tales of one who DISLIKES kahr

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jlh26oo

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I used to hate kahr.

I bought a new pm9 because of how small and light it was, yet chambered in a sufficient defensive caliber. I didn't listen when the forums warned me, and soon learned why they did. WOW what a poS (is what I thought to myself at the time).

First negative impression came from all the plastic hairs and burrs (almost chunks in some cases) all over the frame, and plastic portions of the rails. Huge mold lines and mold injection button. Very poorly finished. Compared to the dense hard plastic of GLOCK, Kahr's plastic is like clay. Maybe that's why they have to use so much of it (the WALLS of the frame are very thick compared to other polymer frames). Too bad that extra thickness doesn't prevent the soft plastic from getting chewed up as you grind the slide back and forth.

Trigger was smooth and light, but LOOOONG. WIth a LOOOOONG reset. Not great for rapid fire. Hated it.

Of course I had a handfull (ten or twelve) of failure to feeds and failure to fires during the "break in period", a concept completely new to me (kinda spoiled to pistols running straight out of the box).

Then to top it all off, shortly after buying mine, I read the January Handguns magazine article- while praising the pm9, they also admitted that "Kahr's not fooling anyone, the company will flat out tell you the pm9 is a 6,000 round gun". Definition of "carry alot, shoot a little" I guess. Along w/break-in periods, another concept I'm just not down with.

All this for a HIGHER price than my other autos (which I did NOT used to hate).


But now, all that's changed. I realized that while my glocks and rugers cost less, have never had a failure, never needed a breakin period, never grew plastic beards, never need to be dripping in lube in order to run, easier to dissasemble (no tools) and maintain, built of higher quality materials and finished with more attention; I wasn't looking at the big picture: you have to judge the Kahr for what it IS (not for what it's NOT).

Now, I no longer hate kahr. It quit generating plastic hairs at around 500 rounds, and the slide works better. I've gotten used to shooting slower with the long trigger & reset. And apparently Handguns magazine just pulled that whole 6k round report straight out of their cornhole, because I read that someone on the interweb shot 10k rounds through theirs with no problems. And as far as paying more money for a lower quality gun? Well, it wasn't that much more, and at least the profits go somewhere I can feel good about (some type of religious organization I believe).

Anyways, if I can become a reformed Kahr owner, so can anyone. So why buy a BLOCK when you can own a Kahr?!

Picture004.jpg
 
B/C it had Failures to feed, eject, extract, and chamber through 550 rounds and going to the factory 2X.

And their customer service SUX!


I will NEVER buy another Kahr!
 
B/C it had Failures to feed, eject, extract, and chamber through 550 rounds and going to the factory 2X.

And their customer service SUX!


I will NEVER buy another Kahr!


I know, I know- it's rough going at first. But it's not until you GET to 500 rounds before things start to turn around. You were almost there!

Just wait, you'll eventually buy another Kahr, and LOVE it. You'll see.
 
Yea, THAT's why it kept jamming through rounds 501-550!

And THAT's why they talked to me like I was a MORON the first time I sent the pistol to them.

AND THAT's why it STILL didn't work when they sent it back!

And THAT'S why they tried to tell me it was fixed when I called them about it and I had to keep going up the food chain till I FINALLY got someone with a brain and THAT only happened when I told them I was gonna post how they handled me FAR and wide on the net.

And THAT's why it STILL didn't work after they 'worked' on it the SECOND time!

Sold it... will NOT do as you say!
 
Yea, THAT's why it kept jamming through rounds 501-550!

And THAT's why they talked to me like I was a MORON the first time I sent the pistol to them.

AND THAT's why it STILL didn't work when they sent it back!

And THAT'S why they tried to tell me it was fixed when I called them about it and I had to keep going up the food chain till I FINALLY got someone with a brain and THAT only happened when I told them I was gonna post how they handled me FAR and wide on the net.

And THAT's why it STILL didn't work after they 'worked' on it the SECOND time!

Sold it... will NOT do as you say!


Ok, ok. Fair enough. It IS possible however that you just got a lemon, and another kahr would be as good as mine. But I can understand being hesitant to give them another chance.

And sorry to hear about your customer service experience. No one should be treated like a moron. Were you nice to them on the phone, or did you let your frustration manifest in your tone? Not that it should matter- I mean, two trips back and forth, they should have fixed it. I just find that results from ANY customer service department can vary dramatically in how you talk to them, ymmv. Did they cover shipping both ways, each time at least?

And what'd you replace the kahr with btw?
 
I am always polite... not the person's answering the phone's fault.
(And I've talked to MANY people with problems like mine... probably the other way around.)

I had to pay for shipping, TOTALLY unsadisfactory service. I feel like I just threw away 500+ rounds. (And about $100) (Had MANY more jams than you... can't even begin to count/guess how many.)
-Like I said.. NEVER from them... Even to include Auto Ordanance... They BURNED that bridge!

