Tell me which of these scopes you'd choose if you were me..

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GunGoBoom

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This is for a 21.8" bbled .308 win - a Saiga - an "all-purpose" rifle, but which likely would be used for Colo & NM Wapiti at ranges out to 275-300 yds (or possibly SHTF, in that unlikely scenario). I'm pretty much wide open to suggestions, but I'm looking at few different ones. I have a 2-7x32mm Bushnell Elite 3200 on it at present, but now I've decided to opt for a little more magnif since I have the iron sights that I can see under the scope mount for short ranges (out to about 150yds), and since there's ample room for a larger objective due to the high mount (it's a rock solid side mount). So I'd like something with 9-12 or more top power for longer shots (150-300). So the criteria are best scope under $200 before tax retail, with a 3-9ish or a tad more magnification. How would you compare & contrast some of my early choices?:

1. Sightron S-1 2.5-10x44mm, $185.44 (Natchez). It's not an SII, but it's got a flexible magnification range, and a largish objective, which makes for a nice exit pupil size on 10x. But is the S1 iffy quality? Never owned any Sightrons before, but I hear 'tings' (good), to paraphrase DeNiro.

2. Swift Premier 4-12x50mm, $199.95 (E. Arthur Brown Co.). Have one Swift Premier; like it. There's also a 3-9x50mm Swift Premier for the same price.

3. Burris Fullfield II, 3-9x40mm, $199.95 (SWFA). This choice seems a great value because it has Bal Plex and comes with free Burris Landmark 8x32 Binocs as well (or 20x50mm mini spotting scope for $10 less). But this is a smaller objective size.

4. Mueller Extreme 3-10x44mm, $149.95 (The Optic Zone). Seems like a heck of a bargain as well.

5. Bushnell Elite 3200, 3-10x40mm, only $169 (The Optic Zone). Not bad; has the Rainguard coating.

Unfortunately, I had to rule out the Leupold VX-1 3-9x40mm on principle, since the gloss versions are $199 everywhere, yet the matte version (which I want) is $219 - screw that; I'm not paying $20 more for a finish which should cost no more to produce, but I would rule this choice back in if I could find it under $200 in matte. And the Weaver Classic V and Nikon Buckmaster (comparable lines) don't seem particularly outstanding when comparing price/features to these others.

Or are NONE of my choices up to snuff, given how much I'd have invested in tags & paid hunting lease/lodging money for that one precious shot at a big ol' bull elk?

What other suggestions? May I should go for a fixed power, since I'm using irons for short ranges and the scope only for longer shots - maybe a fixed 10? Also what are good rings that can be had in a seriously LOW config for Weaver base - how about the Burris Zee?
 
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I can't help you much except to say that:

1) I've got sightrons (both I and II) and Leupolds on everything from my Remmy LTR to my marlin lever guns to my CZ .22s, and all of them have performed well with no problems.

2) both companies have great warranty service even if you aren't the original owner, and you can probably save some bucks by buying used (just about all of my scopes come from internet forums or ebay.)
 
the weaver v series is the bargain in scopes out there--you could get a 3x9 gpt $139 from natchez. It's optics will be as good or better than the ones you mentioned. Of the ones you mentioned...The Burris' are good, solid scopes, and I remember the one guy from Bear Basin I believe it was saying they considered them one of the best/underrated at that price point. I don't own a swift but have heard they are actually decent for the $. I have not been impressed by sightron, despite all the raves you hear online. I had one, which I sent back. It was as much or more than a nikon and a weaver I had, and inferior to both optically and finsih wise. My brother has sent his back in twice now, I forget what the problem was with the first one, and the second one has the worst parallax problems I've ever seen. Bushnell elite's are ok, but the weaver is better for less money.
 
Thanks; that weaver recommendation would be interesting, except that...

Natchez's website shows that the ONLY Weaver products which they carry are "Weaver Rings and Bases" - no scopes:

http://www.natchezss.com/category.cfm?category=20&CFID=463836&CFTOKEN=18027851 click on Weaver...

