Telescopic Batons
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brownie0486
Member
The following link takes you to a site run and owned by a good friend and knife training partner Mike Sastre.
http://www.rivercitysheaths.com/
Tell Mike you know Brownie from Massachusetts and what you are looking for.
He makes custom kydex rigs for about anything that can be carried and has made several custom sheaths for me to hold some very exotic toys.
I'm sure he can hook you up with something concealable if thats what you are looking for.
I have two monadnock polycarbonate 1" diameter sticks in my collection. Carried one on duty for 9 years as it was police issue equipment [ though thinner than most LE monadnock sticks ].
After an hour of playing with these in the drills your forearms are about to fall off. You can also rip muscle/tendons in your wrists/forearms making strikes if not careful. These are waytoo heavy to weild in a fast paced defensive scenario.
I utilize the bamboo or wooden dowels in 1" format that are 26 inches long and these are weilded much faster [becoming a blurr] while in use.
The monadnock would take heavy glancing/defensive blows and survive better than the dowels or bamboo but they are just too heavy to be effective in a dynamic environment where you need to redirect your defensive moves directly into something offensive.
Everybody has their preference but the lightweight sticks are much betrer in my hands. I've played with both extensively and prefer the wooden dowels in 1" diameter.
Dumbbell training won't keep you from ripping ligament and tendons in the forearms and wrists. I suggest you try to take a few small hits with a partner delivering the blows on your person. You should get the feel for the stick quite quickly and know that the lighter stick causes quite enough damage to the ooponent when used in anger vs the partner just tapping you until you know that anything harder will injure you and require some sort of medical attention. It's the only way to know what you can deliver for punishment. Take some small hits and tell me the light stick won't "do" someone in a hurry.
As to the asps locking open, thats what I'm looking for. I don't want it collapsing on me at the most inopertune time. The yare easily collapsed after the threat has been nuetralized by punching the end of the asp onto a hard surface. If the asp didn't lock open it would be basically useless as a defensive tool. Thats how they were designed and thats how they perform, to lock open once expanded and stay that way until a concerted effort is made to retract itself by the operator.
Check with Mike Sastre at the link above. He can hook you up with what you want, custom made to your criteria.
Brownie
http://www.rivercitysheaths.com/
Tell Mike you know Brownie from Massachusetts and what you are looking for.
He makes custom kydex rigs for about anything that can be carried and has made several custom sheaths for me to hold some very exotic toys.
I'm sure he can hook you up with something concealable if thats what you are looking for.
I have two monadnock polycarbonate 1" diameter sticks in my collection. Carried one on duty for 9 years as it was police issue equipment [ though thinner than most LE monadnock sticks ].
After an hour of playing with these in the drills your forearms are about to fall off. You can also rip muscle/tendons in your wrists/forearms making strikes if not careful. These are waytoo heavy to weild in a fast paced defensive scenario.
I utilize the bamboo or wooden dowels in 1" format that are 26 inches long and these are weilded much faster [becoming a blurr] while in use.
The monadnock would take heavy glancing/defensive blows and survive better than the dowels or bamboo but they are just too heavy to be effective in a dynamic environment where you need to redirect your defensive moves directly into something offensive.
Everybody has their preference but the lightweight sticks are much betrer in my hands. I've played with both extensively and prefer the wooden dowels in 1" diameter.
Dumbbell training won't keep you from ripping ligament and tendons in the forearms and wrists. I suggest you try to take a few small hits with a partner delivering the blows on your person. You should get the feel for the stick quite quickly and know that the lighter stick causes quite enough damage to the ooponent when used in anger vs the partner just tapping you until you know that anything harder will injure you and require some sort of medical attention. It's the only way to know what you can deliver for punishment. Take some small hits and tell me the light stick won't "do" someone in a hurry.
As to the asps locking open, thats what I'm looking for. I don't want it collapsing on me at the most inopertune time. The yare easily collapsed after the threat has been nuetralized by punching the end of the asp onto a hard surface. If the asp didn't lock open it would be basically useless as a defensive tool. Thats how they were designed and thats how they perform, to lock open once expanded and stay that way until a concerted effort is made to retract itself by the operator.
Check with Mike Sastre at the link above. He can hook you up with what you want, custom made to your criteria.
Brownie
Kannonfrye:
I just whipped out my Monadnock Autolock, (been a while since I've played with it.)
While I still say it's a bit on the heavy side to carry (though I've done it before) its a whole other thing when its extended.
When extended, it really is not at all so heavy as to be difficult to wield.
I can whip it around quite quickly, and its substantial heft would most definitely make a HUGE impact if/when it makes contact.
Another thing I thought of:
You could purchase a smartcarry (www.smartcarry.com) and use that to carry the baton.
