Thank you Penn Bullets!

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azar

azar

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After taking note of my discussions with others about my barrel leading issues in my Springfield XD9, Robert Palermo (of Penn Bullets) sent me a PM. He told me he'd like to see if he could help me out. His idea of helping me out was to send me 2 different packs of 50 bullets and a bore treatment free of charge! :what:

I've never ordered from Penn Bullets before and was quite surprised with the offer of free bullets and a bore treatment to try. I received the bullets yesterday and I'm quite excited to see how they work. I'll try and update this thread with details when I get the chance to load and test them (which may be a month or two due to life getting in the way). :)

Thanks again Robert!
 
Another reason why he's my No.1 cast bullet guy.
Bob is a great guy to deal with and always helpful.
 
Extremely helpful for me also. He's offered me help when I haven't even asked.
Robert gets my nod.
 
Bob is truly a wealth of information on loading and bullets and he's willing to share this knowledge with others. He has been very helpful to me in selecting bullets and loads for the .454.
 
It took me quite by surprise that someone I'd never talked to wanted to send me free stuff. I don't complain about free stuff, especially when the free stuff may help get rid of an issue I'm having. :D

I found some all copper Chore Boy pads at a local market and used them to get rid of the last stubborn deposits of lead. I ran the bore lube/treatment down the barrel, so the gun is prepped and ready to go. I've also loaded up the 115g SWC in increments of 4.0g, 4.1g, 4.2g, 4.3g, and 4.4g of Hodgdon Universal at a COAL of 1.093".

I'll probably load up the 120g TC sometime this weekend. I have no idea when I'll actually get to test them though. Life is crazy right now.
 
I shot the 115g SWC bullets about a week and a half ago. I loaded up 4.0 to 4.4g of Hodgdon's Universal. I checked the barrel after firing each batch of 10 (4.4g only had 9 as I turned one bullet into a dummy round).

I still have pretty severe leading. I did have a "well duh" moment though. I load using the Lee Carbide 9mm die set with the FCD. I use the FCD as the final step on a light crimp to remove the case flair. Except that the FCD in 9mm does a post sizing on the bullet possibly sizing the bullet down to less than 0.356". Also, I checked to make sure I was using enough flair and I'm not sure that I was. I adjusted the die to flair just a tad (about 0.001") more because it's possible I was shaving the base of the bullet.

I now need to use the chore-boy on the barrel again and load up the 120g TC's. This time, a slightly bigger flair and no FCD. Just out of curiosity, if using calipers to measure the inside diameter of the flair of the case what would be the recommended amount of flair for a 0.356" bullet? 0.356"? 0.357"? 0.358"? It was somewhere between 0.355" and 0.356" and I bumped it up to about 0.357"...
 
Personally, I flare each case just enough so the bullet won't topple over after I set it on the case mouth. Not very scientific I know... but it works for me!

I've also read that some reloaders flare the case mouth just enough that, if they remove the case with the bullet sitting in the case mouth, they can turn the round upside down and the bullet won't fall out. "You pays yo money and you takes yo chances..."
 
Well, I tried eliminating the Lee carbide FCD from the equation and going to a regular taper crimp. I fired 40 of the 50 120g TCBB bullets (didn't have a lot of time) on Saturday morning and got just as bad of leading as ever. This time I had my "chore boy" wrapped brush, solvent, a copper jag, and some patches to do a cleaning in between each set of 10. The leading was most severe near the chamber (which to me would suggests the bullet wasn't obturating properly, but I'm no expert). However, the leading seemed to me to get worse the higher the powder charge. So maybe it wasn't due to the bullet failing to obturate. So, I'm at a loss as to what's what.

It's a shame. I've liked all the lead bullets I've tried but I'm too new to dealing with lead to know what it is I'm doing wrong. I'd love to use lead for economic reasons, but all the scrubbing gets old. Even with the "chore boy" trick. Without it, I'd have already given up... :banghead:
 
I thinks its time to get the barrel slugged and see where we are at with that. I have seen 9mm barrels as large as .358 if the barrel is running .357 or over none of the bullets being undersize will work.

The condition of the barrel is important as well. If the barrels broaching of the lands and grooves is not smooth and there are tool marks then that could be a contributing cause.

I truly suspect based on what you say that the barrel is just oversize as the leading got worse with increased powder charges indicating increased blowby and flame cutting.

the flare should be suffcient that you don't shave the sides of the bullet during the seating operation.
 
I too have eliminated leading in my handguns by using a thin coat of
Lee Liquid Alox on bullets from Missouri Bullets.
Take the whole box of 500 & put it in an empty 3# coffee can. Add about a tablespoon of LLA & agitate vigorously. Pour 'em out on a bench protected by waxed paper & let them dry for a couple of days.
DO NOT USE A LOT OF IT! Just a thin coat is all thats needed.
Works for me. :)

Roger
 
You use LLA undiluted? I was under the impression that you normally cut LLA with a bit of water (but I've never used it).
 
Robert,

I've already slugged the bore and it came out to 0.3555" at the largest spot. I've measured both the Missouri Bullets "SmallBall" and your 115g SWC and 120g TCBB and they were all pretty consistently 0.356". I adjusted the flair before loading the 120g TCBB's to be a bit more. I can check it again.
 
Azar, after conditioning your barrel, please post your results. I went through this process with my .45 two years ago-slugged the barrel and carefully chose slightly oversize bullets from different mfg, adjusted my charge weights based on differing bullet hardness and appropriate velocities, and experimented with different powders. Nothing helped until I used the alox liquid.
Strangely enough, none of my revolvers have ever had a problem with leading, except when using soft alloy 148 gr dewc. I can load hard-cast 158 gr lswc from 800fps-1400 fps without any leading at all.
 
TheotherMikeG,

I don't think I will take the time to lap my barrel. For me, I just don't think it's worth it. I have purchased a 4oz bottle of Lee Liquid Alox which I will try. I am considering purchasing a different powder to see if that helps. Beyond that? I don't know for sure. I have considered trying a slightly larger bullet (0.357") just in case my measurements were wrong on my barrel being 0.3555".

But honestly, as much as I want to save money using lead bullets and as much as I've like the quality of both Penn Bullets and Missouri Bullet Co. bullets I think I'll switch to plated if the Lee Liquid Alox and/or the new powder doesn't do it. Hopefully the LLA will be the fix.
 
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