to hear.
 
GunnyUSMC said:
The Taurus 1911 has more standard features for the money. Bud's has them for $460
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/83802/Firearms/Handguns/Taurus/Taurus+Pistols/Taurus+1911FS+PT1911+8+1+45ACP+5
Click to expand...

Yes, it does. My grandson and I both own one. No problem with either one and they are great right out of the box. I also have a Gold Cup and a RIA. I'll take the Taurus over the RIA any day. If I had to sell any of them the Gold Cup would be last of course but the RIA would go first.
 
WC145 has a good point that 1911 will always be around but if you do not have to conserve the money a RIA will serve you well. I have only had 1911's until recently and it is taking some effort to get use the Glock trigger. I only got the Glock because I wanted more rounds in an easier to carry format.
 
brunowbe said:
Find a gently used Ruger Sr1911 full size 6700. They can be found easily under $600 and still come with Ruger’s lifetime warranty. I bought one NIB and love it. The RIAs are also good guns for the money.
Click to expand...

This is where I would go. Ruger guns are good and they support it forever if you have any issues.

I had a SR1911 CMD that was every bit as good as guns several hundred dollars more.

I've also owned 2 Remington R1s. A standard GI and a widebody Enhanced. Both shoot real good.

Me, sub $1K I'd go Ruger. Over that and I'm gonna go Dan Wesson every time until I get in the semi custom land.
 
I would second the Ruger. Mine has a little over 11,000 trouble free rounds through it now. it's been as close to perfect as I could ask for.

and in the 1k category, I also second Dan Wesson. My Silverback is easily the nicest 1911 I own. I've shot it side by side with a buddy with a baer boss, and we can't tell which one shoots better, or feels better. But my wallet knows!
 
BigBL87 said:
So, the makes/models I'm looking at are (going with 45 ACP):

RIA Rock Standard FS, $428 (I'd probably end up buying a Dawson Precision FO front sight, and heck probably a rear too if I'm going to replace the front. Never installed a handgun sight before so not overly confident in my ability to do that. Most in depth I've done is spring and trigger swap on my Marlin.)

RIA Rock Ultra FS, $529 (Nothing I'd really need to change that I can see)

Remington R1 Enhanced, $579 (Found a site with it for that price, don't know if that will last until I have all the money together though)
Click to expand...

I do not have experience with these models M1911s, but I have a fewM1911s in my safe. I've built a couple from parts and have massaged a couple more to make them work better.

First, budget price M1911s can be good shooters but they may need a little TLC to get the reliability up. I have a Thompson/Auto Ordinance M1911 which benefited from a little polishing here and there. Also, I installed a better barrel which helped with the accuracy of the gun.

Second, get some information on working on M1911s. There are several good books out there. It is good information to have even if you just want to service your M1911 but provides you with a base of information to work from.

Third, if you modify the gun, do it because it provides features that YOU want. Do not expect it to increase the value of the gun. The next owner may not like the "improvement" you have made.

Working on an M1911 is not difficult with the correct knowledge. Good shooters are easy to obtain. But, the folks that provide ultra high accuracy M1911s with the cost to go with it have the knowledge and experience to make some truly exceptional M1911s. Do not expect to duplicate what Les Bear, Wilson, or some others create.

Enjoy your M1911.
 
I think cfullgraf's advice above is quite accurate. With regards to the Rock Island Armory model 1911s, if you research various 1911 forums you will find that the great majority of owners are quite happy with their pistols. But what seems like a significant minority of them had to send their gun back to RIA to get it working just right, or do some work on their own. In my case, early on I had some failures to return to battery and some failures to feed. I found that these issues were virtually resolved by swapping the full-length guide rod for a short GI model, and doing a bit of polishing of the feed ramp, barrel throat, and barrel hood.

Before someone comes along and tells me that I should have just gotten a more expensive pistol from another maker, I have a Springfield Armory model 1911 that has given me vastly more trouble and has had vastly more reliability issues than my RIA. And buying a more expensive pistol does not always guarantee reliability either. I have heard and read numerous accounts from owners of rather pricey Kimbers whose pistols have given them no end of trouble.

Reliability is much more of a concern for a person who plans to use their 1911 for self-defense. Of course, we would all like our pistols to function with absolute reliability all of the time, but the fact is that an occasional failure to feed or stovepipe jam at the range is really not that big a deal, and actually can be helpful in teaching you how to deal with those malfunctions.
 
pblanc said:
I think cfullgraf's advice above is quite accurate. With regards to the Rock Island Armory model 1911s, if you research various 1911 forums you will find that the great majority of owners are quite happy with their pistols. But what seems like a significant minority of them had to send their gun back to RIA to get it working just right, or do some work on their own. In my case, early on I had some failures to return to battery and some failures to feed. I found that these issues were virtually resolved by swapping the full-length guide rod for a short GI model, and doing a bit of polishing of the feed ramp, barrel throat, and barrel hood.

