andrewdl007
Member
I never much cared for single shot rifles, but after recently watching "Zulu" and "Zulu Dawn" the Martini-Henry has piqued my interest. Does anyone out there have experience with the rifle? What do you think?
Tell me about the Martini-Henry
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Comrade Mike
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I think if you pursue buying and shooting one, you're in for a lot.
It's a very cool rifle after you clean it up, but making ammunition for one is a long process.
It's a very cool rifle after you clean it up, but making ammunition for one is a long process.
BCRider
Member
I have two Martini actions. One is an old Greener 12Ga shotgun. The plan is to make up a rifle barrel to fit some day soon since it's a break down model. The other is a BSA Martini action rimfire target rifle. If you look up "accuracy" in an encyclopedia there's more often than not a picture of one of these old BSA rifles.... 
Both are very cool actions to operate and shoot if you're into single shot actions.
Sadly none of the replica companies seem to make any Martini rifle clones. But with a little searching they are not hard to find originals in good operating condition. The action is one of the tougher ones so even re-barreling to something current as long as it's not anything uber high for pressure is very doable. After all the old Zulu era 577/450 chambered rifles were converted over to .303British and used for some time before being replaced with Lee Metfords and later on Lee Enfields. So the action can take pretty good pressure.
As for shooting single shot rifles I find that the need to handle and load every cartridge makes me enjoy each shot and the prep that goes with it. As a result I only own one semi auto rifle, a Ruger 10-22. Everything else is single shot, lever or bolt action. And the single shots are my favourites.
If you're wondering what sort of drugs I'm on then perhaps it won't be as much fun as you may think in your case. But the good news is that it'll be easy enough to sell again if you find you don't care for the whole experience. On the other hand if it wins you over to "our" side then you'll suddenly be looking at a whole range of various actions that will need to be experienced.... (where's that devilish "evil grin" smilie when you need it)
Both are very cool actions to operate and shoot if you're into single shot actions.
Sadly none of the replica companies seem to make any Martini rifle clones. But with a little searching they are not hard to find originals in good operating condition. The action is one of the tougher ones so even re-barreling to something current as long as it's not anything uber high for pressure is very doable. After all the old Zulu era 577/450 chambered rifles were converted over to .303British and used for some time before being replaced with Lee Metfords and later on Lee Enfields. So the action can take pretty good pressure.
As for shooting single shot rifles I find that the need to handle and load every cartridge makes me enjoy each shot and the prep that goes with it. As a result I only own one semi auto rifle, a Ruger 10-22. Everything else is single shot, lever or bolt action. And the single shots are my favourites.
If you're wondering what sort of drugs I'm on then perhaps it won't be as much fun as you may think in your case. But the good news is that it'll be easy enough to sell again if you find you don't care for the whole experience. On the other hand if it wins you over to "our" side then you'll suddenly be looking at a whole range of various actions that will need to be experienced.... (where's that devilish "evil grin" smilie when you need it
)
barnbwt
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An earlier incarnation, the Martini-Peabody, is still currently reproduced. It's basically the same action but with an external hammer rather than internal striker.
I personally think they have the prettiest lines and stock of any service rifle of the era
TCB
I personally think they have the prettiest lines and stock of any service rifle of the era
TCB
LAGS
Member
I would love to have an old Martini rifle, and I want to re-barrel it to the 7.62x54 cartridge
They are strong actions , but because of their age and have been designed back in the Black Powder days, it is best to stay with a lower pressure cartridge. Plus the rifle is set up for a Large rimmed case already and the Russian fits that bill .
It is also more powerful than the .303 and easier to find.
Other caliber choices would be the 45/70 and .444 Marlin.
I have seen several Martini Cadets re-barreled to the .357 Mag also.
They are strong actions , but because of their age and have been designed back in the Black Powder days, it is best to stay with a lower pressure cartridge. Plus the rifle is set up for a Large rimmed case already and the Russian fits that bill .
It is also more powerful than the .303 and easier to find.
Other caliber choices would be the 45/70 and .444 Marlin.
I have seen several Martini Cadets re-barreled to the .357 Mag also.
