The Mighty Mattel

Status
Not open for further replies.

Blain

member
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
993
post-6-34104-mattelm16a1.jpg


"I will never forget the time I was ordered to report to the company armor to turn in my M14 and pick up my new Matel Toy (Matel made some of the stocks for the early M16s, including mine), otherwise known as the M16. I was truly amazed at it's light weight and the fact that it would empty a 20 round mag in no time flat when it was on full auto. Other than that it was the worst combat weapon I had ever seen or carried and the only thing that saved my hide was that my MOS was that of a machine gunner and it did not take long for me to work my way up the ladder to where I did not have to carry it or use it to keep me alive.

Reliability, durability and dependability were out the window as far as I was concerned. There were so many of my Brothers, whose names might not be on the Wall in DC today, if it not had been for what they were issued to defend themselves. Involved with constant troop movement, it was difficult to simply stop and clean your weapon and whenever possible, we all did as best we could and the majority of the time we would still have problems with jamming and malfunctions. To this day, I do not care to even so much as touch one. Matter of fact, I recently was employed (for approx. 3 years) at a local gun store and range and I always cleaned the rental weapons after use except for the AR/M16. The boss never pressed me to do it and understood my feelings. Over the years I have spoke with numerous owners of the AR/M16 who all loved them and never had any problems but when I asked, none of them had used theirs in a combat situation and always had the time to keep the weapon neat and clean. Understandable in that type of scenario but no matter what the case may be, reliability, dependability and durability is out the window as far as I am concerned. Glad I had the Sixty and if I would not have had that opportunity, I would have scarfed up an AK47 from my enemy or broke into the armory to retrieve my M14. Just my two cents worth and no pun intended for anyone who owns an AR or M16. Your turn ..."

"I dunno how much the last 35 years has been refining, or just polishing the turd. I know for a fact the M16A1s I was issued were grossly unreliable and I doubt the vaunted forward assist helped in one out of 50 cases.

The A2 arrived at my unit with much fanfare about the high-speed, low-drag "heavy barrel". I quickly found out is was NOT a Colt HBAR when I boloed the first time around on qualification. In the prone unsupported I took up a damn tight sling hold (like I do with my Garand when I'm playing with the boys) and was rock steady, and pulled almost every shot low.

Turns out only the last 4 inches of the barrel at the muzzle end is "heavy", the rest is as flimsy as the A1 so it will take the M203. What do I mean by flimsy? Well, the Army's own tests revealed a really tight sling hold is enough to pull shots as much as 4 inches low at 100....8 at 200...16 at 300.

Then they had to find the worst possible 3-shot burst device on the planet (I'm willing to bet H&K or FN have something better). It doesn't automatically reset to 3 if you don't fire three, so if you shoot two your next burst may be a burst of one, kind of like an Army of One maybe.

AND it does icky things to the trigger pull, which many, including myself, consider to be one of the most important aspects of good marksmanship. The burst regulator helps the semi-auto pull wander from 5 to 8 to 11 pounds.

At least ours didn't jam when we got them, but they were brand new. I notice the manual says that in inclimate weather the weapon AND ammunition may need cleaning "many times daily". Serving only a minor part in Storm at the end of my service I don't claim to be a real veteran, but c'mon, anyone who's at least spent real time in the field would have to find that advice ludicrous.

Any fool knows to clean or at least empty a rifle after it's been submerged, but the manual also states you need to do that with the M16A2 if IT'S BEEN EXPOSED TO DEW?!?!? I'm glad the Marines slogging through seawater and sand and volcanic ash at Iwo Jima had weapons (M1s) that could be exposed to dew.

When I went to the range as a reserve deputy, I watched the SO's AR-15s have numerous failures to feed while the PD's Mini-14s just kept chugging away. I now carry a Mini in the back window of my truck for varmints and stray liberals, clean it maybe twice a year, and it always goes bang when I want it to.

