Taser abuse

[kola]

I do not believe any type of REAL discussion can be done when moderators cherry-pick, delete sentences or remove entire posts.

As America slowly turns into a police state I am not surprised to see it infiltrate here and witness biased actions, gag orders and cover-ups on a gun forum that SEEMS to promote Constitutional rights.

Shall I shut up to avoid a SWAT team kicking in my door for being a "combatant resistor".



Kola

 

[kola]

Many posters have made the claim that "taser don't kill".

It seems to be an incorrect and misleading statement.

Does anyone care to explain this?

----------------------------------------------------
Autopsy links another death to Taser
Maker says stun gun not responsible for '02 Alabama fatality

Robert Anglen
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 6, 2004 12:00 AM

An Alabama medical examiner cited electrical shock from a Taser stun gun as a cause in the death of a mental patient two years ago.

It is the sixth death that an Arizona Republic investigation has linked to the stun gun. The Scottsdale manufacturer claims that Tasers have never caused a death or injury.

LeRoy Riddick, Alabama regional medical examiner, reported in a June 28, 2002, autopsy that Clever Craig Jr., 46, died of a heart attack during an episode of delirium "following electrical shock from Taser while resisting arrest." advertisement

It marks the fourth case in which a medical examiner has cited Taser as a cause or a contributing factor in the death of a suspect in police custody. In two other cases, medical examiners said the stun gun could not be ruled out as a cause of death.

Officials with Taser International Inc. said other medical experts who reviewed Craig's case this week found Taser played no part in his death.

"We haven't seen anything that fits electrical death," Taser Chief Executive Officer Rick Smith said. The report, he said, "is more descriptive in nature than causal."

The Taser stun gun is marketed as an alternative to deadly force and is used by more than 5,000 law enforcement agencies, including every major police department in the Valley.

For years, Taser has cited autopsy reports and medical examiner findings as proof that the gun never caused an injury or death.

The Republic found that Taser did not possess those autopsy reports. Instead, it relied on anecdotal information from police and media accounts.

In a report on Craig's death, Taser officials stated that he died of heart disease.

"Oral discussions with (police) departmental personnel indicate cause of death was cardiovascular bivalve heart disease," Taser reported. "One valve was bad. With the struggle, the cardiovascular collapse caused the death. No final report available."

Smith has rejected the findings in each of the cases linking Taser to a death, saying medical examiners are generalists who don't have the expertise to examine fatalities following a shock from a stun gun. He said deaths would have occurred with or without the stun gun, a result of pre-existing health conditions and drug intoxication. Unlike the other five cases, Craig's autopsy revealed no traces of opiates, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, amphetamines or cocaine.

Taser did not have a copy of Craig's autopsy until The Republic provided it this week.

The newspaper has identified 44 cases in the United States and Canada of death following a police Taser strike from September 1999 to March 2004. Using public-records laws, the newspaper has requested autopsy reports for each case and has obtained 23.

Riddick wrote that when Craig was shocked, the man was suffering from excited delirium, a state in which suspects work themselves into a frenzy during confrontations with police. Riddick concluded that the death was a homicide. He could not be reached for comment this week.

Craig, a paranoid schizophrenic, died June 28, 2002.

Relatives called 911 around 4 a.m. to report that Craig was acting strangely. When police arrived, they found the 6-foot, 200-pound Craig holding a barbell. Officers ordered him to drop the weight. He refused, and they shocked him twice in about 40 seconds. According to police, Craig struggled for five minutes after being shocked. When officers handcuffed him, he was unresponsive.

Two months ago, a Mobile, Ala., grand jury determined officers were justified in firing their Tasers.

Doctors asked to review the case by Taser said the fact that Craig struggled after being shocked shows the stun gun did not contribute to his death.

"This is conclusive evidence that he was not in ventricular fibrillation after receiving the Taser discharge," Wayne McDaniel and Robert Stratbucker wrote in an Aug. 4 report.

Edward Freelander, department of pathology chairman at Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences, questioned Riddick's autopsy.

"Dr. Riddick's lack of attention to the existing, extremely serious heart disease is very strange," Freelander wrote in an Aug. 3 report. "Despite some strange language, there is nothing to suggest that the Taser fragmented the heart or that the current went anywhere near it to cause a rhythm problem."