I'd like to own a MH just because of how they were used at Rorke's Drift. That was some piece of soldiering. Amazing really. IMO it rank right up there with the Battle Of Thermopylae. Soldiers stood their ground against terrible odds in both cases. I might even have included Pickett's Charge in there if they had been successful. But soldiers did their job and followed their orders against impossible odds there. There are certainly many other cases where soldiers showed their mettle but Rorke's Drift stands out IMO. I can only imagine what it was like to see 4000 Zulu coming at a force of 150. The Zulu were no pushovers in battle either. They were battle hardened in almost every way. Anyone who can hold their own in a situation like that has proven something about themselves big time. And the weapons they used must have been pretty effective too.
Comrade Mike
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I have two Martini actions. One is an old Greener 12Ga shotgun. The plan is to make up a rifle barrel to fit some day soon since it's a break down model. The other is a BSA Martini action rimfire target rifle. If you look up "accuracy" in an encyclopedia there's more often than not a picture of one of these old BSA rifles....
Both are very cool actions to operate and shoot if you're into single shot actions.
Sadly none of the replica companies seem to make any Martini rifle clones. But with a little searching they are not hard to find originals in good operating condition. The action is one of the tougher ones so even re-barreling to something current as long as it's not anything uber high for pressure is very doable. After all the old Zulu era 577/450 chambered rifles were converted over to .303British and used for some time before being replaced with Lee Metfords and later on Lee Enfields. So the action can take pretty good pressure.
As for shooting single shot rifles I find that the need to handle and load every cartridge makes me enjoy each shot and the prep that goes with it. As a result I only own one semi auto rifle, a Ruger 10-22. Everything else is single shot, lever or bolt action. And the single shots are my favourites.
If you're wondering what sort of drugs I'm on then perhaps it won't be as much fun as you may think in your case. But the good news is that it'll be easy enough to sell again if you find you don't care for the whole experience. On the other hand if it wins you over to "our" side then you'll suddenly be looking at a whole range of various actions that will need to be experienced.... (where's that devilish "evil grin" smilie when you need it
That's not true at all. there are plenty of Martini Henry's out here in the original 577/450
rodinal220
Member
I bought a few from IMA(International Military Antiques) and AC(Atlanta Cutlery) and have been very happy with them. The "un-touched" models need A LOT of scrubbing and TLC,but worth it.The cleaned models are good options for those who do not wish to get dirty.
The MKIV's are the best as far as condition as they were Arsenal refurbed in India right before WWI. The MKII is the "true" Zulu era pattern,and they do sell 1870's marked guns.
Some guns may need gun smithing;wood repair,metal smithing,making small parts.
Bore diameter is different for the MKIV and the MKII so projos will be different.Loaded factory ammo is expensive.Loading your own is an investment in reloading gear and Black Powder cartridge loading with some twists.
I would go to this board as its THE place for all your questions/answers:
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/
The MKIV's are the best as far as condition as they were Arsenal refurbed in India right before WWI. The MKII is the "true" Zulu era pattern,and they do sell 1870's marked guns.
Some guns may need gun smithing;wood repair,metal smithing,making small parts.
Bore diameter is different for the MKIV and the MKII so projos will be different.Loaded factory ammo is expensive.Loading your own is an investment in reloading gear and Black Powder cartridge loading with some twists.
I would go to this board as its THE place for all your questions/answers:
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/
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Curator
Member
Rodinal220 is right on. Martini Henrys are available from a number of sources in good shooting condition. The 577-450 cartridge is pretty much a reloader only proposition and somewhat costly to tool up for. I have several Martini-action rifles and appreciate their simplicity, fast lock time and accuracy. I get a lot of attention when I shoot my 577-450 Martinis at my gun club. Both the size of the cartridge and the smoky BOOM are impressive. As W.C. Fields once said; "you can never have tee many Martunys."
LAGS
Member
I have also seen some of the Pakistani Khyber made copies that got importd a while back.
Believe it or not, they are good receivers to build a target rifle out of.
The Metal is probably made from old Railroad tracks, and forged by hand up in a place called Darra.
