The Credit Card Shotgun Muzzle Loading Pistol

Status
Not open for further replies.

arcticap

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
8,717
Location
Central Connecticut
It's from 1994, but even today the manufacturer's Minneapolis gun shop website is " www.creditcardshotgun.com ".

The article below is from:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinnovations/2004-10-06-lil-gun_x.htm

Posted 10/6/2004 1:56 PM

Minn. store debuts credit-card-sized gun

By Steve Karnowski, Associated Press

MINNEAPOLIS — In a new twist on the idea of concealed weapons, a local gun maker and gun shop are debuting a new type of firearm: one that could almost fit in your wallet.

lilgun-main.jpg

This credit card-sized shotgun, created by a gun store owner for self defense, fires seven standard steel BBs from each barrel.
By Jim Mone, AP

attachment.php


It's a two-shot weapon made from a piece of metal the height and width of a standard credit card, and about a half-inch thick. Each barrel fires seven standard steel BBs. It will retail for $100.

"This I can see being the ultimate self-defense weapon," said Mark Koscielski, owner of Koscielski's Guns and Ammo, the only gun shop in Minneapolis.

Koscielski and Patrick Teel, who makes the guns in suburban Blaine at his company AFT Incorporated, gave The Associated Press a preview on Tuesday, a day before they planned to officially unveil the device.

The credit card-sized shotgun is a muzzleloader, meaning it doesn't use shotgun shells. The user has to measure out some gunpowder, pour it in each barrel, drop seven BBs in each barrel, and tamp in a small wad of paper. A knob on one end serves as a safety, and two buttons set into a hole in the body are the electrical triggers. Each barrel fires with a loud pop.

Another gun salesman was skeptical of the weapon's self-defense value. Mike O'Brien, of Joe's Sporting Goods in St. Paul, wasn't familiar with the new devices, but said muzzleloading is a "slow and tedious" process.

"Us guys here would consider something like that useless," said O'Brien. "A .177 caliber BB is ballistically a joke, OK? I'm sure it could cause injury and damage, but as a self-defense weapon, no. Not to anyone familiar with firearms."

A spokesman for the Brady Center To Prevent Gun Violence was also dismissive.

"It's a silly, silly idea," spokesman Peter Hamm said. "I don't know that I would want to have one of these in my pocket for my own personal safety, never mind the safety of those around me."

Guns that small have been around in various styles for a long time, and some have become curiosities and collectors items, but have failed as weapons, said O'Brien.

"It might do damage to eyes, that sort of thing. But serious damage to a 200-pound drug-crazed evildoer, no — it'd just make them mad," he said.

Teel said the main value of the new gun is that it gives the owner a chance to get away from an attacker.

"This is no more deadly than a .22," Teel said. "But the difference is you have multiple wounds, which means you'll try to get away quicker, and it will cause more pain. ... There will be more blood, which the cops will be able to see."

They said the guns are meant to be used for close-range self-defense and wouldn't be effective as offensive weapons.

"They are very effective at five to 10 feet. They're absolutely useless at 20 feet," Teel said.

The new guns don't count as firearms under federal regulations because they're muzzleloaders, Koscielski and Teel said. It's illegal to carry one in Minnesota without a permit for a concealed handgun, they said, and they both pledged not to sell them to anyone without valid identification and either a carry permit or a purchase permit.

Thirty-seven states have laws that require officials to issue concealed carry permits to qualified applicants and nine others have laws that give officials some discretion over whether someone gets a permit. Only Kansas, Illinois, Nebraska and Wisconsin lack a law allowing some form of concealed carrying of guns.

Hamm said the Brady Center isn't as concerned about the credit card-sized shotgun as it is about more powerful weapons because it's less likely to be lethal. He saluted the makers' ingenuity, but questioned whether the gun will find much of a market.

"It sounds like having a little grenade in your pocket more than anything else," he said.

Koscielski was widely credited with coining the term "Murderapolis" when the city's homicide rate shot up in the 1990s. He's run unsuccessfully for mayor, fought zoning battles to stay in business and been investigated by federal agents.

Koscielski conceded that gun opponents are likely to criticize the new devices. But he said they're legal, will set off metal detectors and are readily identifiable.

"We all have a right to defend ourselves," he said.
 

Attachments

  • lilgun-main.jpg
    lilgun-main.jpg
    7.2 KB · Views: 17
  • lilgun-main250%.jpg
    lilgun-main250%.jpg
    26.1 KB · Views: 287
"It might do damage to eyes, that sort of thing. But serious damage to a 200-pound drug-crazed evildoer, no — it'd just make them mad," he said.

