Troutman
member
Rather be a slient professional.
Texas: Open vs concealed carry
- Thread starter Elza
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TacMedic explained the answer early on in this thread. It was a hold over from the late 1800's.
I heard someone explain a while back that state laws were sort of intentionally made onerous and confusing. Locally, the laws were prosecuted as the local politics saw fit. That started to change over the last 30 or 40 years until we ended up with people looking for changes at the state level. It took some time as the Democrats were the traditional party in power. They went liberal in the 60's and 70's and it took some time for things to change enough to allow better gun laws.
I heard someone explain a while back that state laws were sort of intentionally made onerous and confusing. Locally, the laws were prosecuted as the local politics saw fit. That started to change over the last 30 or 40 years until we ended up with people looking for changes at the state level. It took some time as the Democrats were the traditional party in power. They went liberal in the 60's and 70's and it took some time for things to change enough to allow better gun laws.
Elza
Member
That would depend upon the point of your question. If you are suggesting that I want to “show off” the answer is I don’t. If the suggestion is that I wish to ”advertise” then, yes, I would for several reasons.
1) Not that many people are fool enough to mess around with someone who is obviously armed.
2) Open is a lot faster and easier to draw especially if one has ‘love handles’ (which I do).
3) There are still an astounding number of people in Texas that do not realize that we can carry firearms.
4) The more people see them the more accustomed they become and less likely to freak out over them (I hope).
A very personal reason is that it is one HELL of lot easier and more comfortable.
Thanks for all of the input, folks. It is appreciated.
El Tejon: I suspect that your dissertation is right on point. It certainly makes perfect sense. Texas is not as ‘gun friendly’ as we get credit for.
I’ve already started work on joining the ‘open carry’ groups!Packing Heat in Plain View
Surprise. In Pennsylvania and 43 other states, any law-abiding resident 18 and older can carry a loaded handgun on his hip in plain view to shopping malls, restaurants and on strolls down the street. No permits required, no questions asked. You thought you needed a permit for that? Nope, only if you conceal the gun.
Complete article available at
http://www.washingtonceasefire.com/content/view/58/32/
http://local.lancasteronline.com/6/203265
Surprise. In Pennsylvania and 43 other states, any law-abiding resident 18 and older can carry a loaded handgun on his hip in plain view to shopping malls, restaurants and on strolls down the street. No permits required, no questions asked. You thought you needed a permit for that? Nope, only if you conceal the gun.
Complete article available at
http://www.washingtonceasefire.com/content/view/58/32/
http://local.lancasteronline.com/6/203265
El Tejon
Member
Elza, no, Texas is not as gun friendly as people believe, however perception is everything in politics. Use it to your advantage.
My Two Cents
... for what they are worth (which ain't much, admittedly).
Here in VA several cities-counties allow open carry.
I disagree that the answer is as simplistic as saying "gun control killed the kids" at VT. Cho killed the kids. While deranged, he wasn't an idiot (I'd venture no one admitted to that elite polytechnic institute is). If open carry were allowed on campus (or even if only concealed), he'd be aware of that and would most likely have been forced to choose another method to carry out his intentions, e.g., poisoning the most popular ingredient at the main cafeteria ... or a bomb or two.
Presumably Texas -- of all places, who covets their personal freedoms more? -- banned open carry for good reason. If there were unfettered access to weaponry, without licensing or any other restrictions -- as there presumably was until the latter part of the 1800s -- most would feel obligated to carry. Something like a (wildly more unstable) Cold War arms race.
... for what they are worth (which ain't much, admittedly).
Here in VA several cities-counties allow open carry.
I disagree that the answer is as simplistic as saying "gun control killed the kids" at VT. Cho killed the kids. While deranged, he wasn't an idiot (I'd venture no one admitted to that elite polytechnic institute is). If open carry were allowed on campus (or even if only concealed), he'd be aware of that and would most likely have been forced to choose another method to carry out his intentions, e.g., poisoning the most popular ingredient at the main cafeteria ... or a bomb or two.
Presumably Texas -- of all places, who covets their personal freedoms more? -- banned open carry for good reason. If there were unfettered access to weaponry, without licensing or any other restrictions -- as there presumably was until the latter part of the 1800s -- most would feel obligated to carry. Something like a (wildly more unstable) Cold War arms race.
El Tejon
Member
Fallen, in reverse order, Texas prohibited the carrying of pistols to disarm the freed slaves and to ensure their servility toward the end of Reconstruction. This law, like all gun laws, is about racism, not "arms races." (If government were so concerned about "arms races", why not disarm its police forces?)
The Texas statute was a Son of Ham law that was only enforced against blacks, but later included whites in a few decades. When the law against carrying pistols was starting to be used against whites in the South, a reform movement started. The racist nature of these statutes has been noted by Southern state supreme courts in years past. See, e.g., Watson v. Stone, 4 So. 2d 700, 703 (Fla. 1941) ("the statute [infringing upon the right to bear arms] was never intended to be applied to the white population and in practice has never been so applied").
Many places other than Texas covet their personal freedom more. However, the perception is quite different as Elza and her fellow Texans can use to their advantage.
Madmen go were there will not be resistance. That's why he chose the lecture hall and not the police station. Cho certainly did do the murders, however he had co-conspirators in the university administrators who required that their employees and students be helpless against him.
