Taliban Marksmanship in the NYTimes

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ChristopherG

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An interesting article in the Times's Blog, "At War," about marksmanship issues among Taliban fighters and the effect it has on their tactics and our troops:

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/02/the-weakness-of-taliban-marksmanship/

When discussing issues of marksmanship that would be considered basic by many here, the author gives a nod to his gun-savvy readers and acknowledges that he is educating a largely gun-illiterate crowd in the Times's readership. That's nice to see.

Hope some of you find it as interesting as I did; I'll need to look further into this guy's Times blog.
 
I saw the article as well in today's Times, was about to post it when I saw your post.

Also interesting are the weapons that were captured, including a single shot shotgun with a folding stock. Hard to imagine going to all that trouble for a single shot combat gun.

Good analysis of the reasons for their marksmanship problems.
 
Nice article. I've read similar things elswhwere. I think it is interesting to watch guys at the range and guage thier markmanship training. It is easy to see those who have not been trained, those who have had training and blown it off/forgotten it, and those who have been trained, taken it to heart and can really shoot.
 
Wow, so Ahmed now has a source for after action reports? Am I reading this wrong? A good intel gummy can see the large picture from many disparate, small pieces of info.
 
Wow, so Ahmed now has a source for after action reports?

They always have. They talk about contacts afterwards, what went right, what went wrong, and they change their TTPs. They don't just head straight back to their hooch and get on their Playstations; they learn how to do things better and they practice it. It's one of the crappy things I've noticed about US troops while deployed. We don't want to train. It's almost impossible to get your guys up and at least whiteboard scenarios, even when you've got a very low op tempo.
 
quote: "It's almost impossible to get your guys up and at least whiteboard scenarios, even when you've got a very low op tempo."

You'd think this would be a job requirement.
Or that they'd have the sense to realize that perfecting their contact skills through training/whiteboarding will help keep them alive.

Or maybe the PS games are good training????
 
What I got out of this is the US needs some type of portable shield/defense so they don't have to dive on top of IEDs
 
You'd think this would be a job requirement.
Or that they'd have the sense to realize that perfecting their contact skills through training/whiteboarding will help keep them alive.

Or maybe the PS games are good training????
You'd think. I hate getting up early and doing it too, but it's much easier hashing it all out on a whiteboard and then practicing it than it is to figure it out on the side of road somewhere.
 
What I meant was that here is another example of the NYT giving info to the other side. Now they know why they miss so much. Am I the only one who sees it like that? Maybe it's my 30 years of working in theaters all over the world. There are so many different countries that are muslim so we just started to call all muslim BG's Ahmed.
 
What I meant was that here is another example of the NYT giving info to the other side.

Yeah, like there's anything in that article that the Afghanis don't already know: 'Gee, Americans, thanks for letting me know I have a crappy gun and pathetic ammunition. I'll get right on that.'

What's more interesting is this section:
For all of their shortcomings, the Taliban’s level of training and state of equipment have thus far been more than sufficient for waging a patient, low-intensity war for years, and for fighting Afghan government forces, which exhibit similar skill deficiencies.

Sometimes, when there's talk about an armed American populace helping to keep our government in check, people say, "Well what are you gonna do? How can you fight tanks and helicopters, huh?"

As we see in both Afghanistan and Iraq, the defenders do not require massive amounts of firepower. Even with poor weapons and little training, they can resist invaders quite well. Many of us have some of the best firearms money can buy and have superb ammunition. As a resistance force, the average American city could put up tremendous resistance against ground forces.
 
Yeah, the Taliban can read this article.
Don't think it'll change their marksmanship much even if they tried to fix all their deficiencies.

How long has the Pentagon been hearing about the "inadequacy" of the M16/M4? 40 years? Hasn't changed our side much. And we're a rich army.
 
I'm stocking up on old socks for sticky bombs to use against tanks in case socks are banned by the UN treaty. If socks are outlawed, only outlaws will have socks.


