Tell me about the .458 Lott

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rugerfreak

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Did a search and came up with nothin.

Was looking over the new Ruger catalog today and noticed that the Magnum 77 rifle in .458 Lott--according to Ruger---will also chamber the .458 Win-----is this true???

Will a Ruger #1 in .458 Lott also do this??

What are the advantages of the .458 Lott over a .458 Win. and where would you find ammo for this beast??
 
The advantages a .458Lott has over a .458win is velocity energy and stopping power. The .458lott can push a 500gr bullet at 2300 fps very comfortably and it makes the .458 into a real honest to god stopping rifle. It also eliminates the over pressure problems faced with the .458 win when trying to get much over 2000fps out of it. Basically the Lott is what the .458 win was meant to be. A reliable replacement for the rare and expensive N.E. cartridges of old Africa and a time past when if one wanted a heavy stopping rifle he had a .470NE or some such.

As far as ammunition it's not a problem anymore as it is commercially loaded by Hornandy in the 500gr interlock soft point and the solid. I load my own and have a set of Hornrndy dies which cost approx. $25.00.

I have had the oppourtunity to kill two cape buffalo with my .458 lott and have not found it lacking in power or penetration. On both of the buffalo I killed we found that the .500gr softs went through both shoulders to stop on the skin on the off side and the solids went end for end (rear to front) all the way through the bulls both of which were large mature buff.

Another really cool thing about the lott is that you can shoot .458win mags rounds through it with no problems making it the most versitile and economic heavy rifle on the planet. To answer your question about a #1 Lott chambering a win mag..Yes any Lott will chamber and fire .458win mag. It's just like a .44special and a .44mag. Same chamber just a bit longer in the Lott.

Whan people ask me for advice on a heavy rifle I always offer the lott as the most sensible heavy for one who truley needs a big express type stopping rifle.

And another really coolo thing about the Lott is that with light bullets such as the 350 or 400gr X it shoots as flat as your .338. Just in case you ever wanted to use it for other types of hunting say brown bear or moose.

I've included a picture of my lott which is a custom gun which I had built off of stainless .375 model 70 action.
 
Another buff same gun.

I'll tell you another thing I like about the Lott.

On my last trip to Tanazania we got face to face with a not so happy elephant at close range in the tall grass. While we did not have to shoot her there were a few minutes in which we were thinking that we may have to.

The absoloute best view one can have of a close range PMSing cow elephant is down the sights of a .458Lott or some such rifle that is capable of ending one of these little bush confrontations in short order.

I won't carry anything less in close quarters hunting in Africa.. period..Especially where there are elephants about.
 
It kicks more.

Talked to a fellow Ruger #1 owner. His rifle was chambered in .458 Winchester Magnum, which he felt didn't have enough oomph for his purposes. So he had the chamber reamed out for .458 Lott. That worked for about one day at the range. He ended up buying one of those mercury-filled Dead Mule recoil reducers to have installed inside the buttstock of the Ruger. I get all punch-drunk when I run my super-hot (405gr/2000fps) .45-70 loads through my Ruger #1S, I could only imagine what the same rifle in .458 Lott would do to the person behind the trigger!:what:
 
What kind of sights do you have on that rifle, H&Hhunter?

Anybody ever tell you you look like a more, uh, "robust" version of Val Kilmer? ;)
 
DJJ,
Those sights are Ashley Express Ghost rings installed by Ashley Emerson himself. Ashley is a good friend.

And no I've never been compared to a fat Val before:D :D But I like it....:D :D :D
 
Real potent round and a favorite of some guys up here in Alaska. I know a Doctor who has one on a Mark X mauser, no brake, and we restocked it to about 7 pounds...ouch!


My motto: if I cant kill it with a 375, then Im not going to hunt it...

WildtoomuchformeAlaska
 
Wildalaska,
What type of stocks do you guys use and are they carbon fiber or glass? And have you had any cracking problems?
 
Penetration of the the .458 Lott?

I realize that this post is now quite old but I was searching for information on the .458 Lott and stumbled upon it.

