Tell me if I've got the right idea re: neck sizing
- Thread starter Rmeju
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Rmeju, first, the case has a case length, head space is not a case thing, the case has a length from the shoulder/datum to the head of the case, that is the reason L.E. Wilson labels their case gage as case length gages, others refer to their gages as head space gages.
The chamber has head space, head space is measured from the shoulder/datum to the bolt face, head space, to me, is a blank that is to be filled in as is , after I fill in the blank I use the diminution to measure cases before firing, after after firing and again after sizing. I have more confident in my equipment than most reloaders, I adjust my die to and or off the shell holder with a feeler gage.
Back to neck sizing, 918V is correct, neck sizing is neck sizing, there are no shades and or excuses, anything beyond neck sizing is sizing, and as 918V said, there is no way to neck size with a full length sizer if the die contacts the shoulder after the die contacts the case body, there are degrees of sizing, anything less than knowing the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the head of the case is just going through the motion, again, I adjust the die to avoid sizing the case more than necessary, without filling in the blank after head space a reloader is talking about reloading, sizing, neck sizing, and bumping. I can not bump, again, when the sizer die bumps? the shoulder the same die has already contacted the case body and case shoulder etc., again, I control the length of the case with the threads provided on my press and die, and because installing a micrometer is not convent I use the feeler gage.
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/7mm Remington Magnum.pdf
Notice the link furnished head space diminutions on the chamber, not the case.
F. Guffey
The chamber has head space, head space is measured from the shoulder/datum to the bolt face, head space, to me, is a blank that is to be filled in as is , after I fill in the blank I use the diminution to measure cases before firing, after after firing and again after sizing. I have more confident in my equipment than most reloaders, I adjust my die to and or off the shell holder with a feeler gage.
Back to neck sizing, 918V is correct, neck sizing is neck sizing, there are no shades and or excuses, anything beyond neck sizing is sizing, and as 918V said, there is no way to neck size with a full length sizer if the die contacts the shoulder after the die contacts the case body, there are degrees of sizing, anything less than knowing the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the head of the case is just going through the motion, again, I adjust the die to avoid sizing the case more than necessary, without filling in the blank after head space a reloader is talking about reloading, sizing, neck sizing, and bumping. I can not bump, again, when the sizer die bumps? the shoulder the same die has already contacted the case body and case shoulder etc., again, I control the length of the case with the threads provided on my press and die, and because installing a micrometer is not convent I use the feeler gage.
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/7mm Remington Magnum.pdf
Notice the link furnished head space diminutions on the chamber, not the case.
F. Guffey
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If you want to have your cake and eat it too, you can take your FL die and lap it in using 3-5 fired cases with the necks cut off. This will open up the body to about .001" under fired dimensions and you'll be able to FL size with impunity without working the case much at all.
It's alot of work and only works for that particular chamber.
It's alot of work and only works for that particular chamber.
Clark
Member
fguffey,
I am going to recycle the pic I made for the first page of this thread.
Never say never.
The Di Chem was rubbed off the neck and not the shoulder.
It was a fast taper cartridge: 7.62x54R, but there are other fast taper and long necked cartridges.
I am going to recycle the pic I made for the first page of this thread.
Never say never.
The Di Chem was rubbed off the neck and not the shoulder.
It was a fast taper cartridge: 7.62x54R, but there are other fast taper and long necked cartridges.
housecat
Member
The belted magnum head spaces on the belt. When neck sizing with a neck die, head space is always on the shoulder. This gives 0 head clearance. The area of the brass directly in front of the belt, towards the mouth, becomes unsupported by as much as .015" . This unsupported area, will at times, separate prematurely. The results look almost like a case head separation, but is not, Also, case life is cut short at times by splits or problems in the neck area. Eliminating the expander is the best way to gain longer brass life. Or custom dies that do not overwork the brass. http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/7mm%20Remington%20Magnum.pdf
My previous experience with rifle reloading has been for semiauto rounds, so I always FL sized them. I just bought a 375 H&H, with a a three die set so I could neck size the cases. So, should I just forget about necksizing? I've reloaded for many years, but this is my first experience with a belted cartridge.