The Weaver "V" 3-9x38mm is $149 at The Optic Zone, but if I'm getting a 'plain jane' 3-9x40, I think I'd go with the Burris FF II, due to the free binocs and bal plex reticle, or the Elite 3200. The FFII is fully-multi-coated (as is the Classic V, granted), and with all the other features on the Burris, I don't see how the Weaver could possibly best it - do you know of any specific feature or construction aspect that makes the Weaver V somehow superior to the Burris FF2? Look at this chart, for example:

http://www.riflescopes.com/departme...e_scopes/burris_fullfield_ii_rifle_scopes.htm

I don't necessarily doubt you, and honestly, I've got 2 burris scopes and I'm not all that impressed, but they're not FF2s - one is a "Compact", which I'm not sure what that would be comparable to, whether the FF2, or something higher or lower, and the other is a Scout 2.75, which is OK, but also hard to compare apples to apples with my other scopes which have larger objectives. I've generally been quite happy with Bushnells, which I have the most of by far - I've tried almost all of their lines except the lowest ones - I've got 4 Banners (on rimfires), 1 Trophy, 1 Legend, 1 Scopechief, 1 Elite 3200, and 1 Elite 4200. Thanks for the warning about Sightron. Anyone have any experiences with the Mueller Extreme line or any other recommendations in this lowish price range?
 
Natchez's website shows that the ONLY Weaver products which they carry are "Weaver Rings and Bases" - no scopes:
Click to expand...

natchez for some reason makes it a PIA to look up the weaver's on their website, but they are there. Click on the link for the e-catalog and you can look them up that way.

I think the optics are better on the weavers than on the ff ii. The ff ii like I said is a fine, workhorse scope, and Burris' customer service, at least before beretta took them over, has always been top notch (I have never had a problem with a scope, but once had my puppy eat the scope cover, and once lost the adjustment covers, and in both instances when I called Burris about getting replacements, they sent them out to me the same day for free). I have heard people say that with the ff ii's its hit or miss on lense quality--if you look through half a dozen one might be noticeably better than the others. Who knows. The one I had had mediocre optics, but worked well in all other respects. I have an old fullfield that is my oldest scope--personally I referred the old long ones with the offset adjustment turrets.

If possible, why don't you try going someplace like a cabelas or gander mountain or whatever larger chain place is near you and compare side by side.
 
I'd be careful..

there's scopes, then there's scopes

you'll get guys to reply that like their scopes for target. Different program when you take them out in the cold, wet when hunting

Rather than worry about a few bucks, get the best one you can. Make SURE it's fogproof/waterproof if you're using it for hunting. Scopes are one thing that typically "you get what you pay for"

Also, throw away the factory caps and get Butler Creek flip caps

I use Burris, Leo, and B&L. Had REAL bad experiences with cheap scopes. I've worked in a gun shop. Swift, Trashco, etc. are crap for hunting. Easy to see....the cheaper the scope, the more they come back for problems

Been there, done that. I'd rather use a good 4x than a cheap 3x9 or 4x12

Dunno why you want to switch other than just to change. If I were you and keeping shots on an elk sized animal to 300 yards, the 2x7 should be perfect. I think guys get nutty about magnification just like they get nutty about super-magnum "newest, latest, greatest" calibers. If I've got a decent shot at an elk at 300 yards with a 2x7, he's one dead critter.

YMMV.
 
yeah, i was actually thinking that myself--a 2x7 should be plenty of scope for an elk sized animal.

All of my scopes are on hunting rifles, btw. I have more Leupold's than anything else, and like Burris fine (though they have semi self distructed to my mind--liked the old design better, and with the discontinuation of the Signature line its a biiiiig jump price wise from the ff to the Signature Select). I have a B&L 3000, which is the same as a Bushnell 3200 without the rainguard--its fine, a workable scope, nothing that exciting. Let's see, I also still have one Nikon and a couple Weavers. I've never had a problem with a Weaver, and they have some of the best optics in their range. A Weaver GS has better optics IMO than a Leupold VX-ii, Burris Signature, etc, for less money, and arguably a better adjustment system.
 
OK, I'll look more closely at the Weavers. The GS is out of the budget; but perhaps I should expand the budget. Just upping it to $275 would open a pandora's box of additional great choices. Maybe I'll stick with the 2-7 instead however, hmmm. Well, lemme ask you couple questions redneck:

I use Burris, Leo, and B&L. Had REAL bad experiences with cheap scopes. I've worked in a gun shop. Swift, Trashco, etc. are crap for hunting. Easy to see....the cheaper the scope, the more they come back for problems
Click to expand...