Now I see Col. David Hackworth on Fox & Freinds morning show talking about our boys in Afghanistan having trouble with the M-4 jamming. Where are you when we need you John Moses Browning?"
 
I must admit that I would like to own an AR-15 for a range rifle. But, it is many stories like this one from the folks who would know....that made me decide to buy my AK-47 variant first.
The reliability of my rifle is my primary concern, and all other criteria comes second.
Well written, and very informative.
 
Funny, last time I checked we're winning the gunfights with these "Toys"....and the Iraqis/Al Queda/Taliban armed with rugged, reliable AK's are dying by the bushel.

My AR's have never missed a beat, even when not clean or maintained in some questionable circumstances & conditions and I've had dust & dirt all over and in them. Heck, they don't even mind the most bottom-of-the-barrel Russian steel cased ammo. Just doesn't make sense, don't my "Mattels" know they're not supposed to run or function? It just don't add up, but I don't claim to be as smart as Hackworth (insert scarcasm).

Ok, back to bashing the M16....this never gets old does it?
 
Actually, this is where I got the picture from.

http://www.battlerifles.com/viewtopic.php?t=24054

The guy who knows the guy who made it is quoted below. (Hint, it is a REAL stamping, not a photo edit)

Actually the stampings are not fake.. there is a homegunsmiting site I'm a member in and one of the members did that engraving an a 0% forging with a CNC mill and completed the build. Granted the stampings isn't from a GI M-16 but it was done as a joke.
 
Blain,

My experience is quite different than yours. The first four months in country I carried a 60 and when I made squad leader my issue was a 16. My 16 never missed a beat. When I pulled the trigger it went bang and kept it up until the trigger was released. My 16 was a A1.

My unit worked worked the Central Highlands around Ankhe and then for a couple of months along the costal plains Bon Song and the surrounding mountians.

The most rounds I ever put through my 16 in one setting was 12-13 Mags. in a firefight south of Ankhe and it worked like a charm. I was never aware of a 16 jamming in my platoon.

Have a good day and remember to pray for our troops around the world.

Turk
173rd Abn. Bdge (sep)
RVN 68-69
 
I never had a bit of problem using a tight Marine Corps sling on an M16A2. My shots were always right on target. I never noticed any change in the barrel diameter except where it widened out for the chamber. I'll have to pay more attention next time I clean one.
 
Blain,

I was sorry to hear about your bad experience. I'm glad you found a rifle that works for you. As others have mentioned, my experience is quite different than yours. I've had no issues with the M-4, in Afghanistan or elsewhere.
 
Holy Moly!! I'm supposed to clean my AR??!!

Seriously, without having taken an AR into a combat zone (and being physical DQ'd from ever doing so) my experience has been that they run and run and run. I don't like shooting under covered areas and won't stay home unless the weather is bad. Snow-storm the other day, rain-storms over the summer, heavy pollen, high humidity, etc, etc; through it all my Armalite hasn't jammed yet. (And I am far from meticulous in my maintaince schedule.)

Then again, I'm a target shooter and used to view the AR as a toy (being raised on M-1 Garands and such-not). Now I shoot it because I will never be able to win with an M1A/M-14.
 
Funny, last time I checked we're winning the gunfights with these "Toys"....and the Iraqis/Al Queda/Taliban armed with rugged, reliable AK's are dying by the bushel.

Swingset,

That may have something to do with our technological and training advantages over our enemies and less to do with our general issue small arms. Don't get me wrong, I like the M-16/M4 family. Heck, if I could afford it, I'd buy another to replace the one I sold years ago. Oh, and by the way, I've carried an M4 (S/N W016312) in places like Kosovo and Afghanistan. However, there's just something about Stealth fighters, secure, encrypted communications, fire-and-forget missiles, GPS, and our night-vision equipment that makes it a bit of a one-sided fight.