Before someone comes along and tells me that I should have just gotten a more expensive pistol from another maker, I have a Springfield Armory model 1911 that has given me vastly more trouble and has had vastly more reliability issues than my RIA. And buying a more expensive pistol does not always guarantee reliability either. I have heard and read numerous accounts from owners of rather pricey Kimbers whose pistols have given them no end of trouble.

Reliability is much more of a concern for a person who plans to use their 1911 for self-defense. Of course, we would all like our pistols to function with absolute reliability all of the time, but the fact is that an occasional failure to feed or stovepipe jam at the range is really not that big a deal, and actually can be helpful in teaching you how to deal with those malfunctions.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I've read alot of discussions on guide rods and was figuring I'd probably end up swapping to a short GI guide rod eventually.

Absolute reliability isn't a huge deal, as I have a CZ P-07 for home defense and a Shield for carry so my 1911 will be mostly for fun. Of course, a reliable gun is always preferable like you said.
 
My full-size Rock Standard came with a one-piece full-length guide rod. I am pretty sure that the Rock Ultra model has the same. Of course, with a full-length guide rod you need to have an open plug so that the front of the rod has a place to go when the slide recoils back.

The one-piece guide rod does not require a special tool to take the pistol down, but it is still a pain IMO. With a standard closed plug you can push the plug in with your thumb and rotate the barrel bushing. If you do that with the open plug, it feels like you are trying to cut a circle out of your thumb with a cookie cutter. I am sure that some people get good at just pushing down on the edge of the plug with something, but I never did. I usually used a polymer Wilson Combat barrel bushing wrench to depress the plug while turning the bushing, but that requires you to carry the tool with you if you need to disassemble the pistol. I know that some 1911 owners will take down their pistols by pulling the slide back to the disassembly notch without releasing tension on the recoil spring, but I never found that very easy to do either. The open plug also made the pistol much harder to reassemble since the end of the guide rod was not radiused at all, and the end of the rod would consistently hang up on a shelf inside the plug where the diameter abruptly narrowed.

One of the main reasons I replaced the plug and FLGR on my pistol is that I had a suspicion that the recoil spring was binding a bit on the guide rod and contributing to failures to fully return to battery. When I would cycle the slide by hand, there was a point just before it was fully back in battery where I would feel a slight hitch. This persisted even after I polished the guide rod and radiused the forward edges a bit. It went away if I switched to a GI style short rod and closed plug. I can't swear that this was an issue with the failures to return to battery because I did other things as well, like polishing the feed ramp, barrel throat, and barrel hood, as well as shooting a few hundred rounds through the pistol to break it in. But I have yet to read anything that has convinced me of a real benefit to FLGRs, and I much prefer the more traditional look and take down of the original set up.
 
BigBL87 said:
Thanks. I've read alot of discussions on guide rods and was figuring I'd probably end up swapping to a short GI guide rod eventually.
Click to expand...

pblanc said:
I usually used a polymer Wilson Combat barrel bushing wrench to depress the plug while turning the bushing, but that requires you to carry the tool with you if you need to disassemble the pistol.
Click to expand...

The one piece, full length guide rod that I used for a while was easier to take down with a bushing wrench but I was able to do it without if it was required in the field. Some of it depends on how tight the bushing/barrel fit is or the spring rate of the recoil spring.

The two piece, full length guide rod that I have used requires a hex wrench to take down the gun. No way, no how is the gun gong to get disassembled without the hex wrench. (I've never tried removing the slide stop with the recoil spring still in place. I can only imagine that I'd launch the slide and barrel into the next county.:))

I'm sure there are other variations out there as each pistolsmith wanted to put his own spin on the guide rod design.

I cannot say I could tell any difference between using or not using a full length guide rod. Take down is easier with the original short guide rod.

A 1911 bushing wrench is a must have tool if one owns a 1911. It makes removing/installing the barrel bushing easier. The Wilson polymer wrench will not scratch the muzzle end of the slide like a metal wrench might. I do not use one all the time, but the wrench gets used enough that it is better to have than not have. The Wilson wrench cost less than $5.00
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

C
  • Locked
  • Poll
Front sight color preference
Replies
20
Views
1K
45crittergitter
4
WrongHanded
  • Locked
Experience with RIA 1911 10mm?
Replies
11
Views
2K
bikerdoc
bikerdoc
foxmoor
  • Locked
STI Trojan 9mm_FO sight or Tritium?
Replies
6
Views
925
foxmoor
foxmoor
C
  • Locked
preferred sight style
2
Replies
34
Views
1K
1SOW
1
J
  • Locked
XD sight options
Replies
11
Views
902
Detachment Charlie
D
Back
Top