Tennessee Gun Laws to be Considered 3-19-08

[waynesan]

The following changes to Tennessee's Gun Laws are scheduled to be heard next week 3/19/08 in the Criminal and Practice and Procedure Sub Committee of the State House.

HB0702 Allows person who has permit to carry a handgun to carry gun in place where alcohol is served for consumption on premises if person is not consuming alcohol or is not otherwise prohibited by posting provisions.

HB3667 Allows any resident, who has a valid handgun carry permit, to possess his or her handgun while within the boundaries of any state park.

HB3014 Authorizes full-time faculty and staff at public schools, colleges, and universities in Tennessee to carry handguns if not otherwise prohibited by law.

I would urge any TN resident who wants to see these Bills adopted to call the members of the Committee and voice your support for the Bills.

http://www.legislature.state.tn.us/house/Committees/hsubmemb.htm#crim

Janis Sontany 615-741-6861
Eddie Bass 615-741-1864
Bob Briley 615-741-2184
Henry Fincher 615-741-1875
Judd Matheny 615-741-7448
Eric Watson 615-741-7799

If you live outside the (615) area code, you can dial 1-800-449-8366 and when prompted you can dial the last five digits of the Representative's phone number and be sent to the office you are calling.

 

[Jamie C.]

Also, anybody in the WSMV/WKRN viewing area... contact WSMV and give them hell about their coverage tonight concerning HB0702, and their report of the fact that the Metro Police chief and others have signed a letter claiming "Guns and alcohol don't mix".

Y'see, unlike the report WKRN aired yesterday evening on the subject, WSMV conveniently left out the fact that the bill wouldn't let a CCW carrier DRINK while in those establishments. ( WKRN even went to the trouble of not only explaining the situation, but also interviewing people and asking them what they thought. )

I've already sent an e-mail to WSMV's news department, expressing my displeasure at their entirely misleading coverage.

Anyway, the point of all of this is to get the maximum number of people to understand exactly what the bill does or does not do. If pressure is put on the news media to tell the truth - the whole truth - then maybe that'll put more pressure on the folks at capitol hill to do the right thing.

One way or the other, it can't hurt.



J.C.

 

[hso]

Eddie Bass 615-741-1005 doesn't seem to work.

 

[El Tejon]

Alcohol and guns don't mix? Hmmm, later tonight I will carry not one but two pistols, I will consume alcohol and nothing, not a blessed thing will happen because of me.

For many, many decades we have carried here without an such inane Carrie Nationesque "no guns in taverns" laws, no blood on the sidewalk, no shootings over billards or darts. Why politicians think y'all are crazed killers just one vodka tonic away from Murder I cannot understand.

 

[taliv]

i've got to disagree with you there, El T.

it's not fundamentally different than drinking and driving.

alcohol and guns are just a bad mix. (alcohol and most things are a bad mix)

 

[waynesan]

Eddie Bass's # has been corrected in the post above.

 

[El Tejon]

And the evidence of license/permit holders getting drunk and doing stupid things with guns is where now???

The moronic "no guns in bars" laws are nothing more than the projection of the moral weakness of the legislature.

 

[yhtomit]

El Tejon:

"Alcohol and guns don't mix? Hmmm, later tonight I will carry not one but two pistols, I will consume alcohol and nothing, not a blessed thing will happen because of me."

I "don't drink." (Scare quotes because I'm not a 100pct teetotaler, but close enough ... I'll have the occasional slowly sipped cider, or 1/8 of a small glass of wine, to see whether I've developed any taste for wine yet.)

But I thank you for pointing out the conformist / extremist / reflexive "zero tolerance!" line on drinking and guns. If people are drunk and violent (or even just drunk, stupid and prone to playing with guns all at the same time), I don't especially want them to have guns -- but the world is full mostly of cases which are not one of those scenarios. If someone with the land and time to do so wants to sit on his porch and plink at hornets' nests while sipping beer, well, I hope he has a lot of calomine lotion and aspirin. But it's not a per se moral offense! Likewise if someone is peaceably enjoying the company of his friends in a bar (not my thing, but Hey).

I won't go for moderation in all things, maybe, but on this issue that seems to be the right thing. It's only a problem if it's a problem.

timothy

 

[Jamie C.]

it's not fundamentally different than drinking and driving.

Except for the fact you can drink and drive, and be perfectly legal.... so long as you don't drink enough to be over a specified limit.

The new bill wouldn't allow a CCW holder to drink anything at all while in an establishment that sells alcohol by the drink, while carrying. Nothing. Not one drop. Absolutely f***ing zero.

Seeing a difference yet?


J.C.

 

[Standing Wolf]

HB3014 Authorizes full-time faculty and staff at public schools, colleges, and universities in Tennessee to carry handguns if not otherwise prohibited by law.

What if you can afford to go to school only half-time?

 

[Mousegun]

As long as we have "the Naifeh" our beloved Speaker of the House often known as the poster boy for terms in politics, we will probably not get
"guns in bars" passed.

It is really not a gun in bar legislation but a gun in restaurants that serve alcohol bill. The media makes it a guns in bars situation.