Craig's relatives and friends are convinced that the Taser is to blame.

"It triggered a heart attack," said Lee Pease of Mobile, who is married to Craig's ex-wife.

An Alabama state trooper for 26 years, Pease knows Tasers are popular with law enforcement officers. But he doesn't trust the stun gun.

"I don't think there has been enough training on it," he said. "I certainly support the police . . . but this ... I don't know."

 

[kola]

The more I look, the more I find. This one is ruled a Homicide. I cannot find any mention of who the murderer/s are. Can anyone assist me?

Thanks
Kola


------------------------------------
2nd Taser death in TX ruled correctly by coronerauthor: Debbie Russell [email protected]

Taser deaths in TX rise (13 to date) - TX tied for 3rd in states with the most deaths...but in only 2 cases have medical examiners ruled Taser as a contributing cause of death and the death itself as a "homocide" (the first: ROBERT EARL WILLIAMS, Waco, age 62, died 06/14/05).
For Immediate Release, April 26, 2005

CONTACT: Debbie Russell, ACLU Central Texas, 512.573.6194 "The Taser
Hotline"

The Lubbock County Medical Examiner`s Office office today ruled the in-custody death of Juan Nunez, III, as a "homocide" and cited the Taser as a contributing cause of his death; the second examiner in TX to correctly attribute a death to the poorly designed weapon, although 11 other deaths in the state are likely to have been from such. Excessive force from law enforcement agencies statewide seems to be increasing with the liberal use of this "non-lethal" tool, as it is being used much more than tools lower on the use-of-force continuum.
ACLU TX commends the medical examiners office of Lubbock for rightly evidencing the medical facts and resisting political pressures to do otherwise. We offer our empathy to the family of the victim, and our assistance to city entities as they review Taser-use policy in response to the death.

ACLU TX representatives are available for further comment and facts
about Taser use/deaths in TX. Please contact 512.573.6194 for contacts
and information.

LINKS for TX Taser Cases:
http://www.fwweekly.com/content.asp?article=3574
http://www.fwweekly.com/content.asp?article=3504 (Midland Architect died after being tasered 17 times! Close enough to Lubbock to bolster current death)
http://www.fwweekly.com/content.asp?article=770 (other TX cases)
and http://www.fwweekly.com/content.asp?article=3743 --of note "The president of TASER International told Fort Worth Weekly last month that the stun weapons his company manufactures are “not a disciplinary tool” and shouldn’t be used that way."

 

[kola]

Another Taser Death, the primary cause: electrocution
---------------------------------------

Taser Gun Causes DeathThe Cook County (Chicago) medical examiner's office ruled on Friday that a 54-year-old man died as a result of a five-second and then 57-second electrical shock from a Taser. The "primary cause of Hasse's death was electrocution" and the secondary cause of death was methamphetamine. Taser contends its devices are "non-lethal." Amnesty International has determined 129 people died after "electro-shock" from Tasers between June 2001 and July 15 2005. Approximately 7,000 police agencies use Tasers; lawyers filed a class action lawsuit against Taser in Chicago last week. Local, state or federal legislation is sure to follow.

Tags: Police, Politics, Taser.
See Chicago Sun-Times, Chicago Tribune, Newsday

 

[chemist308]

Yeah like the one from 2004 in the L&P forum...

 

[hso]

kola,

If you stick to the technical aspects the thread and posts are fine regardless of how controversial. Drift into politics or the question of LE abuse in general and the posts will go away if the thread continues to have technical merit. If the thread as a whole stops having technical merit the whole thread goes away. It's simple. The political forum is for politics.

BTW, the free speech references are pointless. Everyone agreed to the same rules when they signed up. The rules were clearly stated at the time and are provided in the upper-left corner of every page http://thehighroad.org/private.php .

For the convenience of folks that don't want to look at them again I'll simply provide the section on "free speech".

A note on FREE SPEECH:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The First Amendment is greatly respected here on The High Road, as are all other Amendments that the Second Amendment defends. However, The High Road is private property and requests that members adhere to all forum policies. It is a contract agreed to by all who become members of The High Road. Those who break forum rules cannot invoke censorship or freedom of speech - a contract broken is a contract broken. If you do not like the rules of conduct or the acceptable topics, seek out a new venue to frequent or start your own board.