But now those guys have switched from making Lee Enfield, and M H copies and consintrate on making good functional AK's and Takorov's.
Believe it or not, they are good receivers to build a target rifle out of.
The Metal is probably made from old Railroad tracks, and forged by hand up in a place called Darra.
But now those guys have switched from making Lee Enfield, and M H copies and consintrate on making good functional AK's and Takorov's.
Romeo 33 Delta
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- Apr 17, 2011
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- 402
One of my favorite rifles. In my collection are: Mk-I, Mk-I/II, Mk-II, Mk-III (which I shoot), Mk-VIa, Mk-VIb, Mk-VIc (which I also shoot) all in .577-450 MH, as well as one rebuilt "Citadel" in .303 British (which I shoot), a big bunch of Cadets in various calibers (all shooters), five different models of the BSA/Martini Internationals .22LR target rifles and even a couple Vickers Empire and Jubilee .22LR target rifles (all shooters). You can throw in a Peabody and Winchester-Lee Vertical as well. Yes, I LOVE MARTINIS (and their near relatives)!
If you want a Martini, the Mk-II are currently one of the more available Marks from IMA and Atlanta Cutlery and are only slightly too new (1882+/-)to have been in service in for the Zulu War in the first half of 1879 ... but are close enough for all but the most rabidly afflicted with Martiniitis. It is still in the original .577-450 M-H which does make finding off-the-shelf ammo next to impossible and makes reloading an expensive proposition both in terms of dies and brass. Bullets too are limited in availability and to get the most out of it, you really should get into paper patching. I do "sin" by not using "Holy Black" as a propellant, rather opting for Alliant 5744 which I've found works just fine for me.
However, be careful about Kyber copies which are floating around out there in the Internet and outfits like SOG. These are NOT shooters by any stretch of the imagination. Likewise, the Nepalese "Gehendra" rifles from IMA and AC are Martini-like, but are NOT considered shooters.
What is correct (though not for the Zulu Wars) and very shootable are the "Citadel" arsenal rebuilt Martinis. The rifles are slightly shorter than a Mk-II with about 28-30" barrels and chambered in .303 British. I reload, but Privi or Remington .303 would be just fine. You would have an easy-to-feed, genuine Martini large frame rifle. These crop up on Gunbroker now and again ... just be careful not to get a Kyber copy.
Want to know more about Martinis? Go over to British Militaria Forums for starters. We folks overe there have been collecting, shooting and talking about Martinis for decades!
If you want a Martini, the Mk-II are currently one of the more available Marks from IMA and Atlanta Cutlery and are only slightly too new (1882+/-)to have been in service in for the Zulu War in the first half of 1879 ... but are close enough for all but the most rabidly afflicted with Martiniitis. It is still in the original .577-450 M-H which does make finding off-the-shelf ammo next to impossible and makes reloading an expensive proposition both in terms of dies and brass. Bullets too are limited in availability and to get the most out of it, you really should get into paper patching. I do "sin" by not using "Holy Black" as a propellant, rather opting for Alliant 5744 which I've found works just fine for me.
However, be careful about Kyber copies which are floating around out there in the Internet and outfits like SOG. These are NOT shooters by any stretch of the imagination. Likewise, the Nepalese "Gehendra" rifles from IMA and AC are Martini-like, but are NOT considered shooters.
What is correct (though not for the Zulu Wars) and very shootable are the "Citadel" arsenal rebuilt Martinis. The rifles are slightly shorter than a Mk-II with about 28-30" barrels and chambered in .303 British. I reload, but Privi or Remington .303 would be just fine. You would have an easy-to-feed, genuine Martini large frame rifle. These crop up on Gunbroker now and again ... just be careful not to get a Kyber copy.
Want to know more about Martinis? Go over to British Militaria Forums for starters. We folks overe there have been collecting, shooting and talking about Martinis for decades!
OP
OP
andrewdl007
Member
Does anyone have experience with the untouched rifles from Atlanta Cutlery?
