the .308 as a hunting rifle

[tasunkawitko]

since i have a .308-and hunt with it, i would like to offer some observations and advice.

i believe that the .308 is the most versatile rifle there is; followed very closely by the .30-06. mine is a herter's mj9 (yugoslavian mauser manufactured by zastava in the mid-sixties) topped with a tasco (phillipines, NOT china) 3-9x44mm scope. it is a good all-around combo for anything i am likely to hunt in montana, from proghorn antelope , to mule deer , to whitetail deer to elk . the first thing i will say is practice practice practice!

regarding "point blank range," i would suggest a 250-yard zero, which will put you in an 8-inch kill zone out to 300 yards. a 200-yard zero is fine, but a 250-yard zero will compensate for any error in estimating range. i STRONGLY recommend going to www.huntingnut.com and downloading the free POINT BLANK program. play around with it a little and learn a few things about ballisitics. not only is it fun, but it will prepare you for the field, helping you to kow exactly what your rifle can do. before i got this program, i had visions of popping mulies at 600 yards with my .308.....this program woke me up, and made me a little more aware of what a rifle can do, and do WELL, as long as you know its limits.

with a .308, i would say that 165 grain is optimum up to mule deer. 150's are more than adequate, but it doesn't hurt to adjust the percentages in your favor.

for elk and larger, you definitely want to at least look into using 180-grain. 165's would probably be fine for a broadside kill-shot, but the 180's would penetrate much better and pack a little more punch, which is a plus when going after big animals which can run fast and disappear into thin air after they are wounded, but not killed outright.

regarding ammunition, "rolling your own" is probably the best option. you can tailor the bullet, load and other factors to your rifle, and achieve some very surprising accuracy. for 20$, you can buy a lee loader in .308 and see for yourself. along with the lee loader, i would recommend forking out an extra 13$ for the two-piece case trimmer and lock stud combination made by lee. this is really all you need to start loading very consistant ammunition that will be much better than factory. if that milsurplus ammo you bought for practice has a standard "boxer" primer, SAVE THAT BRASS and reload! you will save money and have a great time, and have great ammunition. if it is berdan-primed, then take it to the recycler and invest a little $dinero$ in some virgin winchester, federal or remington brass.

if you choose not to reload, any factory ammunition will be adequate, especially if you have a newer, quality rifle. remington , winchester and federal are proven names with good stuff. the pointed soft points (spitzers) are the best all-around choice for any game.

bullet selection. the top two that i would suggest for game up to and including mule deer are hornady interlocks and sierra gamekings , both in the boat-tail variety. this is not the most popular choice, but i believe that the boat tail gives you a distinct advantage at ranges past 200 yards. even if you don't plan to shoot past 200 yards, it is not always easy to judge distances, and the boat tail might make up for the error. one guy, whom i trust, said that he had some dramatic failures with the interlock system, but i believe that these were due to the extreme velocities that he was pushing in his rifle, and the older-style interlocks were simply not designed for it. premium bullets ( nosler partitions , trophy bonded bear claws , barnes x bullets )are a good idea on black bear as well as elk-sized game and larger, but not always necessary. once again, it is a good idea to adjust the percentages in your favor, and a premium bullet will do this for large or dangerous game.

ballistic tips by nosler and SST bullets by hornady are great for antelope and deer, but i personally do not trust them on elk-and larger-sized game. this does not mean that they don't work, it simply means that i don't know anything about their performance on large game. one thing is for sure, those b-tips with boattails will fly as fast and far and flat as the .308 will push them. for mule deer, this could give you the edge. for any b-tip style bullet i would suggest at least 165-grain and NOT 150's. a 150-grain b-tip MIGHT work fine, but under some conditions i believe that they are closer to varmint bullets, and when making meat it is best not to take the chance.

in case yuo are wondering about one bullet that would serve as an all-around bullet to cover any situation, there is none, but the closest thing to it for the .308 would probably be the 165-grain partition. you can load the nosler partition, or winchester makes this in factory ammo in their " supreme " line.

any questions, just ask; lots of people here willing to help. most of them know more than me, but these have been my observations. the last thing i will say is PRACTICE, PRACTICE PRACTICE!!!

 

[Dave R]

I thought the 7mm/08 was the most versatile cartridge? Or was the the .270? Or the .338/08?

J/K. As .308 shooter, I applaud your excellent essay.

 

[Poodleshooter]

Don't forget the lowly 110 and 125gr softpoint loads. I took a turkey last year with a low neck shot using a 125gr handload running around 3000fps. The .308 is very versatile,as are most cartridges in it's power range.

 

[BigG]

Nice persuasive essay on the .308, tasunkawitko!

 

[Johnny Guest]

Good exposition there, tasunkawitko - - -

- - - But I would question how the .308 could be considered more versatile than the .30-'06. FWIW, you can walk into a large sporting goods store and purchase 220 RNSP off the shelf. Also, while there isn't a smidgen of difference in the respective 150 gr. factory loads, in the heavier loads, the '06 does have a bit of extra velocity.