Sometimes, when there's talk about an armed American populace helping to keep our government in check, people say, "Well what are you gonna do? How can you fight tanks and helicopters,huh?"
 
They have some very well trained and skilled fighters. Both local, and some come from outside with previous combat experience in Iraq, or Chechnya, or some nations that offer the type of training once available in the Afghan camps (before they became prime air targets.)
They also have a lot of green volunteers with limited skill who take a rifle and use it to take pot shots at the military. They have little skill but a lot of dislike for the occupying non-Muslim force. If they don't die early on they will get better. Don't underestimate the enemy.

In many ways the noted lack of skill is because of the size of the opposition. The majority of the fighters are random volunteers. If you took random volunteers from the US and had them taking shots at say an occupying force of Chinese, they would probably not be that much better on average.




The Taliban has had some serious victories in the region in the last couple years. So much so that the strategy was revised. Many rural outposts abandoned, and the focus shifting to control of major population centers.
You can call it a tactical repositioning or something else, but it was a retreat from high risk areas that offered minimal gains. Coalition forces are just attacking some of those places again this year.

They also engage coalition forces from well beyond typical ranges of an iron sighted rifle. Engaging in a firefight with much better equipped coalition forces is a quick way to lose a lot of men. Even if they begin to gain the upper hand artillery or air power can be brought in against them.
Instead they rely on asymmetrical warfare. Using booby traps and ambushes. When attacked directly the only smart thing for an under equipped insurgent to do facing the full military might of the world is retreat. Let the advancing soldiers blow themselves up on various traps, and then wait them out. They can only occupy so much area at a time, and when they leave new traps will be placed and the insurgents can move right back in. Only to retreat once more if attacked.

If they actually engage coalition forces it plays right into coalition hands. They take heavy losses for minimal gains facing the most powerful military forces in the world. Exactly what coalition forces want. Instead they want to use attrition, slowly taking dozens of coalition lives with booby traps, mines, roadside bombs, and the occasional ambush on vulnerable targets.


So those taking pot shots are by definition the least methodical, least trained in how to win the fight against coalition forces. They are the least skilled in asymmetrical warfare. As a result they are likely to be some of the least trained in how to shoot as well. Those who are well trained, and likely can shoot well know that it is not a war they will win shooting small arms at the most powerful military force on the planet.
Coalition forces actually want them to shoot at the Marines when they are sent in, so they can take out the insurgents while they have the forces and firepower massed in the area!
The insurgents that actually do so are those who are less strategic, and often less trained.


would that their aim of those rpg's was as bad.
They are better with RPGs because the people actually shooting RPGs are typically better skilled, because an RPG attack/ambush and retreat actually is a viable asymmetrical tactic used by a skilled combatant. Unlike pot shots with a rifle from far away using iron sights against forces in heavy body armor.
So many of those using the RPGs actually are moderately skilled forces, unlike the random villager taking pot shots at coalition forces with a rifle.
Anyone who takes shots at coalition forces is labeled as belonging to the insurgency, when often times they don't and are just some civilian (especially in rural tribal areas with hatred for such forces), that decided to shoot at the non-Muslim occupying force.
 
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I'm stocking up on old socks for sticky bombs to use against tanks in case socks are banned by the UN treaty. If socks are outlawed, only outlaws will have socks.
God that is funny. But what about the axle grease?
 
They don't have internet? Ever heard of Thuraya? There are at least 2 direct access satellites in the region. Buy your lack of knowledge of your enemy, you have already lost.

Most of the comments are from people who know NOTHING about intel in the region. There are primitive conditions and most people are primitive. Unless you have lived with them (indiginous) you only see them as primitive. The lack of material makes them that much more ingenious and dangerous. Most of all electronics com throu Pakistan. Have you ever been to the souks there? I can buy buy the latest cpu's, memory or what ever you need. Holy Moly, you people need to really expand your horizons. Or quit armchair q'backing.

One of the first things you learn is your small piece of info gets mated with another, and another and next thing you know, you have a "target"
 
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