Tanker Enfield

[Mumbles_45]

I just came across (and bought) a fairly short Enfield. The only description on the tag was "tanker enfield, .308. It looks like a No. 1 Mk III only shorter, but not cut down like the No. 5s. It's not currently in my possesion so I can't say too much more about it, it had something wrong with the firing pin, but they are fixing that for free.

I bought it because I like Enfields, I like short rifles, and I like .308. Other than that I know nothing about it. Is a "tanker enfield" in .308 an actuall variation, or is it just a bubba-ing? I remember hearing something about there being no such thing as a true tanker enfield, they were all just hack jobs, some better than others, or maybe that was tanker Garands.

I'd be interested in any info on this rifle. I looked at surplus rifle but didn't see anything there, and I searched through THR, but couldn't find anything other than brief mentions.

 

[Limeyfellow]

They were made by Gibbs and a few others a few decades ago by cutting down Indian 2a and 2a1 Lee Enfields into the shorter length and a few cosmetic changes done to them. They work fairly well as shooters, but its just an aftermarket conversion done by a company.

 

[DMK]

It's a hack job, likely a professionally done one. Probably done by Navy Arms or Gibbs.

http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/~stratton/en-page/fakes.htm

 

[Mumbles_45]

Thanks for the quick responses.

 

[Hoppy590]

anlmost anytime some one says "tanker" assume "hack job"

i dont understand where this "tanker" term comes from. obviously a piss poor substitution for "carbine", and i know people like to claim they were for tank crews, but im unaware of a single "tanker" that is an actual military rifle. and not a sales pitch. do people know that "tankers" arnt actual military rifles? im lost on this.

is "tanker" just a sales term for hacked rifles?

 

[nra_fore_ever]

I picked up a Gibbs rifle last year and further bastardized it. They're good shooters. Does yours have a flash hider? If so get rid of it. They're prone to just fly off. Get one threaded on.

 

[DMK]

i dont understand where this "tanker" term comes from. obviously a piss poor substitution for "carbine", and i know people like to claim they were for tank crews, but im unaware of a single "tanker" that is an actual military rifle. and not a sales pitch. do people know that "tankers" arnt actual military rifles? im lost on this.

You are absolutely right.

It's a term that ranks up there with Mil Spec and Tactical as noise to be filtered out.

While the US did consider a Garand Carbine and the Australians did consider an Enfield carbine. I don't believe these were ever referred to as 'Tankers' in development.

 

[Limeyfellow]

Part of it also comes from the US naming convention beginning at the time with a T for trial. The shortened Garands where given the designation T26 and somewhere along the line someone did naughty stuff and tried to pass it off as meaning Tanker, since Patton had requested in late 44 for a shortened Garand for use with tank units.

The shorter Lee Enfields Austrailia put out were given the title of No6 mk1 rifles and were based on the British No5 carbine. These never got out of trials but were basically a shortened down. The Aussie version was built on the No1, since they never adopted the No4 design at the Lithgow plant. Afterwards a number of companies made up fake No6s (and plenty of No5s too) and tried to pass them off as authentic but your simply not going to find an original No6 outside a museum.

No one in the commonwealth invested in a carbine version in 7.62mm and thats all aftermarket modifications. However there are plenty of different trials and modifications of the full length rifles. The most common where the Indian made Ishapore 2a and 2a1 and thats what alot of companies used to modify into a .308 carbine most time.

Gibbs and Navy Army and the various other companies did a really naff job of putting on the cone flash hider and they make pretty nasty projectiles.

This is also why you have to be careful buying Lee Enfield carbines because alot of them are fake. Pretty easy to modify though and make a lookalike copy.

 

[wcwhitey]

I may be way off here, but! I was under the impression that the term "Tanker" originated with Patton's request for a shortened version of the Garand he was so impressed with for Tank Crewman. It was supposed to be a Tanker's Carbine. I agree that the name has taken on a life of it's own.

 

[wcwhitey]

I owe Limey a beer, cheers mate, beat me to it. Bill

 

[chestnut ridge]

Scope Mount? for Ishapore 2a rifle

What mounts are currently available for this 308 rifle? I would
like a side mount arrangement similar to the St Marie mount made
for the K-31. The scout scope mount is not my favorite.

 

[Hoppy590]

i was aware of australias carbine thanks to a article in American Rifleman. (dont have it here, so cant site the date, but it was recent. a month or two ago)

i had heard about pattons request, as part of the exlination. but never knew of the T for trial designation.

thanks guys

 

[44AMP]

T for "tanker"

T for tanker is just BS. But it is BS that has taken on a life of it's own. To the best of my knowledge there has never been a "Tanker" model rifle used by the US military. I don't think any other countries used one either, but I am not certain on that.

"T" is the designation used by the Army for test rifles that are not adopted as service arms. The Army went from T20 to T44 designating rifles used during the developement of the M14.

General Patton may well have asked for a shortened M1 Garand, for use by his tankers, but he never got it. The closest thing I can find to a "tanker" Garand is the T26 rifle.

"T26 Rifle. In July 1945 the Pacific Theater of Operations requested 25,000 shortened M1 rifles. To meet this requirement the M1E5 barreled action was fitted with a standard M1 stock. An order for 15,000 of these rifles was given but was cancelled in August 1945."

The M1E5 was a shortened version of the M1 using a pantograph-type folding stock. The barrel was 18 inches long and, although the accuracy was comparable to the M1 at ranges up to 300 yards, blast and muzzle flash were excessive. - Small Arms of the World 10th Edition (Smith&Smith)

 

[Hoppy590]

anyone got a pic of this M1E5

 

[Limeyfellow]

You can see an M1E5 at the Springfield Armory museum, but heres a photo in the meantime.

The top one is a T26 the bottom one of the M1E5s. I would imagine it have some kick to it.

 

[Hoppy590]

hmm. il have to go back to the SA soon. i dont remmeber it. ( live near springfield)

 

[Mumbles_45]

The stock on that M1E5 certainly looks uncomfortable and flimsy, and that pistol grip just looks rediculous.

I took the new Enfield to the range yesterday and it didn't go to well. The second round caused half the wood - everything forward of the barrel band to fall off, so I put it back together, and tried again, thinking that maybe it wasn't put together right the first time and I didn't notice, but the same thing happened, everything fell off on the second round. Also it would't feed consistently at all, the bolt was just sliding over the top of the rounds on the left side of the magazine, and when it did catch them it would force them out the side of the action instead of into the chamber. So anyway, I took it home, gorrilla glued the two bottom pieces of wood together and did some bending on the magazine's lips. It feeds perfectly now, and tomorrow I'll find out if it can hold itself together for maybe a full magazine.