The AR can wait: CZ, Sako, Kimber...

[The_Next_Generation]

the count: Because in my recent handling of several R700s alongside the other options on my list, there was a clear (and highly unfortunate, Remington was once a legendary manufacturer) shortcoming in quality on behalf of Remington.

Cee Zee: I understand that Savage rifles are very accurate, I do not doubt that for a second. However, the 14/114 rifle while accurate and of good quality, does not have the same appeal to me that the Kimber or CZ rifles have. To me, Savages are extremely utilitarian. They get the job done very well, but when it comes down to how they feel in your hands and against your shoulder, the other rifles surge ahead. Also, the MSRP of the 14/114 rifle is $995.

I'm looking for more than just accuracy.

 

[Cee Zee]

Well I'm trying to tell you that a top quality Savage has those things. And they generally do it for less money than other companies. I've handled Sako's and Tikkas and a ton of Winchesters and I've handled a lot of newer Savages. I believe you are judging Savage by facts that were true a decade ago but a lot has changed at Savage in that time period.

The 12 LRPV I own has one of the best stocks available, it has a 3 action screw design giving it far more strength and rigidity and it has an oversize bolt and a push feed design that works superbly. If you haven't seen those Savages you're missing out IMO. I have an older Savage and I would agree that it does seem utilitarian compared to other rifles. But that rifle is 20 years old. The new Savages are a far different creation.

Good luck finding what you're looking for. I'd still suggest that you at least look at a top notch Savage. I think you'll be surprised at the quality. It certainly isn't half the quality of a Winchester. That thinking is two decades out of date. I know you didn't say that. I'm just making the point.

 

[MCMXI]

Look you said Winchesters were double the quality of Savages.

I was comparing my Savage Weather Warrior to my Winchester Extreme Weather and clearly wasn't making a statement about all Savages compared to all Winchesters. If you put a Kimber Montana, a Winchester Extreme Weather and a Savage Weather Warrior on a table and ask 100 people to choose their favorite based on fit, finish, feel, overall appearance and overall quality I doubt you'll have many that choose the Savage.

Savage rifles have some very desirable features but they are not refined by any stretch of the imagination. For some this isn't important, for others it is.

 

[the count]

the count: Because in my recent handling of several R700s alongside the other options on my list, there was a clear (and highly unfortunate, Remington was once a legendary manufacturer) shortcoming in quality on behalf of Remington.

I am not a Remington fan boy...just stating the facts, and my 700 Tactical with my best hand loads, shooting off the lands, and other than a Timney trigger factory configuration, consistently achieves 1/2 MOA at 100 yards with the best 3 shot groups being around .35". Something to think about.

You say "I'm looking for more than just accuracy." Which would be what? Less accuracy? That statement somehow does not compute.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

the count: What I mean is that there are plenty of accurate rifles on the market today. The R700, Tikka T3, Savage 12xxx, blah blah blah. However, there are only a handful of factory rifles that offer the old-world quality, durability, and charm that I am looking for.

There is just something about a well-built, well-finished gun that feels and looks fantastic. Sure, there are plenty of guns our there that shoot great, but I want a gun with some character and uniqueness. This is what I mean about wanting more than accuracy.

Does anybody else agree with me? Many of today's "tack-drivers" are downright bland IMHO...

Thanks again everybody for the input, I really enjoy the different viewpoints!
- TNG

 

[MCMXI]

There is just something about a well-built, well-finished gun that feels and looks fantastic. Sure, there are plenty of guns our there that shoot great, but I want a gun with some character and uniqueness. This is what I mean about wanting more than accuracy.

That's why I rate the Kimber Montana so highly. It's simply built right with clean lines, superb fit/finish, an excellent trigger and safety, a really nice feeling stock and no more steel than is needed. On top of all that it's a great shooting rifle. Shooting sub moa groups with heavy rifles and powerful optics isn't all that hard to do. Shooting sub moa groups with rifles that weigh 6lb and low power optics is considerably more difficult, particularly when the rifle is chambered for cartridges that use high mass, high energy bullets.

 

[Halal Pork]

the count: What I mean is that there are plenty of accurate rifles on the market today. The R700, Tikka T3, Savage 12xxx, blah blah blah. However, there are only a handful of factory rifles that offer the old-world quality, durability, and charm that I am looking for.

There is just something about a well-built, well-finished gun that feels and looks fantastic. Sure, there are plenty of guns our there that shoot great, but I want a gun with some character and uniqueness. This is what I mean about wanting more than accuracy.

Does anybody else agree with me? Many of today's "tack-drivers" are downright bland IMHO...

Thanks again everybody for the input, I really enjoy the different viewpoints!
- TNG

I'm with you. I have an idea of what a classic rifle is (for me) and that's what I like. I'm not going to be invited to Camp Perry or the next Olympics for my shooting prowess. I like "old man" rifles and optics. If I ever start consistently out-shooting a favorite rifle, I'll consider getting it re-barreled, but I'm unlikely to change completely my preferences in style.