There are many states that recognize their permit holders as responsible citizens but Tennessee is not high on my list as being one of them.

They could have made it a 50% law for starters which would allow me to legally carry in places like Ruby Tuesday's and some of the nicer eateries in the Knoxville area but Naifeh has actually laughed at people that have, in the past, tried to convince him to let this legislation come to the floor. It constantly passes (all the other times it has been proposed) in the Senate but gets stopped in the house.

The dude is a liberal in Memphis that doesn't stand a chance of not being re-elected. Ouch for all responsible gun owners.

By the by --- I would rather be in a restaurant that serves with 100 licensed carry holders than on the road with just one driver that is just under the legal drinking limit.

 

[misANTHrope]

Predictably, the media is whipping up a frenzy about what they're calling the "Guns in Bars" bill. WRCB here in Chattanooga ran a story last night, and while they did make fleeting mention that it would remain illegal to consume while carrying, they interviewed multiple people- and of course, they were all folks talking about how scary of a thing this was. Absolutely no commentary from our side.

View the story here

I would also encourage anyone so inclined to comment on the story. So far, we're coming out in the majority, but there have been a few negative comments.

 

[El Tejon]

Just saw the video, wow, such stupidity on parade. Uphill fight for y'all.

Has anyone asked the opponents of the bill to cite any cases where legal license/permit holders caused problems in bars where it is legal to carry in bars? Heck, in Indiana we even drink while carrying in bars. I had 1.5 cold frosty beers with dinner last night and no bloodshed, not counting the raw fish, octopus and cooked eel that perished!

Is it really that we Yankees just assumed to be inherently superior people and thus to be more law-abiding than y'all? Is this what the motive of the opponents? A bunch of Yankee-lovers?

 

[hso]

My response to the Chattanooga station -

The solution to all this Baptist Preacher Propaganda is to look at the statistics for those states that do allow handgun carry permit holders to not only carry in establishments that serve alcohol but consume it within limits like drivers. States like Indiana where a permit holders may both enter and consume, responsibly, while carrying do NOT see permit holders acting like drunken cowboy actors. The fact of the matter is that anyone that takes the time, pays the course fees and gives the state the money to have their backgrounds probed more deeply than their proctolagist would isn't the person you need to keep out of Ruby Tuesday's. These folks are the example of responsible citizens while folks who are a danger to the public are going to ignore the law and you, hopefully, won't even know it.

 

[volfandan]

It's actually really simple......maybe I need to run for office

They need to call it the "Smoking & Gun Carry" legislation.

In the state of Tennessee, smoking in restaurants is illegal. You cannot even go to the bar in a restaurant and smoke.

HOWEVER:

If the establishment is an "21 and older ONLY" admitted.....you are allowed to smoke. Let's be logical. I'm not going to say that people don't get drunk at Ruby Tuesdays, the Copper Cellar, Outback.....etc. But, for the most part, these are primary restaurants that have a bar and serve alcohol.

21 and up establishments are generally true BARS where people go and get hammered....period.

So, if you can smoke, you CAN'T carry.

If you CAN'T smoke, you can carry.

Make sense?

 

[misANTHrope]

Seems like that restriction may have been discussed at one time or another... I'm not 100% sure though. What's kind of weird is that there are actually two different bills up for consideration in subcomittee Wednesday. The substantial difference between the two is that HB410 include the stipulation that any establishment who pulls more than 51% of heir income from alcohol is off-limits. But that bill has not yet passed the Senate, unlike the other one, whose number I forget.

Passing a bill with no restrictions is what I'd really like to see, but realistically I'm OK with the income restriction if that's what it takes to pass this.

 

[volfandan]

How far are we from being like KY as far as long gun carry in vehicle goes? It's my understanding that ANYONE above 18 can carry a loaded long gun in a vehicle....as long as it's in "plain sight". And, if a person has a handgun carry permit, then they can legally carry a loaded long gun in there vehicle even if it's NOT in plain sight.

I'm not wanting to start cruising the town with a bunch of AK's....but it'd be nice to legally have a truck gun for when I'm 4 wheeling or traveling out in the boon docks to go fishing.

 

[hso]

These may provide a starThese may provide a starting point for some of us to send emial/letters/leave messages for the folks on the CPP Subcommittee and the General Assembly.

Representative XXXXXX,

Please pass HB0702, HB3667, HB3014, HB3063 and HB3137, on to the General Assembly for voting. As a member of the Criminal and Practice and Procedure Sub Committee you serve all the people of Tennessee in your role as a committee member. All of Tennessee’s citizens should be represented in deciding these important questions and this can only be done by all of the duly elected representatives of the people of Tennessee.

Thank you.

YYYYYYY

Political Critter XXXXXXX,

As a voter in Tennessee I respectfully ask that you support passage of HB0702, HB3667, HB3014, HB3063 and HB3137.

Consider the statistics for those states that do allow handgun carry permit holders to not only carry in establishments that serve alcohol but allow them to consume it within the same limits as drivers. States like Indiana where a handgun carry permit holders may both enter and consume, responsibly, while carrying do NOT see permit holders acting like drunken cowboy actors. The reality is entirely different than the wild fantasy of TV and moves.

