Texas Legal CC Question

[Mot45acp]

If you employer notifies you via employee handbook "no weapons allowed on company property" is it the same as a verbal warning? Meaning can you be charged with criminal trespass?

No 30.06 language or signage was/is used on property or in handbook.

ETA to save bandwith: I am aware that violating company policy will result in termination. Judged by 12 carried by 6 etc. etc. I am just wondering about the legal aspect of it.

Thanks in advance,

Mot

 

[calaverasslim]

carry

There is no law, that I am aware of anyway, that would protect you from termination. We do not have any law like Georgia or Florida that may force employers to allow you to have a firearm in your locked vehicle.

Your best bet is to leave it home. If you should decide to carry it with you, best keep your info to yourself.

 

[bdickens]

The requirements of the 30.06 notification only apply to members of the public entering the premises.

There is no specific requirement as to how an employer may give effective notice to an employee. A 3x5" index card on the bulletin board that says "employees may not bring weapons to work" is binding on you.

This should have been covered in your CHL class.

 

[filbince]

I remember there was something related to that passed before in Texas, the three of them keep them from penalizing you for keeping it in your car. Which any sort of notification from the employer on their weapon policy can keep you from carrying at work.

HB 922
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/HB00992I.htm
States that you have to inform your immediate supervisor in writing signed that you're going to keep it in your car, and also states the extent of when and where you can use it. This pertains to CHL holders only.

HB 220
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/HB00220I.htm
Again CHL holders only, nothing about notifying in writing, but shows they can't penalize you if the parking area is not secured with security posted.

HB 1037
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/HB01037I.htm
And the labor code for employee rights on storage in vehicle.

 

[Rokyudai]

Sorry if this is a bit cloudy:

The way I interpret this part of the law is that to be charged with Trespass by holder of a concealed handgun license (Class A mis), the site would have to be posted 30.06.

However, the scenario you pose is different where one accepts "on condition of employment" (employment by will/fire at will) any/all rules in said policy book., If you are given verbal or written notice from an employer in this manner and you violate it, it is likely going to result in termination only; unless you have done something else within the context of the offense in which the police had to be called.

Also, obviously if you returned to the site carrying or not after the initial notice, then you definitely can be charged with trespass regardless.

I'm not a lawyer or LEO and sorry for wasting time/bandwidth. It is a good question.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Unless it is listed as a prohibited place, the worst they can do is fire you. Keep in mind however, that your reason for termination will be known to others. For instance, at your next job.

Reason for leaving: Fired for violating company policy... brought concealed firearm to work


Leave the gun in the car. Carry pepper spray at work. If something bad does happen... sue the hell out of the company.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Reason for leaving: Fired for violating company policy... brought concealed firearm to work

I don't believe that is appropriate information to pass on and if known, is grounds for a potential lawsuit. We never passed on more information than dates of employment.

"Yes, Joe was employed from June 2001 until August 2007.

Leave the gun in the car. Carry pepper spray at work. If something bad does happen... sue the hell out of the company.

Suing does a whole lot of good if you are dead. Besides, what is the grounds for your suit? The company need only make 'reasonable' security accommodations which do NOT necessarily include letting you be armed.

 

[csmkersh]

I remember there was something related to that passed before in Texas, the three of them keep them from penalizing you for keeping it in your car. Which any sort of notification from the employer on their weapon policy can keep you from carrying at work.

HB 922
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs...l/HB00992I.htm
States that you have to inform your immediate supervisor in writing signed that you're going to keep it in your car, and also states the extent of when and where you can use it. This pertains to CHL holders only.

HB 220
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs...l/HB00220I.htm
Again CHL holders only, nothing about notifying in writing, but shows they can't penalize you if the parking area is not secured with security posted.

HB 1037
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs...l/HB01037I.htm
And the labor code for employee rights on storage in vehicle.

1. HB 922 out of committee buy die in House as did the companion senate bill.
2. HB 220 ditto.
3. died in committee.
   

Texas is an "at will" employeement state. No reason for termenation required. If employer wishes to prevent unemployment bennies, all they need say is employee violated written company policy and the lawyers can go suck a toad.
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[Mot45acp]

I am not worried about termination.

I am concerned with staying in the compliance of the law.

