TC setting on Hornady Progressive

[CKweigand]

So when I adjusted my dies for 45 ACP. I adjusted everything to a WINCHESTER Headstamped case. I am seating at station four and crimping on station five. I must add I am using the PTX expander with the powder measure and it expands it just so, that I might be able to get away with not crimping at all. However, my brass is not HS sorted and I came across a Armscor casing that when was crimped you could definitely tell it was digging into the plating of the 230GR RN Berry’s bullet.

When I set the tc die to the Winchester case it measures at .471”, and looks great after being crimped! My conclusion is the Armscor brass has a thicker wall thickness than Winchester. Without having to sort my brass by headstamp and adjust the tc die to every different brand. How would some of the reloading veterans approach this issue?

Do you have a different TC dies for every headstamp you come across? Do you not ever bother crimping the brass? Did I just invent some self induced problem that never existed before in the reloading universe? Eh, whatever...Could you guys help me out please. I’ve got a couple years of loading under my belt all SS and have two days worth on this Lnl progressive.

 

[Allen One1]

I don't sort my pistol brass but I don't shoot competition either. For just everyday shooting I would just run with it and not worry about the crimp getting into the plating a bit. However if I was having one of those days and really thinking through this stuff, I would check this out on a couple other brands of brass and do some measuring of the brass to see how much variation I was really getting. You don't need much of a crimp when taper crimping, if you can see it you probably have to much. Is your shell plate full on one case and just crimping one case on another? This can make a slight difference in how far the case gets pushed into the die when you are seating on station 5.

How is this different than what you have seen on the single stage press you have been doing? Everything should work exactly the same.

 

[CKweigand]

How is this different than what you have seen on the single stage press you have been doing? Everything should work exactly the same.

When I was using my single stage I was loading in small batches of 50, 100, 200...so I could sort by headstamp easily and wasn’t too time consuming. I was more worried about instilling good habits and learning the fundamentals through in through. Now that I’m confident in my practices and have a progressive. I thought I could get away from sorting HS’s and purchased 2000rds of once fired brass...I want to just be able to pick up cases by the handful and load them up with no worries or fuss about adjusting dies...as far as the TC I have set as of now you would have to study the case by eye to notice the crimp IMO.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Without having to sort my brass by headstamp and adjust the tc die to every different brand. How would some of the reloading veterans approach this issue?

Did I just invent some self induced problem that never existed before in the reloading universe?

I think you're really doing yourself a disservice by not sorting by headstamp...unless you really like to be surprised by cases with different primer sizes.

If you're already looking at primer pockets, it doesn't take much effort to sort. Just decide which headstamps you want to load and throw the rest into a miscellaneous pile.

I actually like my SPP brass, because I can change over, from 9mm, to loading .45ACP by just swapping the shell plate, twisting in different dies, and changing powder measure inserts

 

[9mmepiphany]

I want to just be able to pick up cases by the handful and load them up with no worries or fuss about adjusting dies

You can...after you've sorted them once.

I seldom load more than 500 at a time. Since I have at least 1k of any given headstamp, in makes it pretty convenient to just open a container and grab a handful

 

[CKweigand]

You can...after you've sorted them once.

I seldom load more than 500 at a time. Since I have at least 1k of any given headstamp, in makes it pretty convenient to just open a container and grab a handful

I can get behind that. But with your brass sorted out like that, I take it maybe you have tote just for 45 ACP Win and another for federal and another for R-P and so forth?? If that’s what I need to do to make it easier and more convenient then that’s what I’ll do. I just want to know what works for others and model something after what perceives to be efficient.

 

[9mmepiphany]

For semiauto pistols, I mostly shoot 9mm and only load Federal, Speer, and Starline. I sort out PMC and Blazer to gift to new shooters. I give/trade the rest of it away.

In .45ACP, I do keep Blazer and Federal (SPP), Federal, PMC, Win, Starline, and Speer.

What I do is wet tumble brass with Armorall Wash & Wax in place of Dawn to keep them shinny, sort them after drying, and store them in used 3lb plastic Folger's coffee cans. Put a label on the can, add a desiccant packet, and place them on a shelf in the garage

 

[Allen One1]

Ok that is making sense if you have previously been sorting them. That can make your eyes cross doing that for very long. I don't sort and have had no issues loading 9mm, also a taper crimp cartridge. I did have one brand of case that I sorted out of the 38 special cases as it was giving me trouble but haven't done any sorting on the 9mm. It sounds like you are adjusting the die correctly if you are giving it a very slight crimp that is hard to see. Maybe you should just load 50 mixed cases and shoot them to see if you spot any issues with accuracy.

 

[thomas15]

I can get behind that. But with your brass sorted out like that, I take it maybe you have tote just for 45 ACP Win and another for federal and another for R-P and so forth?? If that’s what I need to do to make it easier and more convenient then that’s what I’ll do. I just want to know what works for others and model something after what perceives to be efficient.