The fact of the matter is that any Tennessean that takes the time from their busy schedules to attend a day long class and then stand in line with the paperwork, pays the $100 in course fees and gives the state $115 to have their backgrounds probed more deeply than their proctologist would to get a handgun carry permit isn't the person you need to worry about in Ruby Tuesday's. These folks are the example of responsible citizens and exercise responsible behavior while folks who are a danger to the public are going to ignore whatever the law happens to be at the time.

Equating Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit holders to poachers is equally insulting to equating them to drunken cowboys shooting up the saloon. Tennesseans that have gone though the steps and expense of qualifying for a handgun carry permit simply are not the people that sneak onto state land to poach. They already have paid for the training out of their own pocket to understand that violating the law with their handgun can result in prosecution and jail, as well as permanent revocation of their permit, so why would any reasonable legislator assume they would risk everything breaking the laws against poaching?

While the role of school/college employees isn’t to act as campus security, forcing those employees who have taken the steps and gotten state approval for the Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit to leave their firearms at home renders them second class citizens in Tennessee. Because they work on campus they are not allowed to have their carry handgun with them, even secured in their vehicle. This denies them the ability to exercise the right they paid for while going to and from their jobs unlike every other citizen of the state of Tennessee. Yet, HCP holders have already proven themselves to be law abiding citizens with clean backgrounds just to get the permit from the state. Why would people we trust around our children who have gone to the additional trouble, expense and background checks for the HCP not be trusted to responsibly secure their weapons while at work?

Tennessee HCP holders should be able to secure a legally obtained firearm within their vehicle regardless of their employer's policy on firearms. The vehicle is the citizen's private property and not subject to control of the employer. In addition, this is the only way a TN HCP holder has to legally comply with an employer that prohibits firearms in their businesses and still exercise the right they paid the state for. On top of this, the presence or absence of any item or material in the private vehicle of a resident of the state of Tennessee should be of no interest to an employer any more than it is to a representative of the state of Tennessee, who must have probable cause to investigate the contents of the vehicle. It is understandable that an employer or any private property operator or owner, may choose to prohibit firearms within their business, but the contents of a private vehicle should not be subject to their control.

Information related to TN HCP holders should not be available to the public. TN HCP holders support the program within the state of Tennessee with the fees they pay for their initial HCP and fees for the renewal of the HCP. Any information containing addresses or names can be used to the detriment of the HCP holder should it be released. HCP holders take their personal privacy very seriously. Considering that a domestic abuse survivor may have acquired a HCP to help ensure their safety and may have effectively avoided contact with a former abuser release of their name or address may make their location easily available to the person they have every reason to fear.

Please support passage of HB0702, HB3667, HB3014, HB3063 and HB3137.

Thank you,

YYYYYYYYY

 

[Mainsail]

…it's not fundamentally different than drinking and driving.
alcohol and guns are just a bad mix. (alcohol and most things are a bad mix)

Yes, it is fundamentally different.

It is illegal to ride your bicycle while drunk too, but nothing forbids you from carrying your bicycle home if you were too drunk to ride it.

You can argue that, “alcohol and shooting don’t mix” and I’ll agree with you. Operating anything mechanical while under the influence of alcohol is probably a bad idea.

 

[hso]

Folks,

This isn't the Activism Discussion section of Activism so let's stay focused on the bills and how to get the Subcommittee to pass them through to the General Assembly so we can focus on getting them to a vote in the General Assembly (in spite of Naifeh).

Debates on whether having a drink while carrying or not should take place elsewhere in THR.

 

[buzz_knox]

hso, have you got an e-mail for the committee itself?

E-mails sent to the individual committee members.

 

[waynesan]

Just got this from NRA today. As you can see there are a few more bills being voted on 3/19/08. Get those calls made before Wednesday if you want your voices heard.
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3666

 

[hso]

I linked the webpage for each of the Subcommittee members to their names in waynesan's OP.

 

[hso]

Mr. Naifeh came to the SubCommittee to derail them from passing the bills on to the General Assembly.

My letter to them.

The members of the SubCommittee represent all the citizens of the state of Tennessee and not just their districts or their individual viewpoint. Issues like this that effect all the citizens of the state should be passed on to the General Assembly so that the will of all the citizens can be represented and not subject to the willful maneuvering of a few power brokers.

Mr. Naifeh used his position to deny the citizens of the state of Tennessee their right to representation.

Tennessee gun owners need to work to have Jimmy Naifeh removed so he can not continue to deny them representation in Nashville.

 

[waynesan]

I don't know if its a common rule in other states but in Tenn. the Speaker of the House has the right to sit in on any subcommittee and cast a vote on legislation. And that's exactly what Naifeh did to kill all these pro gun bills that were being considered. I think this is preposterous! The man has as much or more power than the Governor.
I just hope that before the next election, the gun owners in this state will awaken from their slumber and vote in Pro Gun candidates and stop voting for the handful of anti-gun roadblockers that manage to kill pro gun legislation in subcommittees before they can be voted on by the full House. Naifeh and his munchkins have got to go.