Thanks, in advance.
243winxb
Member
Housecat, I always FL sized my 7mm rem mag. & 300 win mags. Here is a thread where there was a problem when only neck sizing. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=620692 Take note that the neck sized brass that gave the problem was very hard to chamber. Is it a common problem? I do not know.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=621161 Innovative would be te expert on the subject, not me.
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fguffey,
”I am going to recycle the pic I made for the first page of this thread”
OK, I assume you know, I know, that method is not necessary, I assume you understand the taper of the round case creates varying diameters, I assume you understand I am not interested in wiping stain off the neck of a case, I assume you understand if you want to know when a case neck is being partially sized in a full length sizing die the best choice of cases is a fired case.
Without the paint, a reloader should be able to measure the neck diameter, I do not know a reloader that can not look at the neck and see the neck that is partially sized (neck down) and expanded when the expander plug is pulled through will have two different neck diameters. I would suggest you show the top of the die, does it have the primer punch/neck sizer plug assemble installed.
F. Guffey
”I am going to recycle the pic I made for the first page of this thread”
OK, I assume you know, I know, that method is not necessary, I assume you understand the taper of the round case creates varying diameters, I assume you understand I am not interested in wiping stain off the neck of a case, I assume you understand if you want to know when a case neck is being partially sized in a full length sizing die the best choice of cases is a fired case.
Without the paint, a reloader should be able to measure the neck diameter, I do not know a reloader that can not look at the neck and see the neck that is partially sized (neck down) and expanded when the expander plug is pulled through will have two different neck diameters. I would suggest you show the top of the die, does it have the primer punch/neck sizer plug assemble installed.
F. Guffey
housecat
Member
243winxb, thanks.
I hadn't really thought about difficulty in chambering. I was more worried about getting a face full of super hot gas in the event of a case failure. Prudence indicates FL sizing. The funny thing is I was going to neck size the case in the hope of prolonging case life. Next time, I'll ask questions before buying dies.
I hadn't really thought about difficulty in chambering. I was more worried about getting a face full of super hot gas in the event of a case failure. Prudence indicates FL sizing. The funny thing is I was going to neck size the case in the hope of prolonging case life. Next time, I'll ask questions before buying dies.
StretchNM
Member
If it were me, I would get a Lee Collet die and neck size. You'll be able to tell when it comes time for you to full-length size. When guys neck size, it doesn't mean that they never FL size the brass, they're just refraining from doing it every time.
Thanks everyone for taking the time to help me with the basics. As usual, I am thankful for the THR community knowledge-base.
I'm going to start a new thread to drill down on some of the more specific questions this thread has raised!
Thanks again all!
I'm going to start a new thread to drill down on some of the more specific questions this thread has raised!
Thanks again all!
witchhunter
Member
If you worried about using neck sized rounds for hunting, you can always cycle them through the action to make sure they fit easily. Mark any tight ones for FL sizing after the next firing at the range with a marker and keep them separate.
StretchNM
Member
Well, maybe the cases are burning out (splitting, etc) before you need to bump the shoulder back some. Eventually, you need to take should back a little, and you can't do that with a neck sizer. I can assure you, with 22-250, as just one example, reloading the brass 16 times without full length sizing would not be possible. Somewhere between 1 and 16, the brass is going to decide that you can't close the bolt.
I don't have a 22-250. I have 5-6 loads some maybe a few more in my 30-06 & my 243 somewhere over 30 I lost count or just quit counting long ago. I've only lost cases on my 30-06. My 223 I usually only shout still cases. they get neck splits before they need anything. I usually lose one out of every 5 after the 3 use. I don't keep them sorted to know how many firings are on each case tho.
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