I have a smartcarry I just got, but haven't tried it yet.
I will and I'll let you know.
Hope this helps.
Drjones
I just whipped out my Monadnock Autolock, (been a while since I've played with it.)
While I still say it's a bit on the heavy side to carry (though I've done it before) its a whole other thing when its extended.
When extended, it really is not at all so heavy as to be difficult to wield.
I can whip it around quite quickly, and its substantial heft would most definitely make a HUGE impact if/when it makes contact.
Another thing I thought of:
You could purchase a smartcarry (www.smartcarry.com) and use that to carry the baton.
I have a smartcarry I just got, but haven't tried it yet.
I will and I'll let you know.
Hope this helps.
Drjones
kannonfyre
Member
Good day to you Dr Jones,
I've seen the smart carry and I wonder whether it's practical to carry a 9" long collapsed baton in it. It looks like it was meant to carry compact pistols and other smaller items only.
Please do let me know how it works when you get your smartcarry though.
I've seen the smart carry and I wonder whether it's practical to carry a 9" long collapsed baton in it. It looks like it was meant to carry compact pistols and other smaller items only.
Please do let me know how it works when you get your smartcarry though.
Hello to you, sir.
Well, I just got back, removed my G30 from my Smartcarry.
Put my Monadnock in, and it works great.
My baton is 11 3/4" long closed, and when in the Smartcarry, about 3 1/2 inches sticks out above the waist of my pants.
HOWEVER, you could safety pin the pouch, or stuff cloth in the bottom of it in order to get more of the baton to stick above your pantline.
The manuf. recommends this anyway to "customize" the Smartcarry to each gun, as they only come in two or three sizes. (Which is evident as mine is marked as being a "Medium" size, and will accomodate both my G30 and G27.)
I'd post pics, but don't have a digicam.
Am I clear?
Hope that made sense...
Drjones
Well, I just got back, removed my G30 from my Smartcarry.
Put my Monadnock in, and it works great.
My baton is 11 3/4" long closed, and when in the Smartcarry, about 3 1/2 inches sticks out above the waist of my pants.
HOWEVER, you could safety pin the pouch, or stuff cloth in the bottom of it in order to get more of the baton to stick above your pantline.
The manuf. recommends this anyway to "customize" the Smartcarry to each gun, as they only come in two or three sizes. (Which is evident as mine is marked as being a "Medium" size, and will accomodate both my G30 and G27.)
I'd post pics, but don't have a digicam.
Am I clear?
Hope that made sense...
Drjones
brownie0486
Member
If you stick with the joints on the arms, legs you will be creating much damage that should halt the attack which is your goal.
Go for the headshots and you may kill the guy. It is not a question of using deadly force as much as you want to get away from the threat and not face manslaughter or worse charges.
If you were justified to use force to defend yourself as you were in fear of your life or grave bodily injury it doesn't matter that it is deadly force.
What does matter is if you can articulate why you broke his wrist and not his a## when you could have.
If you have some formal training with the stick you can articulate your training, your reasons behind your actions and the proper response based on your training. That response being you were trying to stop the persons aggression toward you for you feared for your life or possible grave bodily injury if you did defend yourself.
BTW--An escrima type stick is not a club. A club is described as being fatter on one end than the other like a police billy club or baseball bat.
A stick is not a dangerous weapon in and of itself. Clubs have been determined to be such through written statutes in various states dangerous weapons laws, being specifically mentioned.
If a stick in and of itself was illegal to posses it would make it quite difficult to enforce. I may at that point have to start carrying a curtain rod around with me.
Brownie
Go for the headshots and you may kill the guy. It is not a question of using deadly force as much as you want to get away from the threat and not face manslaughter or worse charges.
If you were justified to use force to defend yourself as you were in fear of your life or grave bodily injury it doesn't matter that it is deadly force.
What does matter is if you can articulate why you broke his wrist and not his a## when you could have.
If you have some formal training with the stick you can articulate your training, your reasons behind your actions and the proper response based on your training. That response being you were trying to stop the persons aggression toward you for you feared for your life or possible grave bodily injury if you did defend yourself.
BTW--An escrima type stick is not a club. A club is described as being fatter on one end than the other like a police billy club or baseball bat.
A stick is not a dangerous weapon in and of itself. Clubs have been determined to be such through written statutes in various states dangerous weapons laws, being specifically mentioned.
If a stick in and of itself was illegal to posses it would make it quite difficult to enforce. I may at that point have to start carrying a curtain rod around with me.
Brownie
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I had to reply to those who think heavier is better.
A heavy baton may seem like a good idea but in reality, I think it is a detriment. You can be much quicker and more agile with a lighter baton - something important if your confronted with multiple attackers. A heavy one will be ponderous and slow enough that a street-wise criminal with a bit of martial arts training may be able to block your strike and take it away from you.
