The Dreaded Lead.

[bunnielab]

My interest in reloading came about because I wasn't happy with the factory offerings in .357mag. The "cowboy" loads were too soft and UMC and the like were too hot for my poor little SAA clone. I wanted something in the middle, soft-ish shooting but with enough *bang* to make it satisfying.

I figured that for .357mag, somewhere around 1100-1300fps should be about right.

Here is my question, at what velocities do i have to start worrying about cast bullets leading my barrel? I have read in various places that 1000fps will do it, other places claim that I'm safe up to 1400. I know it must depend on bullet hardness but I would love to get a rough idea on what I can get away with.

As a second, related question, is adding gas checks to purchased cast bullets too expensive/difficult to be worth it?

 

[NuJudge]

Barrel roughness, bullet hardness, lube quality, tight fit of bullet to barrel groove, velocity and gas check are things that influence Leading.

A rough barrel will Lead at a relatively low velocity.

A hard bullet can be run faster than a soft bullet without Leading, except when a bullet is undersize. Some people get good results with soft bullets run at slow and medium velocities, trusting to really fast powders to upset the bullets to fit the groove diameter.

I like good old 50/50 lube. It has never failed me. Eventually, I will try Felix lube too. With it, I have run .30-'06 bullets up over 2200 fps with no problems.

A loose bullet fit will cause lots of gas to blow-by, cutting lots of Lead off the bullet and depositing it in the barrel. A cast bullet should be a thou or so large.

You cannot add a Gas Check to a bullet not designed for it. A Gas Check allows me to easily run rifle bullets in a smooth barrel up well over 2000 fps.

CDD

 

[bunnielab]

Ok, thanks for the info. I will slug the barrels of my guns and buy slightly over sized bullets and see what happens.

 

[dmftoy1]

If you run across some "Chore Boy" copper scouring pads it might not be a bad idea to pick those up as well as they'll help you remove any leading you experience.

It's just my .02 . ..but I don't think you'll be able to push those velocities with off the shelf cast boolits. If you were casting your own and selecting your own lube then I think you'd have a better chance. A gas checked boolit can hit those velocities but then you loose some of the savings of a cast.

Have a good one,
Dave

 

[Walkalong]

I will slug the barrels of my guns

Match the bullets to the cylinder throats, not the barrel. You should have no trouble getting some hard cast bullets to run at that velocity in the .357 without leading. It may take a bit of trial and error, but you can do it. Don't give up and just "accept" leading. You don't have to.

 

[armoredman]

Running .38 Spl loads at well below 1000FPS, cast wheel weight bullets, no leading issues. The 158gr Lee mold I use allows for gas checks, but I haven't needed any yet. Plenty of oomph, and accurate, too.

 

[bobaloo]

I shoot SWC bullets in my 357 at around 1400-1450 fps, full power old fashioned .357 mag loads, with no leading at all. Matching the bullet to the bore, good lube and a smooth barrel are the "secrets". Just casting them out of wheel weights, water dropped and lubed with Alox.

With cast there's a lot of factors that can come into play, but bullet diameter is the main one IMHO.

If you do get leading as the previous poster said the best tool is some copper choreboy wrapped around a brush, that will take it right out.

 

[Quoheleth]

Check out Missouri Bullets. He Brinell-hardeness numbers his bullets for the appropriate pressure & velocities. He has everything from soft .38 target to hot .357 magnum stuff. I've some of both and they seem to work well in my GP100.

From http://www.missouribullet.com/ (go to his "technical" page), he tells how to figure out what BRI hardness you need. He then states,

At the Missouri Bullet Company, we optimize bullets for your intended application. We don't take a “one size fits all” approach to manufacturing your bullets. Every box of our bullets displays the BHN, which we constantly sample and monitor. We take the time to create lead bullet alloy that is specialized for the bullet hardness that works best for you. It is a fact that we spend significantly more time alloying our lead than we do in making the bullets that come from it and we do this to provide you the right bullet for your application.

Q

 

[Sam1911]

I ran into severe lead issues with my new 629 last summer.

Turns out the chamber throats were quite a bit undersized from the factory.

I sent my cylinder off to cylindersmith.com and had him ream them to the proper diameter for lead bullets (I think its 0.005" over bore size) and my lead dropped off by about 90%.

Mic. your throats. Might find something interesting there.

-Sam

 

[Walkalong]

Mic. your throats. Might find something interesting there.

Yep.

You are going to do this anyway to match up your bullets to them, but like Sam1911 says, if they are under sized you will get a lot of leading.

.0005 to .001 over bore size is optimum. A bit more is OK.

 

[Sgt.Dusk]

I shoot about 100 lead bullets, and then "wipe" the barrel with couple FMJs.
that has worked just fine.

 

[bunnielab]

Quoheleth, thanks for the link to Missouri Bullet, thats exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks to everyone for their advice, I am going to slug the cylinders of my clone and get a dental mirror to check my rifle's barrel. I have some good places to start and from here its just a matter to tinkering around, which seems like half the fun of reloading anyway.

Thanks again

 

[Floppy_D]

Agree with Sgt. Dusk.

 

[Oohrah]

I use gas check bullets when in doubt. Although I have shot
cast 158 gr SWC in one gun up to 1200 fps without any signs of
leading. Avoid any swagged lead as they are too soft. Had a
fun time with them and a 45 ACP barrel. Suggest the higher vel-
ocity to go to the jacketed bullets. The 1 part tin to 9 parts lead
cast hold up to moderate loads pretty well.

 

[Archer1945]

If you want some very good info about cast bullets and velocity check out John Ross's info on the S&W 500 magnum on his website,
www.john-ross.net, or PM him on this site, he is a member. He shoots nothing but cast bullets and at velocities equal to what you would normally find only in rifles. Btw, he doesn't use gas checks.

 

[stubbicatt]

Lead solvent

The choreboy recommended above will work, true enough. I have used a solution of 50/50 household white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide to get the lead out of my auto pistol barrels with no adverse effects.

Takes only 3 to 5 minutes soak time, and a dry patch. I immediately immerse the barrel in water and dry it and wipe down with CLP.

It works for me, and doesn't require any effort to remove the blob of lead from the barrel. Just one dry patch.

YMMV.

 

[Fatelvis]

Mic. your throats. Might find something interesting there.

Or a quick and easy, (but less precise) way of checking is to drop a sized/lubed/checked bullet into your clean cylinder. The bullet shouldnt fall through. Optimally, it should be able to be pushed through the throat, and fall to the ground, by using a pencil, or something of the sort.

 

[bunnielab]

I just tried Fatelvis's suggestion. The cast bullets I get locally (.357) drop in then get stuck, but easily pushed out with a pencil. However, Speer JHP (also .357) will drop right through.

Also, I will be loading and shooting a marlin 1894, also in .357mag. I know that revolvers can be damaged by shooting a lot of soft lead bullets followed by a JHP, is there any cause for worry for a rifle?

You guys have been very helpful so far, thank you very much.