As 9mmepiphany states I also sort out by headstamp for 9mm, this is what I shoot 95% of the time. I sort Federal, Winchester, Blazer into separate totes, 1 tote each headstamp, plus 1 tote for mixed headstamp for a total of 4 (9mm totes). I do the same for 38 special so I have 4 of those also and combined with the other calibers I handload I have 16 totes total for all of the handloading I personally do. I have way more then this (9mm) separated by headstamp brass so I have overflow in cat litter containers (example: for Federal 9mm I have 1 tote and 2 cat litter containers full of clean and ready to go brass). The overflow of my mixed 9mm brass go into 5 gallon Lowes pails, I have two of them literally filled to the brim.

It took a considerable amount of time to sort all of this and in the case of Blazer I started separating that out well after I put a lot of it into the mixed pails. When I shoot or pick up brass however I get it, I first tumble, then pick through each and place into the correct tote. I use empty Federal Primer boxes marked with headstamp to put small quantities of dirty brass into, I have a whole row of these boxes. Each of those boxed holds about 500 pcs of 9mm brass. Once the box is full I tumble them.

For mixed brass handloads I'm not that fussy, if I scrape some plating off a bullet so be it. I consider that practice/lost brass anyway. I have roughly 50,000 pcs of 9mm brass and the ability to add more faster than I can shoot it. Just keeping track of all that brass is a project in itself. I personally don't panic about a little bit of plating being scraped off of a bullet. Scraped or perfect, my ammo is way more accurate than my marksmanship skills. Getting all of my 9mm separated as I have it now took umpteen hours, but now it is just maintaining order so It's not too bad.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I did have one brand of case that I sorted out of the 38 special cases as it was giving me trouble

Don't even get me started on .38Spl.

I started with about 15k once fired (I personally fired the factory rounds in a PPC revolver) Winchester Match cases (148gr HBWC) and the case length variation was stunning...at least the brass thickness was consistent

When I was loading plated bullets for practice it wasn't too bad, but when I started loading my coated (Hi-Tek) bullets (BnB Casting) for competition it became a whole new project. It was so bad that I finally gave up trying to get consistent expansion using a Lyman "M" die or a consistent roll crimp.

I selected 1k cases and trimmed them to a uniform length, after sizing them in a Redding Dual Ring die, and uniformed the primer pockets...since I was at it, I also chamfered and bevel the case mouths (Hornady Case Prep Trio). Then I readjusted the "M" die to properly hold the bullets between stations on their way to a Redding Competition Seating die, and finally to a Redding Profile Crimp die. I prep another 1k each year to make up for Loss Brass matches

No more shaving of coating, tipped bullets, or budged cases and the reloading is both smoother and faster. But mostly peace of mind...but now I have case containers labeled "Plated" and "Coated".

I dread considering going to a moon clip loaded revolver, because I'd have to prep a whole different batch of cases

 

[RealGun]

So when I adjusted my dies for 45 ACP. I adjusted everything to a WINCHESTER Headstamped case. I am seating at station four and crimping on station five. I must add I am using the PTX expander with the powder measure and it expands it just so, that I might be able to get away with not crimping at all. However, my brass is not HS sorted and I came across a Armscor casing that when was crimped you could definitely tell it was digging into the plating of the 230GR RN Berry’s bullet.

When I set the tc die to the Winchester case it measures at .471”, and looks great after being crimped! My conclusion is the Armscor brass has a thicker wall thickness than Winchester. Without having to sort my brass by headstamp and adjust the tc die to every different brand. How would some of the reloading veterans approach this issue?

Do you have a different TC dies for every headstamp you come across? Do you not ever bother crimping the brass? Did I just invent some self induced problem that never existed before in the reloading universe? Eh, whatever...Could you guys help me out please. I’ve got a couple years of loading under my belt all SS and have two days worth on this Lnl progressive.

You could sample head stamps for case thickness and then assign head stamp names to size classes for use on a specific crimp setting or to be culled for at least your use. I sort head stamps because I have to set aside those that either have thin case wall and will then not size down to a firm grip on the bullets, or for the turret press, on which there are head stamps that have thick heads and require a specific brand of shell holder. On 38/357 the RCBS #6 works the best, and Lee is definitely too tight for some.

I debulge my 45 ACP, so I have to watch for head stamps with case head sizes that will jam in the bulge buster die. Sorting head stamps seems like quite a chore, but my reloading moved to a higher level when I started doing that along with trimming revolver brass for a consistent crimp.

 

[sbwaters]

trimming revolver brass for a consistent crimp.

I don’t trim it, but I do bag it by length so I reload 50/100 rounds at a time with the same settings.

