The battle axe

[Cosmoline]

I've been clearing out a bunch of timber for my future homestead up here in AK, and one of my best tools is a felling axe from these guys:

http://www.gransfors.com/

The felling axe is simply awesome, and will go through a birch nearly as fast as my chainsaw. I'm used to S-Mart axes and the ones you get from True-Value, but this one is a whole different order of being. It got me wondering how practical one of these:

http://www.gransfors.com/htm_eng/index.html

would be for close quarters combat. Thoughts?

 

[MolonLabe416]

Gransfor make an outstanding product. Should work as well for defense as felling timber.

Who offers a class in defensive axe?

 

[Elmer Snerd]

Who offers a class in defensive axe?

Your local SCA chapter may be able to provide some pointers.

A few linky bits:

http://www.rmsg.us/fire/blades.htm#Hatchet/Axe

If you can log on with these guys:
http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/secure/anglo_SecureLogon.htm

http://uk.geocities.com/the_isles/flamewar/pollaxe.htm

This 1467 book has a section on fighting with poleaxes:
http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/thalhoffer/contents.htm

The book is available here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1853674184/002-4693750-3878403?

 

[AJ Dual]

I remember from watching Conquest that the axe in battle provided more force per blow than any other hand held weapon, and as long as the attack was frenzied and committed, it was very, very, difficult to defend against.

And that was against a presumably experienced guy with a sword and a shield, imagine what it would be like against some garden variety criminal thug!

 

[Cosmoline]

And I just discovered

that the massive double-headed Swede can be THROWN with accuracy

 

[cbjessee@NH]

I have a Small Splitting Ax from Gransfors - it is a work of art.

For some good battle ax and tomahawk stuff, try http://www.americantomahawk.com/index.htm and www.coldsteel.com.

BRET

 

[Jim March]

And here I thought this would be a thread on somebody's mother-in-law.

 

[VaughnT]

One of the biggest problems faced will be recovering from a missed swing. With the weight of a felling axe, one bit or two, there's a lot of momentum to stop. Most fighting axes were relatively light, if memory serves, though that had little impact on their devastating wound capacity.

Gransfor is the best axe on the market today. Notice how they do things the old-fashioned way....and they aren't cheap. I can't wait to get one for myself, but I just can't decide on which model. I don't have any need for one, but they are just that cool.

 

[DaveH2]

There is an old SoF issue about the secrets of battle axe fighting utilizing a Kriby axe. Interesting 2 pages showing 5 techniques, however, more interesting is the person demonstrating the technique:

Jeff Cooper.

And he has a 1911 on his belt!

 

[Grump]

The SOF article is from the '70s, and was my beginning of knowing Jeff Cooper's writings by his name. Dad says Cooper was one of the range officers at a Bullseye match in Pasadena I accompanied him to in fall of 1965, but I have only a vague memory of a LOTTA big guys there.

Anyway, the pointy end of the battleaxe Cooper demonstrated allowed its use in thrusts and parry moves, just like a bayonet on a rifle. Momentum is both your friend and your enemy with such weapons.

 

[scotjute]

Generally speaking ...

Wouldn't choose an axe for most "duels" due to the slow recovery time, in no armor or lightly armored contests.
Now if both contestants were plate armoured, then the axe would be the weapon of choice, as your armor is your defense.

In "battle" situations, choice of the axe is a different story. Note the deadly effectiveness at the Battle of Hastings of the Anglo-Saxon axemen on foot against the mounted Normans and dismounted Normans.
Single blows were lobbing off horse heads, arms, legs, etc. When there's little room to manouver and escape the blows, it makes an excellent weapon of choice. After the battle, when the Anglo-Saxons retreated thru the woods and escaped the archers, they turned and waited for the pursuing Normans. So many mounted Normans were killed that William actually had to sound a retreat.

Of course there's all kinds of opinions, and differnt axes which can change the above. Of course, I have no training in the intricacies of axe fighting, whereas the sword is much more familiar.

 

[M67]

As a Norwegian I hate to admit it, but sometimes good things come out of Sweden.

I have one of those myself, and me likes it.

Now, axe vs. sword. Back in the good old days, we had strict weapons control in Norway. All households were required by law to have weapons of specified types and quality, in order to field one or more fully armed and equipped men, according to the size and economy of the household. Around a thousand years ago, fully armed would include a bow with a specified number of arrows, a spear, a shield etc. And a sword or axe, according to the personal taste of each man. I have a feeling that a man with a sword would not make fun of an axe-man's choice of weapon, at least not more than once...

Cosmoline, I think that axe in your link is a carpenter's axe, not a battle axe. But what's in a name anyway? Assault axe, homeland security axe - there is no end to the possibilities.

 

[El Tejon]

Pluses and minuses to all weapons. Depends on the skill of the operator. Don't you hate that--ah, man, I HAVE to practice and just not buy something!

My style of boxing does not teach it, however I have seen Southern division boxers (e.g., I believe, Choy Li Fut) demonstate the axe (two hand and smaller ones). It looked like something I would not want to step in front of.

 

[longeyes]

Get a copy of the axe program on Conquest (with Peter Woodward), History Channel. Great show. Axe + berserker = pretty damn scary weapon. I've considered throwing one in the back seat for general emergencies.

 

[ShaiVong]

When it comes down to completely unarmored combat, then naturally the fastest weapon would be superior. I.E. Rapier, Epee etc.

Add any kind of armor (even quilted vs rapier / epee) and an axe would be very hard to beat. I've got a two handed broadsword that is pretty hefty, but the point (pun?) is not to be constantly reversing your stroke, like a baseball bat swing, but to keep the weapon in motion and use its considerable momentum to your advantage.

after plate armor came into serious use, the only weapon to have would be an axe, or mace.

We may have guns and grenades and smart bombs and such now, but that doesnt make a sharp axe blow any less devistating. Just look at how many armys still use bayonets. Once the fighting gets close and personal, ill take an axe or sword over a rifle any day.

I wonder what a clean stroke from a keen axe, or heavy 5 flanged mace would do modern body armor? I bet platemail is still better protection than breaching armor.

 

[scotjute]

Not sure whether an axe would cut thru it or not, but if not, you'd be either bruised badly and knocked off your feet or else you'd probably have bones broken. Plate armor or shield deflecting the blow would be about the only way to withstand the blow, better to avoid or deflect than take it straight on.

 

[Dr.Rob]

You realize a hatchet/tomohawk is pretty much a viking war axe?

I used to be really good at throwing one. Still keep such a thing around the camp, occasionally chop wood with it too.

 

[Navy joe]

I had to scale it down a little. Gerber hatchet, lots of grip tape and as sharp as I can make it. Wow, what a handy little tool.