The Fiscal Cliff and Gun Control.

[PRM]

The Fiscal Cliff and Gun Control.

1. The American Revolution was fought over individual freedom and the issue of taxation.

"In his testimony to the Parliament in Feb. 1766, Ben Franklin estimated the tax rate in Colonial Pennsylvania at 12.5%. He was arguing that Americans already paid their fair share of taxes..."

You think the founding fathers would be appalled at what our government is doing today???

The Second Amendment was important to the founding fathers for specific reasons:

* deterring tyrannical government;
* repelling invasion;
* suppressing insurrection;
* facilitating a natural right of self-defense;
* participating in law enforcement;
* enabling the people to organize a militia system.

I heard a comment the other day, "that you don't need an AR-15 to hunt deer..." The Second Amendment wasn't about killing food!!! Without arms the American Revolution would never have occurred. Its Patriots had overthrown a tyrannical government, and knew the future of the country would never be safe unless they retained the means to draw that line again, should the need arise.

Is it really a surprise to anyone that Obama and the liberals are determined to take away and control guns.




“The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.”
― Edmund Burke

 

[VVelox]

I would just like to take a moment to point out that the people pushing this are not liberals, but actually social conservatives.

While this may seem like a unusual idea, it is very interestingly true. The reason for this is that a social conservative is one that looks at either the current or past as being prime example of what something should be, regardless of the truth in it.

What I've noticed is it is primarily being pushed by urban areas. These are areas in which tend to involve very heavy othering of firearm owners, meaning they sort of go unnoticed as they keep quite. This in turn leads to the belief that firearms are not needed being re-enforced.

This problem further manifests in fewer are raised with any vaguely useful knowledge on firearms other than what they have been told by sources that very notably engage in othering.

This in turn gets more convoluted once regionalism comes into play when it comes to regarding any one of rural origin as being a clueless redneck.

And to add to this as the FCC has done a very notable role in helping with media consolidation this means most media is controlled by a smaller number of companies with very specific interests and biases, given they are run out of urban areas with the previously mentioned issues.

I believe a lot of headway could be made by beginning to point out the bigotry and othering involved in the system as it helps rob them of their self righteousness.

Or at least this has been what I've noticed here in Chicago.

 

[VVelox]

Also it is amusing to watch them flail when pointing out a AR or AK is a perfectly fine hunting rifle once a magazine of the size specified in the state hunting regs is inserted, provided rifle hunting is allowed in that state.

 

[VVelox]

Generally the argument I hear about the entire threat of force against the government is that it is not possible, given they have tanks etc.

This though is rebut-table by pointing out that it does not mean much as via guerrilla tactics a notably superior force can be successfully engaged.

This in turn will invoke the argument that the government has already overstepped their bounds, but no one has done nothing. This is the point at which it gets tricky, but the answer to this is fairly simple, which is to point out that it is a last resort. Now when or how it will become important is impossible to answer as no one can see the future, but the important thing to remember is all governments eventually fall. Given that the citizens should have the ability to handle it, even if it does not happen in their lifetime.

This will generally be countered by pointing out that peaceful revolutions are possible. This is countered by pointing out we don't know the future and what it will entail once the inevitable does eventually happen. As such a semi-automatic rifle is the perfect hedging of a bet.





The other thing I generally encounter as a rebuttal to the armed citizens argument is a reduction to the absurd stating that it should also mean citizens should have access to missles, mines, etc. This can be rebutted by pointing out that personal direct fire non-area effect weaponry is a individual's weapon where as area affect and indirect fire are a collective's weapon.

 

[Hacker15E]

Generally the argument I hear about the entire threat of force against the government is that it is not possible, given they are tanks etc.

What I love is the idea that, personally-owned firearms in America are too weak to defend against a military turned against its citizenry, but are also simultaneously military-grade weaponry that can spray bullets from high-capacity assault clips and kill hundreds at a time and which us mere mortal non-military, non-police are too unprepared to handle responsibly.

In addition, the argument about there being no way a population with only small arms could effectively hold an insurgency against armor and airpower is quite easily countered with two examples: Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

The Fiscal Cliff and Gun Control.

1. The American Revolution was fought over individual freedom and the issue of taxation.

While the Colonists were certainly fired up about liberty and taxation, what ignited the Revolutionary War was the British marching on Lexington and Concord to sieze guns and ammunition.

 

[PRM]

While the Colonists were certainly fired up about liberty and taxation, what ignited the Revolutionary War was the British marching on Lexington and Concord to sieze guns and ammunition.

Great point

“Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government.”
― Edmund Burke, Reflections on the Revolution in France

 

[Robert]

I could edit the political and OT bits out of the op but then there would not be too much left. I know these are volatile times but THR does not allow politics as it never ends well. If we want to make a real difference, or at least try, start writing letters and making phone calls.