The Texas statute was a Son of Ham law that was only enforced against blacks, but later included whites in a few decades. When the law against carrying pistols was starting to be used against whites in the South, a reform movement started. The racist nature of these statutes has been noted by Southern state supreme courts in years past. See, e.g., Watson v. Stone, 4 So. 2d 700, 703 (Fla. 1941) ("the statute [infringing upon the right to bear arms] was never intended to be applied to the white population and in practice has never been so applied").
Many places other than Texas covet their personal freedom more. However, the perception is quite different as Elza and her fellow Texans can use to their advantage.
Madmen go were there will not be resistance. That's why he chose the lecture hall and not the police station. Cho certainly did do the murders, however he had co-conspirators in the university administrators who required that their employees and students be helpless against him.
Most Texas people are gun friendly. We are working on the laws. We do have decent self defense and defense of property laws. We also actually use our death penalty.
As far as perception, I guess that is like Northern liberals who think Texas is full of cattle ranches and cowboys with six guns. I wouldn't be surprised if a few thought we were still fighting Indians down here. I guess it would not be unusual for gunnies to have some perception issues as well.
I have also heard that many earlier gun control was race based. Another good reason to end it.
As far as perception, I guess that is like Northern liberals who think Texas is full of cattle ranches and cowboys with six guns. I wouldn't be surprised if a few thought we were still fighting Indians down here. I guess it would not be unusual for gunnies to have some perception issues as well.
I have also heard that many earlier gun control was race based. Another good reason to end it.
VARifleman
Member
Fallen...
Also, your talk about how there would be an arms race, a "cold war", is just silly. There are many states where it's legal and it just doesn't happen.
This is wrong. Open carry is not banned in any juristiction in all of VA. It used to be banned in some, but not anymore. Also, It's not allowed...it's not banned. We don't have laws allowing us to do things, we have laws banning us from doing things.
Also, your talk about how there would be an arms race, a "cold war", is just silly. There are many states where it's legal and it just doesn't happen.
Elza
Member
That sounds familiar. It was the same argument that the anti-gun forces used when Texas authorized concealed carry. Funny thing is it hasn't happened yet and that was 11 years ago.
I experienced a major brain fart/typo
Sorry. I meant to type that a number of cities-counties in VA allow *concealed*-carry (without a lot of hassle). Eek. Of course you don't have to have a license to open-carry in VA.
I do still believe that if suddenly all gun control laws were gone, eventually it would be like a little arms race in *certain areas of the country* and folks who wouldn't dream of having a gun would feel forced to do so. Noteworthy: A large percentage of the population in VA is completely ignorant of the fact that they are allowed to open carry (hence why folks in suburban areas of DC get real freaking nervous if they see folks walk into the coffee shop carrying and they aren't in a recognizable uniform ... and why said folks have their weapons confiscated by local cops who've been called who are *themselves*, amazingly, completely ignorant of the law.
Sorry. I meant to type that a number of cities-counties in VA allow *concealed*-carry (without a lot of hassle). Eek. Of course you don't have to have a license to open-carry in VA.
I do still believe that if suddenly all gun control laws were gone, eventually it would be like a little arms race in *certain areas of the country* and folks who wouldn't dream of having a gun would feel forced to do so. Noteworthy: A large percentage of the population in VA is completely ignorant of the fact that they are allowed to open carry (hence why folks in suburban areas of DC get real freaking nervous if they see folks walk into the coffee shop carrying and they aren't in a recognizable uniform ... and why said folks have their weapons confiscated by local cops who've been called who are *themselves*, amazingly, completely ignorant of the law.
...
But that's as to concealed carry and the widespread ignorance of citizens in the states that *do* have unfettered open carry that they *can*. Again, if all gun control were gone tomorrow and everyone were allowed to buy and open-carry, I think you'd see a demonstrable change.
As for the 43 states allow *unfettered* open carry, that's not exactly correct. I think a dozen do.
I don't know that anyone (reputable ... without a dog in the fight) has done a study on states where all the citizens are well aware of their rights to open carry, e.g., Alaska. Alaska has a very high violent crime rate. Why is that? Have studies been done? Does it matter whether you can open carry or not?
But that's as to concealed carry and the widespread ignorance of citizens in the states that *do* have unfettered open carry that they *can*. Again, if all gun control were gone tomorrow and everyone were allowed to buy and open-carry, I think you'd see a demonstrable change.
As for the 43 states allow *unfettered* open carry, that's not exactly correct. I think a dozen do.
I don't know that anyone (reputable ... without a dog in the fight) has done a study on states where all the citizens are well aware of their rights to open carry, e.g., Alaska. Alaska has a very high violent crime rate. Why is that? Have studies been done? Does it matter whether you can open carry or not?
El Tejon
Why then wouldn't they have simply prohibited freed slaves from carrying? The complete prohibition makes no sense at all if their goal was as you state.
Not sure which "government" you are referring to as to disarming "its" police forces. Give or take, there are a hundred thousand police officers in federal service who are authorized to carry arms and make arrests. There's a vast difference between being comfortable with authorizing a few hundred thousand people to walk around armed and a couple hundred million.
Why then wouldn't they have simply prohibited freed slaves from carrying? The complete prohibition makes no sense at all if their goal was as you state.
Not sure which "government" you are referring to as to disarming "its" police forces. Give or take, there are a hundred thousand police officers in federal service who are authorized to carry arms and make arrests. There's a vast difference between being comfortable with authorizing a few hundred thousand people to walk around armed and a couple hundred million.
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