Teach me about ARs

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The Unknown User

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Someday I want to own an AR similar to the M4s currently issued to the US military. The only problem is, I know next to nothing about ARs.

I really don't know where to start, so I'd like to keep this open-ended. I guess I'm mostly interested in what brands and companies I should buy from.

This is going to sound stupid, but the M4s used in the cabin shootout sequence in the movie "Shooter" is pretty much what I want. (I think it's just a CAR-A4 with an Aimpoint, but I could be wrong.)

What brands are good to buy from? I've heard RRA and Bushmaster are good.

What about add-ons, and modifications, and other after market parts? What companies are good?

Hell, anything you guys want to teach me is good. :)
 
RRA, Bushmaster, Stag, CMMG, and several others are good. Noveske, LMT, and Colt are the best. But if you want the best, you have to pay for the best :(

If you want to read a LOT about them check out www.ar15.com and look at the forum there.
 
There's too much to write to answer your questions.

Colt's 6920 or 6921 would be your civilian M4, but many companies offer something like it. Frankly, I prefer a lighter barrel, but the 1:7 twist is good. Most of what you'll find for sale will have a 1:9 twist, and that's just fine.

CMMG would be my next choice if you don't want to cough up the dollars for a Colt.

You'd be best served with your quest by visiting arfcom.
 
Wow, I've got a lot of choices then. Any specific recommendations?

Just out of curiosity: are AK47s made in a civilian version?
 
Oh, Look, A Grape!

Man, you guys are easily distracted.

It was a dup post.

As in "too quick on the trigger."

I deleted the dup.

I deleted the remark about the dup.

Now, can we get back to the topic?
 
We are not easily distracted! We always keep threads on topic and maintain a coherent stream of consc OOOH SHINY..............................
 
LMT or Colt LE

LMT isn’t much more money than RRA, Bushmaster ect, but is as good as a Colt LE. You could even say its better since it uses standard sized trigger pins. I would look at LMT or Colt LE (I specify LE, not their civilian guns). LMT also uses standard size pins.

Noveske also has their basic N4 for $1,400 which is a great deal. The 14.5” barrel N4 will probably be my next purchase. KAC should be releasing their SR-15 here soon in the $2,000 range. I haven’t looked too much into this but knowing it comes form KAC, it must bee pretty decent.

Add on stuff is nice, but don’t buy cheap crap. All I have on my LMT is an Eotech 553 a backup iron sight (BUIS), and a AAC SPR/M4 sound suppressor in transfer. I also have a second LMT which I would like to make into a designated night weapon with a NV scope and suppressor. Except for this spend half of what you spent on the weapon on spare mags and you should be set.

Best advise I can give you is don’t buy anything. Just read for a couple months. See what people who actually run or participate in carbine courses use and abuse. These people put a lot of rounds down range and see a lot of products not up to par fail in the heat of things.

Just my $0.02

Dan
 
Get an LMT. No one has ever been made fun of for buying an LMT. If you get a RRA, Stag, etc. the Colt folks will tease you about your commercial buffer tubes and 5140 steel. If you buy a Colt the RRA, Stag, etc. guys will tease that you spent more for nothing just to get a name. They will call you a fan-boy and claim you have an unhealthy "thing" for ponies.

Get an LMT - and no one has anything to say. And, they are fine rifles by all counts as well. :)

In all seriousness - stay away from RRA, Bushmaster, DPMS, and all the standard gun shop brands. Most of them are decent and shoot fine. However, these rifles are a little less expensive for a reason - some of the materials and workmanship are not 100% up snuff in a lot of people's opinions. You spend just a little bit more and get a Colt, LMT, Sabre, or some other brands and get better quality steel, proper assembly, Milspec receiver extensions, proper feed ramps, and magnetic particle tested bolts riding in properly staked carriers.

A lot of folks don't believe these things are important. A lot of folks have thousands of rounds through rifles that have none of these things and feel they are good enough. But why cut any corners when for just another couple hundred bucks you can get it all right out of the box? A fully equipped rifle is a big purchase - you don't want to have second thoughts later on.

I personally have two RRA rifles and one Frankengun. I replaced the receiver extensions with Milspec tubes, properly staked everything, and upgraded to BCM bolt carrier groups. After spending that extra money, I could, had I known better, just bought a rifle that had all those things out of the box. Alas, I learn as I go. :)

At least with the Franken gun I feel I made, IMO, the right choices in regards to components.

And if you spend good money on a rifle, like the previous poster said - save some dollars for quality accessories. It's good advice to just shoot the rifle for a while plain and unaccessorized to get use to it and see what you really want and need to add on. At my last carbine class the person with the "plain jane" rifle with iron sights did just as well as those with fully "tricked out" rifles - and he was less tired since he wasn't lugging all the extra crap around.
 
I've owned Colt, Stag, Bushmaster and Superior Arms variants of the AR-15/M-4 carbines. The most accurate has been my Superior Arms S-15 carbine. I love it. I'm thinking about getting another Superior Arms variant because of the first one. Can't beat a good AR of any sort.

As to the AK being made for civilians. Yes, they are. Some of us have SAR-1 made in Romania. Others have MAK-90s made in China. Others have Bulgarian or Russian made versions of the AKs.

Both the AKs and the ARs are good rifles. The ARs are more accurate at longer distances than the AKs. The AKs shoot a bigger diameter bullet and are good for close range shooting needs. Own both and feel good about them.
 
I have some more questions:

- I'm not an LEO. Can I still a buy a Colt LE rifle?

- What company has the "most bang for the buck"?

- Does a company having a government contract really mean anything? For example, I recently read that RRA has a contract with the DEA.