Also, you state,

for elk and larger, you definitely want to at least look into using 180-grain. 165's would probably be fine for a broadside kill-shot, but the 180's would penetrate much better and pack a little more punch, which is a plus when going after big animals which can run fast and disappear into thin air after they are wounded, but not killed outright.

Several years back, Elder Son and I were working up loads for elk hunting for his .300 WinMag and got on the help line with the guys at Sierra. They were very helpful with data on their 180 gr. Gamekings for the .300. I mentioned I'd been using the 165 GKs for many years in my '06, but would probably load some of the 180s for elk. The techie on the line got real serious - - - said he and his buddies were very big on elk hunting and strongly suggested that I stay with the 165 GK in '06. Reasons: You can push the 180 plenty fast in the WinMag for both flat trajectory AND good bullet performance. They felt that in the '06, I would run out of steam around 200 yards and end up with a lot of penetration but little expansion. Their strong counsel was to stick with the 165 GK - - Plenty strong enough for through-and-through on a large elk but enough lighter to push fast for good trajectory.

I just took their advice - -I had the 165s on hand anyhow - - And never tried the 180 in my gun (on game.) Yes, I realize that for generations, there was no step between the 150 and the 180 hunting loads. However, for most of that time, 'scope sights in the mountains were fairly rare, and, truthfully, 200+ yard shots which connected were pretty scarce, as well.

There's a trade off as well: If you run a 165 and a 180 at the same velocity, in the same rifle, the 165 has less felt recoil. And, if sheer flat trajectory is important, you can load the 165 a bit faster than the 180.

Most of the above probably makes small difference, but, as you put it, " . . .
it is a good idea to adjust the percentages in your favor. . . ." All of which being said, age and cardiac problems indicate I've probably had my last elk hunt. But, for the same reasons, if I DO essay another hunt in the mountains, it'll probably be with my .308 Savage Scout. Much as I like the ole aught-six, the Savage is a couple of pounds lighter.

No big argument - - - Just for discussion's sake.

Best,
Johnny

 

[tasunkawitko]

hi johnny - good reply! it covers exactly the things that i debated with myself as i wrote this "essay."

i typed out a nice reply on the points you brought up, but managed to lose it somehow!:banghead: i'll give you the readers' digest version~

on the .308/.30-06 thing, there are about a dozen "little" things which go back and forth and even out until the two rifles are more or less equal in my opinion. some of these factors are velocity, recoil, chambering time, "inherent" accuracy, etc., but i finally settled on the .308 because of the "cheap practice ammo" factor, which cannot be denied. you can buy hundreds of rounds of .308 which are reasonably accurate and allow a shooter to practice and practice until he is not only a good shot, but a good shooter!

as for the 165/180 issue, i would have to say that i instinctively agree with you on this one, and wrote the 180-grain factor because of everything i have been reading and hearing about it being the "minimum" for elk with a .308. personaly, i would NOT feel undergunned at all with a 165-grain pill, especially considering that i pick my shots carefully and choose broadside or slightly quartering shots. these kinds of shots would not need the deeper penetration which is provided by the 180-grain pill. another factor in this decision was that i have never hunted elk, so for this part i had to rely on the advice of others, which could have led to a little bit of flawed information. while i think 180's would of course work, i personally would prefer 165 and intend to use them if i do go elk hunting this year.

(edited for grammar)

 

[Johnny Guest]

Hey, I unnerstand!

And as I said, no argument between us, simply discussion.

If the unthinkable happened (fire/flood/tornado??) and I lost all my .30 rifles and had to start over, it'd undoubtedly be with a .308. I made a conscious choice to go with a .30'06 a few decades ago due largely to availability of milsurp ammo, brass, etc.

I bought a box of 220 gr. '06 ammo just for fun, a while back, but have never hunted with it. I just thought it'd make a nifty "other end of the shelf" from my box of the little 55 gr (?) Accelerator loads. Only bear I ever killed was with a 165 Sierra BTHP - - A large dark brown black bear. One shot, quartering back from shoulder.

And, lest I sail under false colors, I hasten to admit: two Elk hunts in Colorado - - Zero shots at elk. But I didn't shoot my elk with a .338 - - My Ruger '06 was the backup rifle with which I didn't shoot elk.

Let's face it - - An elk, while far larger than white tail or Mule deer, is about the size of a horse, more or less. Is there any horse, even the big draft animals, you'd feel you couldn't put down with any of the loads we've mentioned? (Oh, yeah, excluding the Accelerators.)

Best,
Johnny

 

[C.R.Sam]

Great thread.
Great info, I agree with darn near all of it.

However...
I think the quality of the hunter far exceeds the importance of the weapon.

Sam.