I don't see what's to be so "dismissive" about.
14 steel BB's fired from both barrels at someone's face in a life and death situation seems like it could immediately blind someone. :what:
That would be a horrific injury to inflict on a bad guy but it would sure serve as an effective last ditch show stopper. ;)
 
Last edited:
I would like to see one fired, the grip seems dangerous to the shooter. I nave a NAA companion B/p 22 and it has a nice grip, but can get snappy with max loads.
 
Illegal. Only a matter of time before the ATF figures out that it's an AOW.

"Firearms meeting the definition of “any other weapon” are weapons or devices capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive. Many “any other weapons” are disguised devices such as penguns, cigarette lighter guns, knife guns, cane guns and umbrella guns."

It's one of the definitions where the "antique firearm" exemption does not apply.
 
RyanM said:
Illegal. Only a matter of time before the ATF figures out that it's an AOW.
If it fired a cartridge, you would be correct.

It is, however, a muzzle loader, and muzzle loaders are not bound by the NFA.
 
Incorrect. Muzzleloading "concealed/disguised" AOWs, machine guns, and destructive devices are not exempt. The definition of "rifle," "shotgun," etc., specify the use of a fixed shell. "Machine gun" does not, "concealed AOW" does not, and "destructive device" goes even further, and includes airguns.

There have been BP pen guns the ATF's cracked down on, which is the only important thing at the end of the day.

You'd think 26 U.S.C. 5845(a) would cover it, and maybe it used to, but we all know how the ATF likes to reverse rulings so they can arrest more people.
 
Last edited:
Wish they had some better images of it...

At that point though, why not juust Carry an Over-and-Under .41 Rimfire Remington Deringer?

Well, it would cost a little more, that's true...Lol...
 
Incorrect. Muzzleloading "concealed/disguised" AOWs, machine guns, and destructive devices are not exempt. The definition of "rifle," "shotgun," etc., specify the use of a fixed shell. "Machine gun" does not, "concealed AOW" does not, and "destructive device" goes even further, and includes airguns.

There have been BP pen guns the ATF's cracked down on, which is the only important thing at the end of the day.

You'd think 26 U.S.C. 5845(a) would cover it, and maybe it used to, but we all know how the ATF likes to reverse rulings so they can arrest more people.
I can't find any documentation that would classify this as a AOW. It is a muzzle loader, a non fire arm.

Why would this CC pistol be any different than a NAA cap and ball mini revolver, or a Howdah?
 
Kind of gives a new meaning to the statement, "American Express. Don't leave home without it."
 
The NAA mini revolver is classified as an AOW when it's in a wallet holster.
It's all explained in the following thread, particularly the last paragraph of the reply from the ATF that's found in the PDF file in post #1.

NAA Companion Revolvers with wallet holsters determined to be AOWs

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=473797

That's one of the ones I was thinking of! Thanks for refreshing my memory, Articap.

It comes down to particular definitions of "firearm." A muzzleloading "firearm" must fit into a category of rifle, shotgun, pistol, short-barreled variant, or even smoothbore pistol-type AOW. But machine guns, destructive devices, and concealed-type AOWs aren't counted among the particular types of firearm which can be granted for being a "antique firearm."

A credit card gun, pen gun, cell phone gun, wallet gun, etc., is not a rifle, shotgun, pistol, or variant thereof, therefore it's not a "firearm" under one definition, and cannot be an "antique firearm," and is not exempt. Twisted logic, but them's the rules.

Otherwise pipe bombs stuffed with BP would be totally legal. A hand-lit cannon fuse is as "antique" an ignition system as it gets. But a bomb is much more logically and demonstrably not a "firearm."
 
Keep in mind ATF letters are opinions meant for the person writing to them.

It has been proven that two separate people can write them and ask the same question, only to get two polar responses.

Not to mention the reversals that'd make Wally Gator green(er) with envy. . .
 
Excerpt from one of the ATF's handbooks:

"The second section of the definition states that any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore diameter of more than one-half inch in diameter is a destructive device...

"It is important to note that the large caliber firearms covered by this section are defined as weapons that expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant. This is the only place in the GCA and NFA where a propellant other than an explosive must be considered when classifying a weapon. Examples of weapons having a bore diameter of more than one-half inch in diameter and that expel a projectile by means other than an explosive are mortars that utilize compressed air as a propellant and some rocket launchers."

Air shotguns and big bore air rifles usually end up with exemptions granted for "sporting purpose," same as normal shotguns, elephant guns, etc. But going over .50 cal with anything does put you into a legal gray area. They've ruled that using antipersonnel ammo in big-bore compressed air "potato guns" constitutes an illegal, "non-sporting" destructive device.
 
So, the pneumatic dynamite gun would fall under NFA? We had one on a small cruiser (Vesuvius) and launched dynamite into Havana with it. It wasn't very accurate.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top