The AC and IMA rifles all came from the same lot. The MkIVs are generally just cosmetically challenged and need cleaning (Kramers). The MkIIs need more TLCand the stock is often/usually split at the wrist frim the stock bolt rusting and swelling. Also note that the Brit versions are good to go but the Nepal made versions may or may not be safe to fire and must have bore size checked as they vary and are regularly quite small ( like .451 vs .468).
rodinal220
Member
The IMA/AC guns and other items all came from the "Nepal Cache" where IMA made a deal with the Nepal govt to buy the contents of the Royal Armoury. These items where stored stacked like cord wood and covered in Yak grease,bird droppings among other things,in a structure like that in Beau Geste .
The cleaned rifles are your best best if your the anal type,but remember these guns have been in poor storage conditions for well over a hundred years.They will not be perfect.
The untouched rifles generally are good buys but some "may" need some wood/metal repair,they may have minor pitting,but are generally good shooter. Many have received excellent rifles. Are you handy and have some skills??
Plenty of youtube vids on what is generally involved in dealing with these. Take a look and see if its for you.
ALL the M-Hs from IMA/AC are British made,the Snider-Enfields are Nepalese made but good shooters and have proven safe with correct BP loads.
The crap SOG tried to foist on the public were counterfeit Khyber-Pass death traps. Beware many service members are legally importing both good Ex-Brit stuff and Khyberpoop from Afghanistan.
Khyber-Pass gun= wall hanger only.
Educate your self on British weapon markings.
All things antique British weapon:
britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/
IMA Nepal Cache:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDWWH6qSpeY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwA8UVmGG7w
Good M-H info:
http://www.martinihenry.com/
The cleaned rifles are your best best if your the anal type,but remember these guns have been in poor storage conditions for well over a hundred years.They will not be perfect.
The untouched rifles generally are good buys but some "may" need some wood/metal repair,they may have minor pitting,but are generally good shooter. Many have received excellent rifles. Are you handy and have some skills??
Plenty of youtube vids on what is generally involved in dealing with these. Take a look and see if its for you.
ALL the M-Hs from IMA/AC are British made,the Snider-Enfields are Nepalese made but good shooters and have proven safe with correct BP loads.
The crap SOG tried to foist on the public were counterfeit Khyber-Pass death traps. Beware many service members are legally importing both good Ex-Brit stuff and Khyberpoop from Afghanistan.
Khyber-Pass gun= wall hanger only.
Educate your self on British weapon markings.
All things antique British weapon:
britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/
IMA Nepal Cache:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDWWH6qSpeY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwA8UVmGG7w
Good M-H info:
http://www.martinihenry.com/
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LAGS
Member
@ Roninal220
The one thin the Pakistani's and Afgans have been able to Perfect on their rifles is the Stampings and Proof Marks.
The Rifles are Hit and Miss as far as Quality, but the markings are true to form.
I am not going to say how , but I know guys who are shooting these rifles in the areas where they were made.
But I have seen some of the Lee Enfields that I would shoot, if they had a Better quality barrel.
The receivers were excellent, but they have problems making good barrels.
The one thin the Pakistani's and Afgans have been able to Perfect on their rifles is the Stampings and Proof Marks.
The Rifles are Hit and Miss as far as Quality, but the markings are true to form.
I am not going to say how , but I know guys who are shooting these rifles in the areas where they were made.
But I have seen some of the Lee Enfields that I would shoot, if they had a Better quality barrel.
The receivers were excellent, but they have problems making good barrels.
arizona98tj
Member
I bought a MH .577/.450 Mk-IV back in the '70s when I was part timing in a little gun shop in Chesapeake, VA. (was in the Navy and had a reloading habit to feed) It has the original leather sling and the Wilkinson Sword (London) bayonet (with scabbard) as well. I have a set of Lee reloading dies for it which I've not used since buying them just last summer. I have a batch of B.E.L.L. brass I formed and loaded back when I bought the rifle. Still have a few rounds of it left. Picked up some formed 24 gauge Mactech brass last year when I got the dies. It is balloon head brass so not as good as the B.E.L.L. But I'm sure it will hold up to some low to mid-range loads. Mine is a shooter, not a collector, as I've done some preservation work on it.
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