OK, (1) Which Burrises? (2) Which Leupolds? (3) by B&L, you mean bausch & lomb, which is now bushnell right - But which line B&L/Bushnells? (5) related question, since the busnell elites have the rainguard, I do consider that a definite advantage for hunting, as it is fogproof and makes the rain into little droplets which lets you see at least something even in the rain, so that should be just about as good of a choice as any I would think, no? (5) what do you mean by "Trashco" - Oh I get it, Tasco; nevermind, (6) What say you about that chart by Burris which I linked to in my post above, that shows the light transmission of the Leupold VX-1 and VX-2, and Nikon Buckmaster to be vastly inferior to even Burris FF2 and Nikon Monarch?
 
OK, here we go - found the V10, 2-10 x 38mm for only $159 at Natchez! I get 3 more top power, give up none on the low end power, and add 4mm of objective lens, and the Weaver quality/warranty - that seems pretty nice:

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cf...l&ammoRecID=&brand=&category=&prodID=SN849405

But I don't know if it's sufficiently different from my elite 3200 to justify a change.....

Also, the 3-9x50mm is $189:

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cf...l&ammoRecID=&brand=&category=&prodID=SN849403

Actually, if I up my budget to $220, I believe I'd get this one over the leupold VX-1 at the same price.

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cf...l&ammoRecID=&brand=&category=&prodID=SN849407

Now that's a sweet scope - 2-10x50mm for $220.

Update: I *think* I've narrowed it down to either the Weaver Classic V10 3-9x50mm ($189) or the Mueller Extreme 3.5-10x44mm ($159) - thoughts? I need durability as a primary feature since I'll be practicing with this dude a lot, as it is a cheapish caliber to shoot, and I've got the chrome lined bbl & chamber.
 
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just a thought, but if you want the leupold and you are already going to spend $199 (plus tax) whats another $20 to get what you want? I'd get the matte black 3-9x40 leupold.
 
Alot of the scope companies charge a little more for matte these days just because thats the most popular and people will pay it. Its not just Leupold.

As far as the Weavers--the only problem with the 2-10x38 is that you get a little bit of that "tunnel effect" with that particular model--optically they are still as good but the longer adjustment range gets you that effect--some don't mind it, some don't like it. The 3-9 doesn't do that. There are other scopes that have it--the last Nikon Monarch I had did it. The Monarch's have traditionally been excellent optically too, btw, though some aren't so hot on Nikon anymore since they moved the scope production to the Phillipines I believe is where it is now.

The scuttlebutt is that the V series weaver's actually have the same glass as the Grand Slams, you just don't get the exactrac adjustment system or the rubber coatiing on the adjustment bell, which personally I find a PIA anyway since it often means the bolt won't clear on many rifles. Not having the exactrac just means you're using the same adjustment system everyone else uses (well, except for the new simmons, and the upper level sightrons that copy the exactrac system) so its not like that's something so awful, and they are still click adjustable.
 
Just my personal opinion here, but of the scopes that you mentioned, I would take the Bushnell Elite 3200. I like the brightness and clarity for the money and the rainguard feature is a really nice feature. Plus the free bag that Bushnell is offering is also very nice.
 
Hey Jon, I guess you would know, huh? :) Thanks! So your opinion is that the Elite 3200 is clearer overall than the Mueller as well; ok. Hmmm. The 3200 3-9x50 is quite a bit larger/heavier than the Mueller or Weaver, which is why I was leaning toward one of the latter.
 
Well that is a little tougher to be honest. The Muellers are outstanding scopes for the money. They are very clear and bright for the amount of money that you have to spend on them. One thing I don't care for with the Muellers is I don't like a German #4 type reticle. Just a little to big looking for me.
 
GunGoBoom,

I just want you to know, that in your search for the cheapest possible scope to put on your rifle, you will get exactly what you desire. :rolleyes:

Don
 
Do tell me how $200 is the "cheapest possible scope", when there are oodles upon oodles of scopes under $150, many many more under $100, less than half, and quite a few more under $50, less than 1/4th of my budget? Frankly, what you just said proves that you are extremely cranially deficient. As the Nuge says, it's a good thing when people like you speak up, so that we'll know who you are - thanks!
 
I wouldn't flame him just yet.. don't forget that you get what you pay for.
 