- About the AKs: what companies make them? (I Googled the SAR-1 and MAK-90 and just found pages about them, not really a company's website showing the product. I found the manual for the SAR-1 online, and it said it's from Century Arms.) I guess I just want to know who makes them and if they're reputable. (I abhor buying products from companies with poor reputations.)

- All I see on LMT's website are pieces of rifles. Do they not sell whole rifles? I wouldn't be looking to buy a rifle to put together (although I'm sure that's quite fun). When I do buy my own rifle when I can (read: can afford it), I don't intend for it to be a project.

- Which companies have good customer service? (Not that I should ever need it, but if I do, I hate being treatly rudely.)
 
Yes you can buy Colt LE rifles. You wont be able to pick them up form any gun shop however. Look on the www.ar15.com equipment exchange for one. A good price for a NIB Colt LE6920 (which is as close to a real M4 as you will find) will be around $1,200.

Most bang for the buck will depend on what your primary use. It could be an Olympic arms plinker for $599 or a Noveske Rifle Works “Diplomat” for $2,196. Either one could represent a great value depending on your use. What do you want to do with your rifle: Hunting, target shooting, home defense, end of the world type stuff?

Most companies lie about there military contracts. The only companys who actually produce weapons for the military are: Colt M4 (Marines), FN M-16A4 (Army), LMT Mk19 (Navy). That’s it!!! (I think, someone please correct me if I’m wrong).

Yes it does appear RRA does have a contract with the DEA. However that rifle is built to completely different specifications and standards than their civilian line. This is reflected in the price of the RRA DEA rifle which if I remember correctly is well over $2,000.

LMT just started selling complete rifles to civilians. Before this you would have to buy a complete lower and a complete upper and push the two pins together. Assembly took 5 seconds and you saved some 10% tax on complete firearms.

I cant say as to customer service for any company except for simple email correspondence with LMT and Noveske. Both companies have been helpful and quick in their responses.

AKs are another thread altogether. Look at Vector arms. I think they represent the best value for a general purpose AK.

Dan
 
I buy my Colt ARs at a gun shoppe. In fact I just traded an FNC for 3 6920s at a gun shoppe.:D

Rob, do you have any friends with ARs? Maybe shoot their weapon first. Anyone with an AR at your gun club? Maybe if you buy them lunch they will let you shoot one?

How about showing up at a 3 gun meet? Gun nuts love to show off their guns. Why not volunteer to keep score or pick up brass and talk to the gun gamers?

Any rental ranges by you? See if they have any.

Handle all the guns you can. Remember, in the gun culture the subjective is objective. What I like, you may not.

Look around see what's out there. Handle all the stuff you can and try different options before buyings.

The good things about the AR is that, #1. everyone, including my mother, is making ARs and AR gear, #2. if you don't like your set up, even a seventh grader can change it.
 
To be technically correct, there is no civilian version of the AK-47. The AK-47 is a select fire weapon. There are similar weapons with similar looks and some different internals available to the public. The reason you can't find a site for most AKs is because they are built in other countries, are shipped to an importer who then fits the rifles with the required number of US parts to be legal (see 922(r)), and then sells them to dealers.
 
They're all good. Some are just better than others... at a cost.

Used to hear buy A, B & C (Armalite, Bushmaster and Colt). It may be that that still holds true. They still make and sell them.
Colt has a gov't contract along with FN. Colt has a little history and political muscle behind them in regards this sytem. They cost more. Are they worth it? Maybe. Depends on what you're planning on doing with the rifle.

Like the 1911 handgun, everyone and their brother make and AR it seems. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe that's not. I think it is.

You only have $650 bucks? You can probably find something to fit your bill. Want to spend more for quality or a favorite Name? (S&W? is this a great country or what?)
Want to build one from different mfg. parts? Not a problem.
Different calibers? Can do.
Sights?
Barrel lengths?
Etc?

Fairchild's division Armalite was first back in the 50's. Colt got the golden plum back in the 60's (and the heat). Armalite's a different group nowadays. Maybe Colt is too.

Just buy one. Soon. You'll learn. I recommend the prancin' pony. YMMV
 
ElTejon said:
Rob, do you have any friends with ARs? Maybe shoot their weapon first. Anyone with an AR at your gun club? Maybe if you buy them lunch they will let you shoot one?
Click to expand...
The only friends I have that shoot are at college out of state, which leaves the summer, when they're both busy, usually. :(

ElTejon said:
How about showing up at a 3 gun meet? Gun nuts love to show off their guns. Why not volunteer to keep score or pick up brass and talk to the gun gamers?
Click to expand...
What's a three gun meet? I'm guessing it's a competition or some sort of a get-together. That doesn't sound like a bad idea.

ElTejon said:
Any rental ranges by you? See if they have any.
Click to expand...
There are two clubs near me, but I'm not sure if either rents.

ElTejon said:
Handle all the guns you can. Remember, in the gun culture the subjective is objective. What I like, you may not.
Click to expand...
That's true. :)

ElTejon said:
Look around see what's out there. Handle all the stuff you can and try different options before buyings.
Click to expand...
You're right--I need more experience.

ElTejon said:
The good things about the AR is that, #1. everyone, including my mother, is making ARs and AR gear, #2. if you don't like your set up, even a seventh grader can change it.
Click to expand...
I noticed that. It seems like half the companies that manufacture guns have their own AR now.

My biggest concerns about going to a range or something is that (a) I've never shot in my entire life, and that (b) I have no one to go with. I'm still a little unsure of the laws in MA (bleh), so I'm a little weary of going to any of those places at the moment.

I should just badger my friends.
 
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