S&W .357 Bodyguard I was carrying before... it works.

BTW, for the price you should not have to go through that many rounds. (To be 'as good as yours.') I paid for more... Heck, I got better out of a $200 Kel Tec!
 
IMO, Taurus's PT-111 Pro is a much better pistol and at a lesser cost too. Also, the trigger pull is short, not long like you have described.

111SSP-12.jpg
 
Yeah no doubt GLOCK is still my favorite by far. Everything just runs 100% right out of the box. Even bought the "problem child" of the GLOCK line, and it too was nothing short of perfect.

Just two different animals, really. Kahr can't do what GLOCK can (run 100% from go, absolutely reliable and durable, at a lower price); but OTOH, neither can a GLOCK do what a Kahr does (not quite as small and light).

Room for both in my bag.
 
the "problem child" of the GLOCK line




the 36 ?? how ya like it ? carry well ? shoot well ? compaired to the 26 ? next gun show I'll be eyeballin one of those babies , would like one in OD , but I haven't seen one yet .
 
I too had the exact same experience with my Kahr PM9.. shipped back to Kahr.. TWICE because they even forgot to install the Trijicon night sights i payed for (they didnt forget to charge me though). I spent alot of money on shipping, but i didnt mind because i got the gun for $530 out the door because a local shop owner was retiring and clearing out the shop.

The first problem i had was when i pulled the trigger, sometimes it wouldn't go bang. I'd keep pulling it and i'd get a surprise BANG and a bullet would fly towards the target. The trigger failed to reset fully. This is why i sent it back to Kahr actually. I had FTFs at least once per mag. I got fed up after only a few hundred rounds, and I sold it for $350 about a month after i bought it.

As for fit and finish, the metal parts of the gun were amazing. Super tight fight.. everywhere. Excellent machining and fit/finish. I am certain that the only reason the gun wasn't reliable was because of these extremely tight tolerances that Kahr is known and praised for. I really should have given it a real break in before i sold it, but I just lost my patience. The plastic, however, was crap. I too noticed the softness and the "hairs."

Now what scares me is that even though I had all these problems, I have this urge to give it another shot with Kahr. Their guns are just too damn concealable to turn away from. I have tried carrying other guns from a G27 to an XDsc to a J-frame snub. Nothing is as enjoyable to carry as my Kahr was. Even though I didn't trust the gun for anything, I admit i took it out on my waistband a few times to see how i liked carrying it (in less threatening environments where i felt i didnt even need a gun on me). It was awesome. Knowing I had a significant caliber in a package so little, ergonomic, and light-weight made carrying that thing so enjoyable.

I am really considering buying another Kahr, but most likely the P series and not the PM. I'd rather have that extra half inch of barrel and a full grip over the even more compact PM model. Even the P series are MUCH smaller(especially thickness which makes the biggest difference IMO), lighter, and more compact than a G27/XDsc sized gun. Everything about the gun except the fact that its not reliable out of the box is so attractive that i might give Kahr another shot, but reliability is everything so it would be a gamble for sure.. one that i MIGHT be willing to take again. We'll see.
 
lol how'd you guess?

Yep, despite all the negative reports, MINE is just as reliable as any other GLOCK, even more accurate than my 34, and handles very smoothly. Love it.

vs. the 26, I dunno man that's a tossup. Just depends on how comfortable you are w/6+1 capacity vs 10+1, balanced against how comfortable you are w/9mm vs .45acp. 36 is a little longer than the 26, but the same weight and actually is a tad bit slimmer (ironic that it's the thinnest glock yet chambered in their fattest caliber), arguable either way which is more concealable. iwb, thin is key.

I think my most favorite thing about the 36 vs every other GLOCK is the shape (which some hate). In the grip, it's longer front to back, but thinner in width because of single stack (and single stack + .45acp = leave your mag loader at home, because they are thumb loading friendly). And there is no "ridge" at the seam of the frame and slide (you know how on 26/19/17etc the frame swells out thicker than the slide? the 36 is flush, flat there). Check this pic out and you'll see what I mean (this is not mine, I'm sorry I don't know who to credit for this one. just a nice pic of a 36).

36 is a winner man, provided you get one that works.

g36_6034.jpg
 
I carry a G19 mag with the A&G extention sometimes when clothing permits so its 15 + 1 ( when possible ) that's tough to beat but I like the idea of the slim 45 for special occasions . thanks :D
 
CPshooter said:
I too had the exact same experience with my Kahr PM9.. shipped back to Kahr.. TWICE because they even forgot to install the Trijicon night sights i payed for (they didnt forget to charge me though). I spent alot of money on shipping, but i didnt mind because i got the gun for $530 out the door because a local shop owner was retiring and clearing out the shop.

