The Good Old Mail Order Days

[Clermont]

Prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968, dewat machine guns were unregulated, no paperwork. If I remember correctly, the only requirement was that the dealer selling a dewat was required to record information on the original purchaser. The problem with dewats was that dewats were easily restored to full auto, eventually requiring registration in the GCA. This is an article, from the December 1955 American Rifleman, on the Internal Revenue Service's deactivation program.

 

[BBDartCA]

We lust over this stuff now. But watch out ... 30 years from now you could have people lusting over pictures of people being able to buy a gun, period.

 

[gfanikf]

Prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968, dewat machine guns were unregulated, no paperwork. If I remember correctly, the only requirement was that the dealer selling a dewat was required to record information on the original purchaser. The problem with dewats was that dewats were easily restored to full auto, eventually requiring registration in the GCA. This is an article, from the December 1955 American Rifleman, on the Internal Revenue Service's deactivation program.

Thanks Clermont, that actually explains a lot. So most of the ads were for dewats, and then some does all the work to reactivate it on their end, does that sound correct?

 

[jrdolall]

They would have sold a lot more guns if they had put these specials on the internet rather than these print ads

 

[Clermont]

Thanks Clermont, that actually explains a lot. So most of the ads were for dewats, and then some does all the work to reactivate it on their end, does that sound correct?

That is correct but the problem, with the Internal Revenue Service, was that some dewats were being reactivated but not registered.

 

[gfanikf]

They would have sold a lot more guns if they had put these specials on the internet rather than these print ads

LOL!

Like I said I tend to think of C&R as a continuation of this (just no new registered mg). Heck, I think the Internet has helped circumvent the "mail order ban" even for regular guns, yes you need an FFL, but people have the variety and price selection that existed post GCA pre Internet for most consumers. Then again they also did have the George HW Bush Semi Auto Import Ban to deal with...and other nonsense.

 

[D Rat]

IIRR
Klein's was the store wear Lee Harvy Oswald got the Carcono that killer JFK

 

[D Rat]

The first shotgun I bought, a Sears-Roebuck 12 ga double (Stevens 311, rebadged "Sears") sold for $79.95 in their catalog. I was 15-16 at the time, and my mother had to call and order it, but it was just delivered to the house, C.O.D. (Does anyone even ship "C.O.D." anymore? Probably not.). I also ordered a couple of boxes of shotgun shells (Sears/Ted Williams) and a brown canvas hunting coat. Total bill was probably still less than $100.00. This would have been in the mid 60's, just before the GCA 68 got passed.

I worked on a farm that summer to earn that money. Five dollars a day, 10-12 hour days. Of course grown ups made more, but that was big money back then for a kig growing up out in rural Virginia.

I see those Sears/Stevens 311's once in while still today. They seem to go for $350-400.00.

The first shotgun I bought was a Springfield 12Ga.pump from Sears-Roebuck 1965-payed 63.00 OTD ,I also have one of the canves hunting coat's 1950s
Sure miss those days.
D Rat

 

[gfanikf]

That is correct but the problem, with the Internal Revenue Service, was that some dewats were being reactivated but not registered.

Okay I understand. What was the process though for a straight mg sale at the time? I know it's arcane, but I'm interested in what forms were used (CLEO was still needed I realize)...and heck what the turn around time was since there were no FFLs involved or needed. I'm a lawyer and history dork so procedural things like this are of interest (and I suspect only of interest) to me.

 

[wally]

IIRR
Klein's was the store wear Lee Harvy Oswald got the Carcono that killer JFK

Yes its true and it was traced back to Oswald without needing anything other than normal business records of who bought it and where they mailed it to! IIRR, it was "traced" well before Ruby assassinated Oswald.

 

[Midwest]

Okay I understand. What was the process though for a straight mg sale at the time? I know it's arcane, but I'm interested in what forms were used (CLEO was still needed I realize)...and heck what the turn around time was since there were no FFLs involved or needed. I'm a lawyer and history dork so procedural things like this are of interest (and I suspect only of interest) to me.

I would like to know as well, I study gun control laws and like to know how these things evolved.

 

[Prince Yamato]

It was the same process as now, you just wouldn't go through an ffl.

1. Buy gun
2. Fill out form 4
3. Get LEO sign off
4. Send $200 check to ATF
5. Wait a long time
6. Pick up MG.

The only difference would be you didn't need to do a 4473. It would be like a "FTF" mg sale.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Those old ads make me wistful. I realize a dollar bought more then but Colt and SW 1917's for $30? Ah those were the days.

Not to mention MG's and such. The buckets of Lugers and 1911's available just boggles the mind.

 

[leadcounsel]

Someday we'll look back at 2011 being the glory days of gun ownership...

"We could CCW practically anywhere..."

"You could order a C&R and have it shipped to your door; Mosins were only $90 and C&R rifles and pistols were plentiful... you could get K31s, Mausers, SKS, etc..."

"Ammo was still easy to find, and you could buy it by the case without taking out a loan..."

"You could buy and sell a gun face to face with others without the need for a NICS check."

Enjoy these times while they last... I suspect they may disappear soon...

 

[andrewstorm]

your attitude is the lackadaisical type that allows governments....

"Someday we'll look back at 2011 being the glory days of gun ownership."..

.....To strip citizens of their rights,.......i beg to differ with you lead council....I think were going back to lesser restrictions on gun ownership and constitutional carry......at least in some states.by the way this is 2012...LOL

 

[wally]

Enjoy these times while they last... I suspect they may disappear soon...

Only if we let them! You gotta fight for your rights!

We did a horrible job of it in the 60's on, until Bill Clinton's actions woke everyone up.

 

[leadcounsel]

I certainly hope that comment about being lazy and indifferent wasn't directed at me...

I've served the USA in the Army on multiple combat deployments, am a lifelong member of the NRA, and vote 'pro gun.'

 

[Clermont]

This mail order advertisement, from the August 1963 American Rifleman, for Klein's Sporting Goods includes the Mannlicher Carcano Lee that Harvey Oswald purchased from Klein's to use in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on November 22nd of that year. Perhaps it was this advertisement that prompted Oswald to order the Carcano. You will notice, in the advertisement, that the photos for the Carcano and the Mk5 No.1 jungle carbine are switched. Milton Klein, owner of Klein's Sporting Goods, also co-founded Gun Digest in 1944.

 

[Gunnerboy]

These ads make me so sad that i can never experiance the great gun deals of yesteryear.

 

[mboylan]

So what was the process of buying a machine gun by the mail before the GCA? I mean you still had to pay a stamp tax, but nothing besides a DEWAT (deactivated war trophy) is mentioned anywhere In the ads.

You had to go through a similar process as today. $200 was at least 2 weeks pay for most people. Trusts were not accepted. You had to get a CLEO signoff. Most would tell you to pound sand.

 

[Clermont]

Here is another mail order advertisement, from the March 1963 American Rifleman, for the Eastern Firearms Company of New Brunswick, New Jersey.

 

[Owen Sparks]

There was a time when you could mail order a Colt made Thompson gun, if you could afford it. They cost $200. Factor in inflation and that is the equivelant of about $2,500 in 2012 dollars!
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
That was a lot during the great depression.