He deserves roughly 10 times the flaming that I gave him so far for the utter nonsense he spewed - which would be deserved if I had said 'under $50'. But I didn't, and this day and age, there are some fine scopes in the $150-$200 range, due thankfully to the extremely competitive market. Some of us are on a budget ya know.
 
I didn't read all of your post when I responded yesterday, I just sort of skipped to the choices. I would think 7x is plenty for what you need, but I just wanted to ad that when I spoke of sightrons in my earlier post I have no idea about the durability of the SI line. I have them on most of my .22s, but everything bigger than that wears SII. I haven't had any problems, I'm just not sure how good their lower cost scopes handle recoil. I still think Sightron is one of the best values in scopes, very good glass with excellent repeatability and great customer service.

Also, I wanted to welcome Don to the high road. I see him posting on snipers hide a lot, and he knows a thing or two about glass (I'm going out on a limb here and assuming you are the same USSR Don with the binocs everyone raves about). Anyhow, welcome :D
 
Thanks for the welcome, waterhouse. And, BTW, I agree with your assessment of Sightron scopes. Their SII line of scopes is what I would consider a MINIMUM variable power scope to put on a high power rifle, and I believe they cost somewhere around $350-$400. Once you get to the $600-$900 range, many quality scopes are available. And, of course, not everyone can afford that. So save up for it or consider buying a used scope. You would be WAY ahead of the game to buy a used Leupold which comes with a lifetime warranty than to buy a brand new made in China Brand X scope. To think you can buy a quality variable power scope for less than $200 is delusional. Just MHO.

Don
 
he knows a thing or two about glass
Click to expand...

I'm quite sure that you and he *think* he knows a thing or two, but I humbly submit he doesn't know about anything except a scope snob attitude, to say that one cannot get a 'quality' scope under $200 - tell me your definition of 'quality', Don. Let's see, the Bushnells all have the same lifetime warranty as the Leupold, now don't they. Ditto Nikon. Ditto Burris. Ditto others. So how exactly is one ahead of the game by getting a used Leupold over a used anything else? And most all of the glass for scopes is made in Japan, not China, and they may be assembled in any number of places. The Bushnell Elites are said to be tested to 10,000 rounds of .375 H&H magnum, so I think they ought to hold up to some semi-auto .308, and if they don't, there's that lifetime warranty which is every bit as good as Leupold. In what way exactly would the scopes I mentioned fail me? I submit that Don doesn't know 1/100th of what he thinks he knows. The industry loves people like him, so that they can keep charging $300-$600 for scopes that are better, but only marginally so, than $200 ones.

Let's see what we've learned from Don so far:

-Weaver V16s are Chinese-made junk.
-Nikon Buckmasters are Chinese made junk
-Muellers are Chinese made junk
-Bushnell Elite 3200s are Chinese made junk
-Sightron S1s are Chinese made junk
-Burris FF2s are Chinese made junk
-In fact, everything made in China is junk. Just like my Norinco MAK 90.
-In fact, even Leupold VX-1 are Chinese-made junk (news to me), since they can be had under $200.

And he imparted all of that wisdom right off the bat with a condescending, sarcastic attitude - not a auspicious start.

OK, then, you've got some great credibility now....
 
GGB,

LOL, you're really getting worked up about this, aren't you? Since you obviously have never used a quality scope and are determined to buy a cheap scope, what does it matter what I believe? And, I believe your debating tactic of attacking the messenger shows you to be the one lacking in credibility. Again, just MHO.

Don
 
GGB:

I've bought a Weaver V9 about 10 years ago and it's been on my 338-06 the entire time with no issues. I would assume the V-10 should be of similar quality.

If you do decide to replace your Bushnell (and it has rainguard), I may be interested in buying it if you'd like to sell.

Ryan

P.S. A number of years ago, I decided to see if I could destroy a Bushnell banner 4X scope. I had a pile of 12 ga slugs and bought a new barrel with scope mount. After shooting the entire pile, the scope is still going strong (and presently resides on a .22 auto I have).
 
I can't aford the finest in optics for every gun I purchase but, it goes like this.....If I can't aford a Nikon Monarch, I drop down to the Bushnell 3200 and if that's too much the Weaver is the bargain of the bunch. I just bought a K-4 Friday. Dont let the elitests get to you....Some don't live in the real world anyway............Essex County
 
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