Frank
 
Turk, Blackhawk 6,

Those aren't Blain's experiences with the M-16 that he posted. Actually, Blain has no experiences with the M-16 to relate. He's pretty good at, erm, sharing his opinion, though. :uhoh:
 
Aw, Tam cut him some slack. He saw one once in a TV show. :rolleyes:

He knows the AR series is junk - heck, he read it on the internet and it dosen't fire buckshot.....
 
Hey Blain, good post. Hold steady through all the sharp-tongued rhetoric from those that should know better (and one who never will).

Like most of the other unknowns in life, we're often forced to first read into any subject that we desire information about, as first hand experience isn’t always practical and seldom readily available. And it’s foolhardy in the extreme to dismiss good information from the first hand experience of others.

Sit tight and wait for the second coming of AR excuses when the Armed Services finally give up on the breed. It should be a good show!
 
What sharp-tongued rhetoric is that, kurty? I simply asked Blain to tell us about his first hand experience with two rifles about which he has some very strong opinions. You, I see, are still playing the coy little games I've pm'ed you about.
 
Here is an idea Blain. If you are going to flat out steal somebody else's writings and pictures why don't you give them CREDIT for it?

The way your post reads it makes it sound like these are your first hand experiences, when in actuality they are not. I consider that dishonest plagerism.

And don't dismiss me as being a knee jerk AR defender because I personally hate the dang things.
 
In Blain's defense, everything is in quotation marks and I realized from the beginning that he was not recounting his own experiences.
 
The way your post reads it makes it sound like these are your first hand experiences, when in actuality they are not. I consider that dishonest plagerism.


I have it in quotation marks, sorry for the confusion. I was going to post the origonal link to the thread it was posted on, but that link no longer exists so.......

I did think that the gentleman's wisdom was too useful to let it die off, so I rekindled it.


As to my AR/M14 experience? I have fired both and own M14s and M1s. Obviously, I have never taken either on field condition exercises, so I rely upon the stories and accounts of others who have.
 
I did think that the gentleman's wisdom was too useful to let it die off, so I rekindled it.

Wisdom?



Pessimism is more like it. Thousands of Marines have managed to qualify as expert on the USMC KD range with the rifle this guy boloed :confused: with.

I quickly found out is was NOT a Colt HBAR when I boloed the first time around on qualification.
 
Obviously, I have never taken either on field condition exercises, so I rely upon the stories and accounts of others who have.
You mean like Turk's account posted on this thread? Or does his not matter since the weapon worked well for him and his platoon?
 
Turk, I have not seen your name in awhile. I too had a good M-16 as did the men of my infantry company in Nam in 68. It was and is a fine weapon. I have no idea of the number of magazines we went through on March 5th, 69.Just keep a three prong flash suppressor handi for opening C ration cases.
Byron
 
Well in his defense; I have a Bushmaster 20" upper with a freefloating barrel tube. If I sling up using the attachment connected to the front sight it shifts my POI up and left about 4" at 100 yards. Havent tried it with the tube yet, as I just installed the sling stud. :confused:
 
Ok, while we're on the field experience bit here, I'll throw in mine, although it's only range experience which is far less brutal on equipment than real combat.

AK/SKS - Several thousands of rounds through each, gotta love that cheap wolf ammo, and I remember one freak occasion when a case ejected, hit the wood post next to the bench, then bounced back and got stuck when the bolt was closing from the next round. Aside from that, it has been completely reliable, though it has the ergonomics of a dump truck.

M14 - A few hundred round, no problems. Nice rifle, but I dont have extensive experience, seems very sturdy and robust.

AR15 - Several Hundred rounds (approx. 1500) and I recall a decent handful of problems. Mostly jams, double feeds, and failures to extract. One time the back half of the case was ejected and the front half remained in the chamber. This is a very fun gun when it's behaving, very accurate and top notch ergonomics but I wouldnt want to take it into the field or butt-stroke someone to death with it.

I was not religious about cleaning the AR, once every few range sessions, though the AK and SKS were cleaned once in a blue moon.

Those were just my experiences, make of them what you will.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top