The first problem i had was when i pulled the trigger, sometimes it wouldn't go bang. I'd keep pulling it and i'd get a surprise BANG and a bullet would fly towards the target. The trigger failed to reset fully. This is why i sent it back to Kahr actually. I had FTFs at least once per mag. I got fed up after only a few hundred rounds, and I sold it for $350 about a month after i bought it.

As for fit and finish, the metal parts of the gun were amazing. Super tight fight.. everywhere. Excellent machining and fit/finish. I am certain that the only reason the gun wasn't reliable was because of these extremely tight tolerances that Kahr is known and praised for. I really should have given it a real break in before i sold it, but I just lost my patience. The plastic, however, was crap. I too noticed the softness and the "hairs."

Now what scares me is that even though I had all these problems, I have this urge to give it another shot with Kahr. Their guns are just too damn concealable to turn away from. I have tried carrying other guns from a G27 to an XDsc to a J-frame snub. Nothing is as enjoyable to carry as my Kahr was. Even though I didn't trust the gun for anything, I admit i took it out on my waistband a few times to see how i liked carrying it (in less threatening environments where i felt i didnt even need a gun on me). It was awesome. Knowing I had a significant caliber in a package so little, ergonomic, and light-weight made carrying that thing so enjoyable.

I am really considering buying another Kahr, but most likely the P series and not the PM. I'd rather have that extra half inch of barrel and a full grip over the even more compact PM model. Even the P series are MUCH smaller(especially thickness which makes the biggest difference IMO), lighter, and more compact than a G27/XDsc sized gun. Everything about the gun except the fact that its not reliable out of the box is so attractive that i might give Kahr another shot, but reliability is everything so it would be a gamble for sure.. one that i MIGHT be willing to take again. We'll see.
Now that's just plain LAZY! (them not putting on your night sights). Yeah, I'd give the P series a chance. Still has the weight and slimness advantage of pm9, with a grip you can get all your fingers on. Glad to know someone else knows what I'm talking about with the plastic hairs, had never seen the likes of it before. They do get smoothed away in time though. Still, should come finished a little smoother from the start for what you pay imo, or just use the same plastic that GLOCK does, if they legally can (but probably proprietary).




glocktoberfest said:
I carry a G19 mag with the A&G extention sometimes when clothing permits so its 15 + 1 ( when possible ) that's tough to beat but I like the idea of the slim 45 for special occasions .
Yeah, I'd stick with the 19. Probably the best all around GLOCK period (I thought you meant compare the 36 to the 26).
 
Wow, what a sharp contrast to my experience with an MK9 all steel and your PM9. My experience in dealing with Kahr customer service (Dottie) has been nothing but exceptional.

I purchased an MK 9 (Box) stainless frame/molly slide new in January this year. Have put over 1200 rounds through it without one single significant failure. I’ll mention more about the failure in a minute. I’ve used basically nothing but the cheaper ammo like S&B, Winchester white box and Remington UMC through it and it eats it up as fast as I can pull the trigger. I’ve also tried HPs from 115gr to 147gr and still no failures.

Tightening the #8 torques head screw that retains the slide stop spring quickly solved the only real functional problem I’ve had. When it became slightly loose the slide would stick back before the magazine was empty. Just dropped the slide and it would keep going. Kahr is sending me a couple new springs anyway.

I purchased this gun new at a local gun store for $500.00 out the door. It had a bit of shelf ware or insignificant handling dings on the slide and the sights. The dealer told me they had it around for a while and it had been to a number of gun shows. Since I was buying it to carry and shoot a lot I really didn’t care about the cosmetics and felt the price was pretty good.

On very close inspection with a bore light after I had fired it and clean it several times I discovered a small imperfection /deeper scratch perpendicular to one of the lands. I spoke with Dottie at Kahr and was told to send them the slide and barrel assembly along with a note and they would take care of it. In the note I also expressed my desire for their stainless recoil spring assembly and ask if they could touch up the cosmetics. I told them since I knew of the dings when I bought the gun I would be glad to pay for the latter. I did have to pay the freight out but because it wasn’t the complete gun it only cost me $8.00.

I figured I wouldn’t see it back for a month and boy was that thinking wrong. 6 days latter I had it back. Kahr had replaced the barrel, the sights, installed a complete new recoil spring assembly and touched up the slide. All at no charge and they paid the freight back, overnight express, to me. Since it was just a slide barrel assembly they could have just sent it back snail mail.

Sorry to here about all the problems you’ve experienced with your PM9. If mine had taken 500 rounds to break it in it would already be gone. I don’t think I would have cared much for the plastic chunks coming off the frame during the break in either.


mk9-3.jpg

mk9-1.jpg
 
Kahr still has some real kinks to work out. I had an MK9, which was a great shooter.