I also stumbled upon the following and was wondering if anyone could comment about the following statments that I found from Garrett Cartridges

Very interestingly, if one takes the Hornady 500-grain .458 diameter solid bullet and compares the penetration that results from impact speeds varying from about 1500-fps to 2500-fps, one finds that the higher impact speeds produce the least penetration. When driven to about 1500-fps (as the 45-70 will do) one finds that such solids produce nearly 6-feet of penetration in wet newspapers. When the same bullet is driven to about 2100-fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Winchester Magnum) one finds that the penetration is reduced to about 4 to 4 and 1/2 feet. When one tests the same bullet at 2300-2400 fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Lott) one finds that the penetration comes up nearly 20% short of that produced by the 458 Winchester. And when one tests the same bullet at the blistering speeds characteristic of the mighty 460 Weatherby Magnum, one finds that the penetration achieved is the most shallow produced by the various 458s.

The entire "article" can be found here:

HTML:
<a href="http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.asp">Penetration: the 45-70 & 458 Magnums</a>
 
Hmmm, I like Garrett Cartridges but I'm not so sure that I believe anything that they say now...

I found totally opposite information reguarding their statements here:

http://www.470mbogo.com/PenetrationComparison.html

These results are more what one would expect.

So the .458 Lott would outpenetrate the .458 Win Mag which would outpenetrate a heavy 45-70 Gvt. load. Which is exactly what I would have thought before stubling upon Garretts info...

I guess that's what I get for looking up info on the internet! LOL!
 
Did a search and came up with nothin.
Try using Google. :scrutiny: It will lead you here, here, and here.

according to Ruger---will also chamber the .458 Win-----is this true???
Yes.

Will a Ruger #1 in .458 Lott also do this??
Yes.

What are the advantages of the .458 Lott over a .458 Win.
Basically, a larger case capacity (= higher velocity).

where would you find ammo for this beast??
Any gun store that carries Hornady ammunition will sell it, although they may have to special order for you.
 
I believe one of the design criteria of the Lott was that the rifle would shoot .458 W.M. with acceptable accuracy and power. You know, you shoot so many buffalo that you have to buy ammunition at the Indian Store. Since the cartridge is little different from earlier long belted .45s like the Watt, I figure it has to be the throat dimensions.
 
There is evidence that a large conventional bullet will penetrate further when pushed slower, but you DON"T USE CONVENTIONAL BULLETS IN AFRICA. The reason for this is a typical expanding type bullet will expand due to velocity on impact. If you push it slower it remains intact and will not expand, thereby allowing it to penetrate further. So it is plausible that a hot & heavy 45-70 with a solid will out-penetrate a .458 Lott with poorly constructed bullets; but you will have a hard time convincing me that a 45-70 will penetrate more than a .458 Lott when solids are used. This new string of 45-70 ammo simply a marketing ploy, not to say that these cartridges will not kill a cape buff or the like, it is just not as proficient as doing so as the express rounds created for this work. Both rounds (with solids) can go right through a buff, or even an elephant, but the slow round will not create as much cavitation (AKA Hydrostatic Shock), and therefore will not take down the beast as readily.

As far as the .458 Lott I have not been to Africa myself, but it is a well regarded stopper from any credible account I have ever heard. The .458 WM has less of a reputation due to its slower velocity and less cavitation. If you want a bolt-action dangerous game gun, the .458 Lott will deliver, but it also delivers a punishing recoil. I have not fired a Lott, but I have had the pleasure of shooting a friends .458 WM and can appreciate what a few extra fps would feel like.

End of Rant...
 
I am sharing what has been shared with me, I have no direct knowledge of this.

There is more to the story than 'the 458 Lott is a bit ballistically superior due to a bit more length, plus it can fire a 458 winmag in a pinch'

The 458 winmag developed a very bad repuation in Africa.

