natedog
Member
Just a hypothetical situation...Do you think that, say, 10 well-trained men with modern rifles (M-14, AK, FAL, etc) could have made a difference at the Alamo?
The Alamo
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dukeofurl
Member
Yep. An AR15 is accurate to 600 yards. That would have made a difference even if they only shot the important looking ones on horses.
Jim March
Member
Yup. Use some 150rd Beta-C double-drum mags...
Better: Barrett 50BMG with lotsa 10rd mags, a BIG scope and the skill to use it. Translated from Spanish: waitasec...we're a freakin' mile away, what the heck just happened to Jose? And where's the OTHER half of him...and his horse's head?
Better: Barrett 50BMG with lotsa 10rd mags, a BIG scope and the skill to use it. Translated from Spanish: waitasec...we're a freakin' mile away, what the heck just happened to Jose? And where's the OTHER half of him...and his horse's head?
PATH
Member
Maybe. I would have sotod off and pounded them with artillery! Night assault would have been employed.
Lone_Gunman
Member
I was watching a show on the History Channel a while back where someone claimed that the defenders of the Alamo were not in as bad of a strategic situtation as is usually thought.
The point was that although they were very outnumbered, they were heavily fortified inside the Alamo.
I don't know much about defending forts, but it still looks like pretty long odds of surviving to me.
The point was that although they were very outnumbered, they were heavily fortified inside the Alamo.
I don't know much about defending forts, but it still looks like pretty long odds of surviving to me.
SodaPop
member
If C.R. Sam hadn't been out of town things would have been different.
tetleyb
Member
A couple of Claymore's and some WP sure would have made a difference.
Crom
Member
"There's a good SF novel "Remember the Alamo" that covers this. It's worth a read."
Trebor,
I remember skimming a novel (can't remember the title though) in a bookstore 20 or so years ago about 40 or 50 mercenaries armed with modern day weaponry which were sent back in time to help the defenders of the Alamo.
I always regretted not buying that book and reading it in it's entirety.
Could this be the same book you are referring to?
Trebor,
I remember skimming a novel (can't remember the title though) in a bookstore 20 or so years ago about 40 or 50 mercenaries armed with modern day weaponry which were sent back in time to help the defenders of the Alamo.
I always regretted not buying that book and reading it in it's entirety.
Could this be the same book you are referring to?
Mr. Mysterious
Member
I think that three or 4 guys would have been able to defend it it given 3 Mk19s and/or 3 M240s.
If ammo was not figured in those three guys would have been able to defend against 10,000 guys on foot with muzzle loaders.
The Mk19 has an effective range of 1600m with each grenade giving a 5m kill radius and a 15m casualty producing radius.
Heck, I bet you give 4 good shoots an M4/M16 and plenty of ammo they could defend it pretty darn good.
Or you could have one guy and a radio defend it...that is if he had an AC130 orbiting overhead
If ammo was not figured in those three guys would have been able to defend against 10,000 guys on foot with muzzle loaders.
The Mk19 has an effective range of 1600m with each grenade giving a 5m kill radius and a 15m casualty producing radius.
Heck, I bet you give 4 good shoots an M4/M16 and plenty of ammo they could defend it pretty darn good.
Or you could have one guy and a radio defend it...that is if he had an AC130 orbiting overhead
larry_minn
Member
I have often wondered that on many situations. I do figure a couple (8) GE mini guns and a couple M-249 SAW with couple tons ammo plus various items/trained folks to operate would changed history.
Course a pair of attack choppers fully loaded with base to resupply would have made short work as well.
For limited equip a good sniper group. Folks who can hit a man at @900yds. Say a dozen of them to pick off leaders.
Course a pair of attack choppers fully loaded with base to resupply would have made short work as well.
For limited equip a good sniper group. Folks who can hit a man at @900yds. Say a dozen of them to pick off leaders.
If 100 well-trained rangers and deltas can hold of 50,000 or however many Somalis then yes I think 10 well trained guys with modern weapons would definitely add significantly to the defense. Who knows if they would have turned the battle but they would have caused a much longer standoff for sure. Many people don't realize how large the Alamo was. If you go there and look at the little models of it with the miniatures that depicts the battle then you really see how inadequate the US force was there.
brad cook
brad cook
brookstexas
member
How about-
"I remember skimming a novel (can't remember the title though) in a bookstore 20 or so years ago about 40 or 50 mercenaries armed with modern day weaponry which were sent back in time to help the defenders of the Alamo".
Crom,
Any chance we can get 40-50 people of the caliber of the Alamo defenders sent to the present day?
"I remember skimming a novel (can't remember the title though) in a bookstore 20 or so years ago about 40 or 50 mercenaries armed with modern day weaponry which were sent back in time to help the defenders of the Alamo".
Crom,
Any chance we can get 40-50 people of the caliber of the Alamo defenders sent to the present day?
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10 well trained marksmen with 7.62 mm Nato rifles? The superior ballistics will be enjoyed only for a short while. When Santa Ana figures out that it's dangerous to expose himself, he'll settle for a siege and start digging trenches (ala Vauban) that will give his men safe passage towards the Alamo.
That's exactly what happened when the long range rifles of Texians held Santa Ana at bay for several days. Santa Ana decides upon a siege. This minimizes exposure at long range. Trench lines are moved up until its close enough such that the fortress can be stormed with minimal exposure to the defender's fire.
So, then the issue turns to short range fire (75 yards to shotgun distance). The 7.62 mm is a semi-auto firearm. Never mind the full auto capability. It's a pogo-stick that kills a few peepul before it starts taking out the pigeons & seagulls. An inner redoubt must be built for a last stand. It would be good if it was overlooked by a tower (from where the riflemen could shoot down the cannoneers). This would make the storming very costly in terms of personnel. Not that Santa Ana really cared (some townfolk reported that Santa Ana's casualties were in the high hundreds if not low thousand). Ultimately though, the Mexicans would have won. If they had to dig another trench or two or even burrow underneath and plant a mine and blow up every single defender (mines were not uncommon in siege warfare), they would have done so.
That's exactly what happened when the long range rifles of Texians held Santa Ana at bay for several days. Santa Ana decides upon a siege. This minimizes exposure at long range. Trench lines are moved up until its close enough such that the fortress can be stormed with minimal exposure to the defender's fire.
So, then the issue turns to short range fire (75 yards to shotgun distance). The 7.62 mm is a semi-auto firearm. Never mind the full auto capability. It's a pogo-stick that kills a few peepul before it starts taking out the pigeons & seagulls. An inner redoubt must be built for a last stand. It would be good if it was overlooked by a tower (from where the riflemen could shoot down the cannoneers). This would make the storming very costly in terms of personnel. Not that Santa Ana really cared (some townfolk reported that Santa Ana's casualties were in the high hundreds if not low thousand). Ultimately though, the Mexicans would have won. If they had to dig another trench or two or even burrow underneath and plant a mine and blow up every single defender (mines were not uncommon in siege warfare), they would have done so.
Yep, that sounds like the book. It was actually a pretty well put together adventure novel/time travel novel.
You can probably find it used through Amazon or one of the Amazon used book sellers. I can't remember the author, but it shouldn't be hard to find. It's worth a read.
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