Until the slide cracked at 600 rounds. I called, and they told me to send it back (on my dime). Then I waited. And waited. Dottie doesn't like to return phone calls or emails (and I was paying; they don't have a 1-800 number). When I finally caught her in the office by chance, she was very brusque and informed me that they didn't have replacement slides at the moment. It would be at least two months before they could get it fixed.

This was after they'd already had it 7 weeks. I bit my tongue and waited the two months. Nothing. Another round of unreturned phone calls over a two-week period. When I got ahold of her again, she told me they'd just have to replace the entire gun.

That's fine, but why did it take almost five months to make this determination? Couldn't they have just replaced it outright?

Anyhow, they dragged their feet for another two weeks before sending it out to my FFL. We're talking about SIX MONTHS it took to replace a defective item.

The replacement was unacceptable. The slide/frame fit was extremely loose, and I noticed that the barrel/slide fit was also quite loose. I took it apart, and there were tooling marks and rough edges all over the inside (something I'd not seen in the first one). I decided to shoot it to see if it ran OK.

It wouldn't group at all (most likely the loose barrel fit), and the last two rounds out of each mag failed to go into battery every time. I realized that if I wanted it fixed, it'd likely take another six months. No thanks.

I ended up selling (at a loss) to a friend who didn't mind doing some of his own work on it. Needless to say, I'm not the only person who's found them unacceptable.

Some folks have had great experiences with Kahr. Many have had flawless products. It may be that their customer service runs hot/cold. In any case, I'm steering clear. It's a shame, because that first MK9 was a sweet shooter. :(
 
Eric F – How long ago did you have these problems? What do you think caused the slide to crack? I guess I had better be counting my blessings. It’s starting to look like my experience may be an exception not the rule. If they couldn’t fix your gun within 30-35 days or less they should have just replaced it. And then to not have it shoot correctly when you got it back is totally unacceptable. Even though I’m extremely happy with the one I have I do believe I’ve read enough negative input to make me seriously consider the one I have being my only one.

I’m going to keep shooting it weekly. If anything ugly surfaces I’ll post it on a new thread.
 
Eric F – How long ago did you have these problems? What do you think caused the slide to crack?
Dottie told me it was a "one in a million" defect, and that she had only seen it happen six or seven times. This was all about 2.5yrs ago.
 
I have a PM 40. It has had problems. My dealings with Dottie at Kahr have been positive.

My gun would fail to return to battery, even after the break in period. I returned it to Kahr; it came back in 14 days with a new slide and barrel.

When it came back, the magazine follower on the 5 round magazine broke. My slide would lock back with rounds remaining in the magazine. Both issues were promply resolved by Dottie-3 new mag followers in the mail, and 3 new slide stop springs. (The slide locking back was caused by a bend slide stop spring, which was due to my improper reassembly.)

Dottie send me a new mag when the 5 rounder quit feeding reliably.

My gun seems to work 100% now, (the mag follower on the 6 round mag broke on my most recent range session, but I have another to replace it.)

I am sure that the polymer Kahrs have issues, but I have had great customer service from Dottie. If you want the smallest, lightest .40 or 9mm carry gun on the market, the Kahr is it. You might have to work with it to get it to function- I think it is only fair to advise this when recommending the gun. You would not have to include this caveat if recommending a S&W J frame, or a baby Glock.
 
Ive had one good and one bad Kahr.

PM40 that sheared off the magazine catch on the 3rd magazine, Im only assuming that was the problem. It would NOT keep a magazine in the firearm but the dealer took it back.

I got a MK40 the next time. Paid $525 with night sights. Shot about 200 rounds thru it, all trouble free. Then I traded it. The damn thing was just to heavy.

The steel guns are more reliable, but to heavy. The plastic guns are great to carry, just not trustworthy.

They dont make a gun Im interested in.
 
I can't speak for the super compact versions, but I had a K9 that worked like a top from the day I got it (used) to the day I sold it (because I couldn't get used to the trigger). The size and grip were ideal, and the gun was consistently accurate. I didn't even lube it that much.

jm
 
Yeah, looks like their steel guns have a better record of success, but just defeat the whole purpose of going kahr in the first place when they take you right back to BLOCK weights. Kind of leaves you back at square one.

I think jayp summed it up well:

If you want the smallest, lightest .40 or 9mm carry gun on the market, the Kahr is it. You might have to work with it to get it to function- I think it is only fair to advise this when recommending the gun. You would not have to include this caveat if recommending a S&W J frame, or a baby Glock.
 
Why am I not having problems??

I just can't figure it out -- I bought a CW9 to use when I find it inconvenient to carry my 1911. I had some FTF's in the first few hundred rounds but since then it has been flawless. It shoots dead on point of aim, trigger is smooth, feeds my carry ammo (Gold Dot 124gr. SB) without a hiccup. WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY GUN???:confused:
 
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