It was originally developed as a relatively inexpensive boltgun chambering for the upper middle class American hunter going to Africa who couldn't afford a 'proper english double'. It was designed to work in a standard length action. It had some real problems. For starters:
-factory listed ballistics were for longer barrels than most hunting rifles
-even correcting for barrel length, in the real world the cartridge did not produce the velocities claimed
-very poor quality control
-the powder of the day didn't stand up very well to African weather, and weren't sufficiently tested in that environment. many powders had a tendancy to clump up.
-many reports of boxes with different powder types found in dismantled cartridges. It is unknown if this was due to simply using whatever was leftover or available, or if there was frequent powder changing due to experimenting, and somehow in the end all the loaded cartridges were gathered up and boxed, mixed. Anyways, this lead to very different shooting results from the same box
-to acheive the higher velocities in a standard length case, the powder had to be compressed. Often on the long bumpy trip to africa, or after the first cartridge was fired and big recoil is experienced, the bullet would end up pushing out, screwing with overall length and making feeding a real issue.
-Cartridge loaded to high pressures, combined with African heat, often the cartridges would not easily eject. NOT good when elephant is charging.

(some of these issues were 'dealt with' in country by Proffesional Hunters...basically the hunting guides...who would pull the bullet, dump the loaded powder, add powder they had faith in, and reseated the bullets. This lead to cartridges that were of proper length and hence would feed, and powder that wouldn't clump, AND pressures that were much less likely to cause the cartridge to bind...but this lowered real world ballistics even further. Still, a gun that goes BANG a little softer is better than a gun that isn't working)

The prevailing wisdom was that most people unable to afford the 'classics' like 450/500 Nitro Express were much better served by turning to the 40 caliber african cartridges like the 416 rigby rather than trying to us the 458 Winchester.

Many parts of this reputation are not valid any more. Powders improve and improve, now the 458 winchester is loaded to match it's claimed numbers, loaded consistantly, loaded with powders tested in african type weather, loaded with more potent powder so less compression is needed, etc.

There still seems to be the 'sticky cartridge' problem though.

so the 458 Lott must be looked at through that prism. Also note, the 460 Weatherby also has a repuation of being loaded to high enough pressures that there can be extraction issues. The 458 Lott, not only going for a longer case to get higher velocities and remove the risk of compacted powder pushing out bullets, spent a lot of time making sure pressures were such that cartridge bind was not a problem. (the big Dakota chamberings were also designed with an eye to keeping pressures low to prevent the case from binding in the action)

So while the 458 Lott lands between the 458 winchester magnum and the 460 weatherby magnum, it is considered by many people to be superior to both.

"460weatherby sticks and kicks!" is often used to point out that even some well established african sport hunters and even the professional hunters found the 458 Lott managable in recoil, but the 460 excessive, and of course, prone to bind.
 
According to Terry Blauwkamp:
If you are going to use the 458 Winchester, USE ONLY FACTORY AMMO. You read it right, use no reloads in the 458 Winchester for hunting. Of all the calibers that are NOT user friendly, this one tops the list. Use your reloads for practice and then be sure and zero and hunt using Factory ammo.
FWIW.
 
akodo, I have heard very similar tales to the accounts you detailed above, and therefore would have no fear of gong to Africa with a .458 Lott as my insurance policy.
 
This is a rare example of a thread worth necromancing.
__________________
Farewell my friends! Going into retirement (98%) from gun board discussions, due to hobbies / work / life /girlfriend. Hopefully I've passed a little more wisdom than BS over the years. PM with questions - I'll check in every now and then. You will probably see me in the reloading forum however, as that's one of the hobbies I'm greatly ramping up
Sorry to hear that. I'm going to miss words like"necromancing":)
 
Farewell my friends! Going into retirement (98%) from gun board discussions, due to hobbies / work / life /girlfriend. Hopefully I've passed a little more wisdom than BS over the years. PM with questions - I'll check in every now and then. You will probably see me in the reloading forum however, as that's one of the hobbies I'm greatly ramping up.
I missed that the first time around...Doc, you will certainly be missed, by someone :p...definitely check in from time to time. See you around, assuming you don't see me first. :D
 
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