Due to this being written in the employee handbook can I be charged with criminal trespass? Is it the same as 30.06 or a verbal request to leave the premises?

 

[Prince Yamato]

If you employer notifies you via employee handbook "no weapons allowed on company property" is it the same as a verbal warning?

No. That's not to say that you won't be arrested. You just can't be charged with anything.

It's the same thing with, "no guns on school property" policies in Texas. You can legally run around the sidewalks on most Texas campuses with a CCW but most campuses have a policy that if you are found with a weapon, they can kick you off campus. The only way you can be charged is if you were on school premises, which in Texas law means school buildings proper. Again, you will probably be arrested, just not charged.

So, in short, no official sign, no official DPS policy (ie, "premises") no worry.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Due to this being written in the employee handbook can I be charged with criminal trespass? Is it the same as 30.06 or a verbal request to leave the premises?

That's not to say that you won't be arrested. You just can't be charged with anything.

Something to keep in mind here is that while the employee handbook by itself may involve issues that could result in termination from the job and don't substitute for 30.06, if your boss or the HR person goes over the manual with you and verbally tells you guns are not allowed, that is another matter entirely. Remember that 30.06 is just the formal written legal substitute for a verbal notice from the owner/representative of the establishment. So while the handbook may not count, being verbally informed does, even if it is in explaining to you what is in the handbook.

 

[G.A. Heath]

Unless they quote that line from the handbook it is not verbal notification. To receive written notification the language must match 30.06 exactly without having to meet size and/or contrast requirements. Written notification was actually implemented so that locations like churches could insert notification in their program they pass out.

 

[csmkersh]

You are mistaken, G.A. Heath. You need to talk to your local DA. Texas Government Code 411.203 allows an employer to ban licensed carry by his employees. No requirement for 30.06 language is stated. A policy statement, either in an employee handbook or a memo to each employee is sufficient notification. The employee may be terminated, but no charges of criminal trespass will be filed.

§ 411.203. RIGHTS OF EMPLOYERS.

This subchapter does not prevent or otherwise limit the right of a public or private employer to prohibit persons who are licensed under this subchapter from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of the business

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[bdickens]

What he said. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

It helps to read everything that's pertinent to the issue at hand instead of just what seems to support your wishes.

 

[arthurcw]

you will get better advice here: http://www.texaschlforum.com/

 

[ArcherandShooter]

A fix to this very flaw in the TX code is one of the suggestions I've made to my state rep and senator. I wrote them asking them to change the CHL laws to close the loophole allowing employers to forbid carrying by employees unless they also post their establishments with the 30.06 signage.

Why should companies be able to restrict employees, who they know and value, from carrying, when they will let any member of the public on premises with their concealed weapon?

As a bone to the business community, I proposed that those providing affirmative, armed security (NOT merely key-cards and receptionists) be exempt from this rule.

If any of you fellow Texans like the idea, write your folks in Austin and second the motion. NOW is the time to get things on the legislative agenda for the session that starts in January. You would not believe how fast that agenda fills up, and once it's full, you are out of luck for another two years.

 

[TacMedic4450]

Let me ask you another question closely related. Can a city (not a private employer) prohibit you from keeping a weapon in your vehicle? Austin prohibits their employees from keeping any weapons in their private vehicle. My understanding is that we have state preemption and municipalities cannot post 30.06 signs on any building or offices not prohibited by state law so how could they legally keep their employees from keeping guns in their vehicles?

 

[csmkersh]

There are two laws that prevent the city of Austin from regulating licensed carry/possession by non-employees.

First is the old law that's been in place since 1996, Local government Code 229.001 which states principalities may require all to bear arms but may not prohibit those licensed to carry under Gov Code 411 from carrying.

The second is TxPC 30.06, Criminal Trespass. That law states that no municipal or state agency may ban the carry of a concealed handgun by those licensed to do so.

Now, to employees. This is a completely different ball game. Government Code 411.203 gives employers, both private and public, the right to ban possession of a concealed handgun. Doesn't say firearms, it says handgun. So, if you're willing to be the test case, you could keep a rifle or shotgun in your vehicle. And since Texas is a preemptive state you should be covered.


Regarding http://www.texaschlforum.com/ my comment is this: While Charlie Cotton is a lawyer and is a great aid to TSRA, he doesn't always get it right.

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