The lighter weight ASP is capable of inflicting more than enough damage and can be wielded much more efficiently.
A heavy baton may seem like a good idea but in reality, I think it is a detriment. You can be much quicker and more agile with a lighter baton - something important if your confronted with multiple attackers. A heavy one will be ponderous and slow enough that a street-wise criminal with a bit of martial arts training may be able to block your strike and take it away from you.
The lighter weight ASP is capable of inflicting more than enough damage and can be wielded much more efficiently.
V
VictorLouis
Guest
I've obviously been 'outta the loop' awhile.
I had no idea that ASP even had any competitors. I began carrying a 26"(?) full-size when I wore a uniform full-time. Soon, I grew tired of the length and weight when extended and switched to the 21" model. I just cannot imagine the other products mentioned here that are even heavier. FWIW, I also have their 16" model that I still occasionally carry as an adjunct to my CCW. I'm in agreement with lighter, shorter, quicker-is-better.
The baton is an intermediate, non-lethal weapon in so far as LE is concerned. Just like a ball-point pen, however, it can certainly be put to lethal use. Head-strikes are verboten unless your life is in jeapordy! You do need to check your laws, depending on the state, province or country where you live. That always is the final-word, as they say.
I had no idea that ASP even had any competitors.
I began carrying a 26"(?) full-size when I wore a uniform full-time. Soon, I grew tired of the length and weight when extended and switched to the 21" model. I just cannot imagine the other products mentioned here that are even heavier. FWIW, I also have their 16" model that I still occasionally carry as an adjunct to my CCW. I'm in agreement with lighter, shorter, quicker-is-better.The baton is an intermediate, non-lethal weapon in so far as LE is concerned. Just like a ball-point pen, however, it can certainly be put to lethal use. Head-strikes are verboten unless your life is in jeapordy! You do need to check your laws, depending on the state, province or country where you live. That always is the final-word, as they say.
WANNABEATRUCKER
Member
can I put this in my backpack?
I left a very abusive man I was married to. I also got a permanant protective order against him. I live in a small town in southern Indiana and the pro. atty won't enforce the P.O. even though my ex has violated it several times and threatened my life. I have all of this on tape but was told nothing will be done until he hurts me because they don't want to take up jail space with non violent crimes. I have a 21 inch expandable tac baton. I know I can't carry it in a tractor trailer but I want to know if someone knows if I can carry it in my backpack. I will use pepper spray first but the baton is nice to have if he decides to bring his shot gun that the police won't take from him even though the P.O. says he can't have it. I am not a violent person but if the pros. atty. won't protect me then I have to do something myself. I have a spottless criminal and driving record and don't want to do anything to mess that up.
help please:banghead:
Mary Pickett
I left a very abusive man I was married to. I also got a permanant protective order against him. I live in a small town in southern Indiana and the pro. atty won't enforce the P.O. even though my ex has violated it several times and threatened my life. I have all of this on tape but was told nothing will be done until he hurts me because they don't want to take up jail space with non violent crimes. I have a 21 inch expandable tac baton. I know I can't carry it in a tractor trailer but I want to know if someone knows if I can carry it in my backpack. I will use pepper spray first but the baton is nice to have if he decides to bring his shot gun that the police won't take from him even though the P.O. says he can't have it. I am not a violent person but if the pros. atty. won't protect me then I have to do something myself. I have a spottless criminal and driving record and don't want to do anything to mess that up.
help please:banghead:
Mary Pickett
Roadkill Coyote
Member
You might try and reframe the issue as a self defense question, and post it over in the Strategies and tactics section. There may be someone over there that can answer your question. I'd include IN in the title, so your more likely to catch the attention of someone with the specific info your looking for.
No. Asp, and similar batons, are intended to be used one handed. In escrima you may reinforce the strike with the other hand to the wrist or forearm, but it is not the SOP.
Batons, like peper spray, are part of the force continuum. They are intended to fit somewhere between the use of firearms and the disarming word. When words fail the use of a firearm isn't always needed to defend ourselves and this is where other tools come in to use. As such, beating the other guy to death isn't the goal and learning how to do something more than this is needed. Certainly if you need to transition to lethal force a baton can do that for you.
If you train in escrima I suggest you get a baton as close to the weight and length as the sticks you are using. You've already built the muscle memory for the weight and length and movement, take advantage of that.
Speed is important. It can't be said enough. If you can hit your opponent with a lighter stick so quickly that they can't defend/deflect/dodge it's obviously better than missing them with the heavy stick. What is "heavy" is different for each person, though so pick a stick that is a balance between weight and speed with preference given to speed.
If you're "clumsy", train out of it. It can be done. I know because I had to work to get away from being clumsy.
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