Temptation from Gemini Customs

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cluttonfred

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I have long drooled over Marc Morganti's Ruger SP101 work at Gemini Customs. If you haven't seen his work, visit his site, it's worth the time.

Now he is offering a nice tuning package for the S&W 642 and I am sorely tempted:

Pocket Protector Option
S&W .642 - 6 Port J Frame Package
Package Includes:
V-6 45 degree Hybra Port ™ Porting (™ Weigand Combat)
Complete Action Tuning
Crown Barrel
Chamfer Cylinder Throats
Eliminate Cylinder Endshake
Mill front sight to point of aim
Test Fire
$269.95

I don't want porting and I would like some of those nice white corian Badger grips (see the S&W 640 pics on the same page). I e-mailed Marc to ask about other options and he responded himself and quickly. Let's see...

New S&W 642...$439.95
PPP without porting...$169.95
Badger corian grips...$71.95
Shipping...$55.00
Total...$736.85

An expensive proposition, to be sure, but oh so sweet.
 
Gemini worked over my SP101, and it's awesome. If any snubbie is in even more need of a makeover than the SP101, it's the 642. Thanks for the post, that makes 642 in my future more tempting.
 
Marc changed my ho-hum 3" GP-100 to an amazing firearm. He will be getting another of my firearms in the future.
 
My 9mm SP-101 has sold a lot of folks on Marc. He'll be getting another gun from me soon.
 
Range versus Street

Porting may be very nice on the range, when you are holding the gun at arm's length and are wearing hearing protection. However, it can be quite a liability if you need to fire the gun from a compressed position in a fight or need to fire a round past a seated companion, such as a passenger in a vehicle you are driving. Ports vent hot gas, noise and unburned powder granules.
 
spwenger...do a search...all kinds of info that makes your "porting" comments spurious. I own a ported weapon...and carry it with flash retardant powder cartridges, e.g., 125 grain Corbon DPX +P. I have no unburned powder granules erupting from the top and it the cylinder loses just as much hot gas as the ports. Decibels remain the same in ported and unported pistols. Since the sound is "omni-directional" with a ported weapon, it just sounds (perception) louder. I could go on...but to what point? This information is already inside the forum's comments...or you could actually ask those of us who have and know about ported weapons. Oh...and please don't bother going down the, "What about firing from a retention position?" Believe me, I can do more damage with a Ruger at arms length than I can firing hot rounds at 25 feet...although pistol whipping is not considered a martial art form, the Ruger GP100 is lethal. I would not even waste a round if the BG got that close to me.

Oh...+1 on Gemini...Marc does great work...completely redid my GP100 and it is fabulous!

GP1003.jpg

GP1004.jpg
 
I don't mean to hijack this Gemini thread, because they do great work, but I must disagree with Dawg. I really don't care what other posters have said about porting, it has been my experience that when firing with the gun close to my body, which IS good technique when someone is close, (you can beat him if you want, I'd rather shoot him) I have gotten a dose of hot gas in my face and don't want it again. When shooting at night it does effect my night vision more with flames spouting out the top. And, I definitely think it's louder and much more disorienting to me shooting ported guns. Whether the decibel level is higher or not, my perception and disorientation is reality when shooting.

Gemini creates art, no question, and I would love to have them work on my SP101, just without the porting. To each his own though. It definitely reduces muzzle flip.
 
Well L-Frame...guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Our perceptions are obviously different...and I, for one, do not get disoriented. At night, the plume actually goes straight up over head out of my ported Ruger rather than right in front of me like my un-ported .357. No difference in flash...again...it is just your perception. Attempt firing a non-ported .357 then a ported one at night. There will be no differance...I know...been there...done it.
 
I really don't care what other posters have said about porting, it has been my experience that when firing with the gun close to my body, which IS good technique when someone is close...I have gotten a dose of hot gas in my face and don't want it again. When shooting at night it does effect my night vision more with flames spouting out the top.

Yeah, well you're wrong in your assumptions in regard to Marc's Hybra-Porting. It doesn't do any of those things. It does make felt recoil notably less and reduces muzzle flip substantially. I have it on three different SP101s.
 
Couldn't much of the hot gas/burning powder problem be controlled by using the ammo designed for very short barrels?
 
Different People...

...seem to learn different lessons from allegedly similar experiences.

I have coached students, using the assisted trigger drill, which places me alongside them, who have used a wide variety of firearms and ammunition. The noise level was noticeably louder (percieved while wearing hearing protection) with the one guy shooting a ported two-inch Rossi revolver.

As my former teaching partner used to say, "It's your gunfight."
 
But of course spwenger...I do not disagree with you on the loud noise perception whatsoever. I noted that the report became "Omni-directional" instead of "projected" down range and, subsequently, one does notice the seeming louder noise because one is actually inside the sound wave. My point is this: You will experience the exact same decibels (there is no increase whatsoever) and one will have the exact same hearing damage (for example) if you fired either weapon without muffs.