I deprime and wet tumble. When dry I size and sort. Then bag for later reloading.

I only use Starline, saving the mixed brass for casual plinking rounds. Haven’t loaded those in a year.

 

[RealGun]

I don’t trim it, but I do bag it by length so I reload 50/100 rounds at a time with the same settings.

I deprime and wet tumble. When dry I size and sort. Then bag for later reloading.

I only use Starline, saving the mixed brass for casual plinking rounds. Haven’t loaded those in a year.

That is a good point. I sort head stamps and also measure every case, when revolver, and I know I am only dealing with cases in my own rotation. Anything over my maximum (+-.002) gets trimmed. The rest get put into .005 increment (+-.002) categories for later reference and readjusting the crimp die. For example. I am using 1.140 +-.002 for 38 Special, all Winchester, and 1.275 +-.002 for the magnums, mostly segregated Winchesters or exclusively Starline. Every box of ammo includes the same head stamp and case length. A lot of that has to do with revolvers and needing a good quality roll crimp, where neck tension alone is not the answer.

 

[cfullgraf]

First, I do not shoot any handgun competition anymore so my comments are aimed at plinking/casual target shooting

Don't even get me started on .38Spl.

Roll crimps on revolver rounds are a different animal from taper crimps. For my light 38 Special wadcutter loads I use a taper crimp. The taper crimp is more forgiving to different case lengths and case wall thicknesses than a roll crimp. It may not give the best results for competing though.

I dread considering going to a moon clip loaded revolver, because I'd have to prep a whole different batch of cases

I have several moon clip J-frame revolvers. The moon clips that I use recommend Starline, R-P, and maybe another brand of case or two. Other cases such as Winchester need a thicker clip. Once sorted, it is easy to keep the cases separated in the loaded/fired/cleaning/reloading cycle. At home, I just keep the different head stamps in different containers and load them in separate sessions. I load my moon clips at home and de-moon them at home so at the range I have no issues with getting the cases mixed. I can dump all 38 Special cases in the same fired case bag. The moon clips keep the head stamps sorted.

But I did make a substantial investment in moon clips to make this possible and have enough moon clips to cover my planned shooting at the range.

S

Do you have a different TC dies for every headstamp you come across? Do you not ever bother crimping the brass?

Again, I do not compete. Competition shooters will have different needs.

I just mix all my 45 ACP cases together. I cull cases that cause some difficulty in the reloading process but other than that, they all get reloaded (side note, I shoot at home and do not have a problem picking up small primer 45 ACP cases. I cannot remember the last time I bought a box of factory 45 ACP ammunition).

I've found a setting for my taper crimp die that works with all cases. My goal with the crimp is to remove the belling of the case mouth. The neck tension of the case holds the bullet in place not the crimp.

 

[RealGun]

First, I do not shoot any handgun competition anymore so my comments are aimed at plinking/casual target shooting



Roll crimps on revolver rounds are a different animal from taper crimps. For my light 38 Special wadcutter loads I use a taper crimp. The taper crimp is more forgiving to different case lengths and case wall thicknesses than a roll crimp. It may not give the best results for competing though.



I have several moon clip J-frame revolvers. The moon clips that I use recommend Starline, R-P, and maybe another brand of case or two. Other cases such as Winchester need a thicker clip. Once sorted, it is easy to keep the cases separated in the loaded/fired/cleaning/reloading cycle. At home, I just keep the different head stamps in different containers and load them in separate sessions. I load my moon clips at home and de-moon them at home so at the range I have no issues with getting the cases mixed. I can dump all 38 Special cases in the same fired case bag. The moon clips keep the head stamps sorted.

But I did make a substantial investment in moon clips to make this possible and have enough moon clips to cover my planned shooting at the range.



Again, I do not compete. Competition shooters will have different needs.

I just mix all my 45 ACP cases together. I cull cases that cause some difficulty in the reloading process but other than that, they all get reloaded (side note, I shoot at home and do not have a problem picking up small primer 45 ACP cases. I cannot remember the last time I bought a box of factory 45 ACP ammunition).

I've found a setting for my taper crimp die that works with all cases. My goal with the crimp is to remove the belling of the case mouth. The neck tension of the case holds the bullet in place not the crimp.

I think if using 45 ACP with semi autos and SWC bullets, where the case mouth ends up on the bullet is pretty critical for reliable feeding. My bullets are seated deep enough to get a little roll over the leading band edge, very much like a DEWC. Most of my shooting though is with a Smith 625 PC (moon clips).

 

[cfullgraf]

I think if using 45 ACP with semi autos and SWC bullets, where the case mouth ends up on the bullet is pretty critical for reliable feeding. My bullets are seated deep enough to get a little roll over the leading band edge, very much like a DEWC. Most of my shooting though is with a Smith 625 PC (moon clips).