 

[kola]

HSO,Ever read the book Animal Farm?


So what is not private property?


Kola

 

[kola]

Someone here posted that pregnant moms and children are excluded from being tas er ed:
Seems they are incorrect.

I found this pregnant mom was ta sered:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/223578_taser10.html

and here is article of a 6 yr old that was ta se erd:

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/11/16/Tampabay/Situation__not_age__g.shtml


Kola

 

[SIXTO]

That same someone also posted that sometimes there is no other viable choice.

For someone who likes to bitch and moan about cherry picking sentances and twisting meanings, you do a lot of it yourself. Read some medical studies, and other scientific studies. If all you can do is post well known liberal biased newspapers go ahead, but I will not engage in a debate with someone who refuses to learn or look at fact.

I have asked you a number of questions, all have been ignored or danced around, so I might as well debate and discuss with a brick.


Oh yeah, the black helicopters are coming to get you too.

 

[Coronach]

Kola:

A note on FREE SPEECH:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The First Amendment is greatly respected here on The High Road, as are all other Amendments that the Second Amendment defends. However, The High Road is private property and requests that members adhere to all forum policies. It is a contract agreed to by all who become members of The High Road. Those who break forum rules cannot invoke censorship or freedom of speech - a contract broken is a contract broken. If you do not like the rules of conduct or the acceptable topics, seek out a new venue to frequent or start your own board.

If you feel you can abide by these requests, we hope that you join us on The High Road. We invite you to share your expertise and enjoy the camaraderie. "Share what you know, learn what you don't."

This is from the Forum Rules. These are listed at the link in the upper right hand corner of your screen. Moreover, you were required to read them and state that you understood them and agreed to abide by them upon registration.

Mike

 

[markk]

thank goodness that newspapers dont make the law
just because some "journalist" says that there is a connection
does not make it so

 

[Coronach]

Someone here posted that pregnant moms and children are excluded from being tasered:
Seems they are incorrect.

I found this pregnant mom was tasered:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/223578_taser10.html

and here is article of a 6 yr old that was tasered:

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/11/16/Ta...t_age__g.shtml

1. I gave you my PD's policy. This is not the same as every PD's policy.

2. Even my PD's policy will make an exception based upon circumstances. Each use of the Taser is evaluated case-by-case, and if I can articulate a really good reason for deviating from the SOP, I can still be ruled within policy.

3. In the pregnant woman episode, the police did not know she was pregnant. The propriety of your actions (citizen, police) are judged by what you knew at the time you performed your action, not what was learned later.

4. In the article about the children, it plainly states that local policy allows the circumstances to dictate how the Taser is applied, as opposed to allowing age alone to dictate when it can and cannot be applied. I'm not sure that one can rationally argue that allowing a 6 year old to slice his wrist with a piece of glass is morally superior to using a Taser to disable him without injury. The keys to that case would be the reasonableness of the belief that he was going to do it and the reasonableness of the belief that he could do it prior to being grabbed. Frankly, if I had anyone, at any age, threatening to slice his wrist with a shard of glass and I did not think I could close with him and prevent it, I would absolutely fire up the Taser. That sounds like a perfect use of the tool to me; everyone, even the suspect/victim, is unharmed.

From another poster:

Really, the abuse of the tool is just the symptom of the deeper problem of the state believing a lack of compliance is justification for force. It's the us vs. them mentality run amok

...So, what is the power to arrest, then? If nothing else, it is the authority to use force to take someone into custody, in order to bring them before a judge (the primary purpose) and to prevent harm to persons and property (secondary purposes). Unsurprisingly, many people are not compliant with the request to submit to arrest. This leaves the police with the option of not arresting them (dereliction of duty, or nonfeasance), or using force to compel.

Now, can one have a debate about whether or not a given level of force is appropriate to the situation at hand? Certainly.

Mike

PS OK, this is and has veered far enough into politics that I think we should do the following:

1. This thread will be closed.
2. Anyone is welcome to re-open one in this forum, discussing the TECHNICAL aspects of the Taser only.
3. Anyone is welcome to re-open one in the L&P forum, discussing the politics.