That is why I use muffs on the range. If my life is threatened and I have to fire a .357 mag in a real life situation...well, let’s just say that hearing loss is not even on my radar screen.

Look...a short 3 inch barrel .357 mag is pretty loud...I see no big hardship having it ported...yup, it is louder.

Bottom line...my muzzle flip is reduced by 70% and I can achieve Old Fluff's 5-5-5 rule with hot .357 mag rounds and only lose 100 fps in velocity. I can still get awesome penetration and consistent expansion and controlled/quick follow-up shots. Nice trade-off in my opinion.

Here is what the Master Gunsmith has to say about it:

"As you may know we are the originators of Hybra-Port and own the Trademark. We have been porting revolvers since 1990 with that porting system. The flash issue is an ammo thing. Think for a moment, a ball of flame is going to come out of the muzzle or the ports. In the dark your eyes are not sure where it came from just that there is a flash. I have done testing and found no real difference in low or no light flash. I will tell you the two problems with porting of any type.
1)Noise, ported guns are loud, period. If you port your gun is will be more uncomfortable to shoot without ear protection.
2) Escaping gasses at high pressure. You can not fire the gun anywhere close to your body. If you come in to contact with the high-pressure escaping gasses it will do damage.
I have Hybra-Ported in excess of 20,000 revolvers with few complaints about muzzle flash but quite a few complaints on the other two issues. Our porting will reduce muzzle flip up to 70% but you must be willing to suffer with the two drawbacks I have described.
The issue of porting a carry gun has always been a sticky topic; I can see both sides. More than one gunwriter has refused to write about our Hybra-Ported guns for carry. What I tell customers is this. If you can deal with the muzzle flip do not port your gun. If you just don't like or can't deal with muzzle flip, port it. I will build a gun either way.
I hope this clears up a little about the muzzle flash issue. I suggest if you don't have a ported gun get a friend that has one and do some testing, I believe you will find what I am saying to be true. As one of the other posters has said, find ammo that has reduced flash and I think the problem will be solved. Jeez, this is my longest post yet, LOL!"
God Bless
Jack Weigand


and....

"We have been Hybra-Porting revolvers since the late 80's. I have found the following to be true.

Loud! A good portion of the blast is generated above the gun making it seem sharper.

Velocity. I have done extensive testing and I see from 2% to 4% loss as normal. Excessive cylinder gaps can loose more velocity than porting.

Flash. I believe after testing, the non-ported snubbies have more flash. The ball of flames comes out directly in the line of sight on a non ported gun where the ported gun directs the flash aprox a foot above the barrel in a ploom.

Firing the gun close to your body. The vented gases will do damage if held too close.

Muzzle flip. Hybra-Port reduces muzzle flip up to 70%.

My suggestions are as follows. If you are recoil shy and muzzle flip bothers you, have your gun ported. If not porting is of no use."

God Bless
Jack Weigand
 
It's Nice to See...

Firing the gun close to your body. The vented gases will do damage if held too close.

Muzzle flip. Hybra-Port reduces muzzle flip up to 70%.

My suggestions are as follows. If you are recoil shy and muzzle flip bothers you, have your gun ported. If not porting is of no use."

God Bless
Jack Weigand
...that Jack Weigand agrees with me. The issues of recoil and muzzle flip, in my estimation, are more likely to be range issues than street issues and reductions in them are more likely to be perceived when firing from the more conventional extended-arm positions. However, as I said before, "It's your gunfight."

As to blast from the barrel-cylinder gap, this is one of the reasons that my S&W 640-1's are now loaded with +P .38 Special loads in place of the 110 gr. .357 Magnum loads I used to carry.
 
I don't really care for the porting. But does he take care of the barrel/cylinder gap, endshake and sloppy lockup? :(
 
So Dawg,

You're agreeing to disagree with me, but then you post Jack Weigand saying that porting is louder and hot gases can do damage. ????
 
Guys, this is not a thread about the pros and cons of porting...if you remember, I actually requested the price without porting, but please, take the acrimonious debate elsewhere.
 
You're absolutely right. In my first post in this thread I apologized for hijacking this thread, but didn't think it would actually be hijacked.

I do want to have Gemini do an action job on my SP. I've owned a GP100 in the past (sold it since, regret it) that had a Jack Weigand action job on it and it was amazing. The action would rival any S&W I've owned.
 
Gemini is not Jack Weigand. Marc Morganti (Gemini) simply bought the rights to the Hybra-Porting process from Jack as Weigand no longer does any gunsmithing and is only in the parts business.
 
Yes, I know. I had a Weigand GP100, and have shot a Gemini sp101 from a guy at the range, and they both had excellent triggers. I assumed that Weigand had helped them in the execution of the gunsmithing as well, based on that experience.
 
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