With my Gold Cup, I taper crimp the cases into the side of the semi-wadcutter bullets. It operates fine. But, with my standard Colt 1911's, I've never gotten semi-wadcutters to feed reliably. Admittedly, I never tried real hard either with different springs, different magazines, modifying the feed ramp or reloading practices. 230 FMJ RN just work too well in them.

38 Special wadcutter semi-autos like the S&W Model 52 function best with the case mouth rolled over the end of the wadcutter bullet a bit.

I could see a roll crimp on semi-wadcutters used in a moon clipped revolver would help with reloading quickly in a revolver. I've shot only 230 FMJ RN in my M625 and the ammunition does hang up a bit on the case mouth as the moon clip is inserted.

 

[9mmepiphany]

the ammunition does hang up a bit on the case mouth as the moon clip is inserted.

It is even worst with the longer .38Spl case...that is why the crimp I use with my competition ammo is a bit pronounced

 

[Blue68f100]

For the 45acp I only use the TC to remove any belling/flaring that was done. I set the TC die up on the shorter cases so it removes the the flare and < 0.001"more. With the longer cases it will give you maybe 0.002" more. I set the LSWC so only a thumb nail thickness is showing above the rim.

 

[RealGun]

For the 45acp I only use the TC to remove any belling/flaring that was done. I set the TC die up on the shorter cases so it removes the the flare and < 0.001"more. With the longer cases it will give you maybe 0.002" more. I set the LSWC so only a thumb nail thickness is showing above the rim.

First, I make sure my bullets are no more than .452, and then remove only enough flare for the cartridge to plunk in a case gauge. I use a single head stamp, trying to eliminate variance in case wall thickness. At some point a taper crimp can crush a bullet or interfere with neck tension, so I try to avoid that.

 

[TheDomFather]

So when I adjusted my dies for 45 ACP. I adjusted everything to a WINCHESTER Headstamped case. I am seating at station four and crimping on station five. I must add I am using the PTX expander with the powder measure and it expands it just so, that I might be able to get away with not crimping at all. However, my brass is not HS sorted and I came across a Armscor casing that when was crimped you could definitely tell it was digging into the plating of the 230GR RN Berry’s bullet.

When I set the tc die to the Winchester case it measures at .471”, and looks great after being crimped! My conclusion is the Armscor brass has a thicker wall thickness than Winchester. Without having to sort my brass by headstamp and adjust the tc die to every different brand. How would some of the reloading veterans approach this issue?

Do you have a different TC dies for every headstamp you come across? Do you not ever bother crimping the brass? Did I just invent some self induced problem that never existed before in the reloading universe? Eh, whatever...Could you guys help me out please. I’ve got a couple years of loading under my belt all SS and have two days worth on this Lnl progressive.

Check the length of your brass. When you are using a TC die if the brass is longer the crimp will be harder if its shorter it wont crimp as much. Case length matters in a taper crimp as the further up the die the brass goes the more the die tapers and the more crimp you get. Hence yes you do need to trim pistol brass if you plan to use a TC die. If you dont want to trim your brass a Lee Factory crimp die may be an alternative!

 

[CKweigand]

Check the length of your brass. When you are using a TC die if the brass is longer the crimp will be harder if its shorter it wont crimp as much. Case length matters in a taper crimp as the further up the die the brass goes the more the die tapers and the more crimp you get. Hence yes you do need to trim pistol brass if you plan to use a TC die. If you dont want to trim your brass a Lee Factory crimp die may be an alternative!

That makes A LOT of sense!! I was always told since I was a cub, to not worry about case length in a straight walled cartridge for a semi auto. So I never even thought about length being a issue. Might have to do some uniformity as well when I’m sorting my brass now. It might be a couple more steps but hopefully the flow of the operation once it comes to pulling the lever will be much smoother.

 

[Dudedog]

I don't sort pistol brass but I do like to mark the base of case with different color sharpies to tell thing apart just in case I decide to mix them up..
Might be handy once you do have them sorted if you decide to sort.. Put them in an ammo box so it is easy to mark the base. I got 8 different color wide sharpies from Wally World.
Make brand x one color say red, brand Y and other say green.... should make it quicker when you go to sort next time. Also helps you tell your brass in case it gets mixed up with other brass at the range.
(.223 marked so I know they are mine and have no primer pocket crimp)

Another thought would be to just sort out any problem cases and mark them say Black/brown or some other color so you can work them out of the ones you normally load.

 

[Blue68f100]

The only function of the TC is to remove any flaring done during the reloading process. So if you only remove the flare to make the brass straight wall it's done its job. So fine your shortest for that and be done. There is a lot of variation in the 45 amp brass I have. Don't worry too much on how much crimp unless it give you chambering problems. So if it passes the Plunk Test your good to go.