The Myth of Old West Gun Violence

[Sunray]

"...made the headlines in New York City..." 19th Century NYC(and every other Eastern city) was far more dangerous than anywhere in the "Wild West". Nothing to do with the availability of firearms either. Too many people living in too little space and rampant poverty.
"...the cowboys all packed handguns..." Nope. Most didn't make enough money to own a handgun. They got issued one by the rancher, if the job they were doing required one. Most 19th Century photographs were staged using props.
"...THERE money..." Where?

 

[Pawdog]

Abilene is in Taylor County. By 1890 the city had a population of 3,194; twenty years later the number of residents was 9,204.
http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/hda01

Pretty hard to get one murder per 100,000. Just are not that many people.

I believe the reference is to Abilene, Kansas, not Texas.

 

[Onmilo]

A lot of people considered to be "Bad Men" quietly swung from ropes back then too.

The myth of the old west isn't so much the lack of recorded murders, the myth is that a lot of people got killed very quietly and not a whole lot was said about it.

The cowtowns you mention aren't noted for brash violence and some famous Marshalls and Sheriffs come from those areas.
Men who had reputations that would turn all but the most cold hearted to wiggle jelly at the thought of going into those towns for the purpose of mayhem.

You don't cite any mining towns like Bodie, Goldwater, or even San Francisco where a man took his own life in his hands just going into these places for supplies.

The Old West was a mean, violent, dirty place to make a living.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Many European settlers did not have guns in there home country and, as been said, could not afford them.

What? Couldn't afford them? But... a gun only cost a few bucks!

Firearms manufactured per capita then vs now may be a good way to judge how many people had guns.

 

[deadin]

Literacy was about 100 percent, in the late 1700s.

I will also dispute this. My wife is a genealogist and has been doing transcriptions of marriage records/bonds from the 1790's and you would be amazed just how many folks had to sign their name with an "X". ("make their mark")

 

[Curator]

Blueyes,

A Colt 1873 revolver cost $13.50 to $15.00 in 1880. The average pay for cow hands was about $5.00 per month. Imagine 3 month's pay for a handgun. That's expensive; the equivalent of $6000 for today's worker. Interestingly some of those guns that survived this era in good shape are actually worth that now.

 

[Taillebois]

Curator;

The cost of firearms and ammunition did tend to limit the use of firearms, even in serious situations. In the immediate post civil war period two argonauts were walking from Westport KS to Ten Mile house in Colorado.
They had offended the Cheyenne/Arapaho somewhere near today's state border. In this incident they had a 'needle gun' (likely a Springfield breach loader) and less than 20 cartridges, and one pistol. The passage consists of holding the rifle up and aiming it when the Indians got too close, and during the entire sequence neither side fired anything. Cartridges were often rare and quite expensive (or unattainable in open country) so the fullisades shown in the movies were quite rare.

Also as the relative level of violence, because of the draft riots in New York, the Haymarket incident, the Great RR strike of 1877, the Unions and Mine companies struggles the number of people who died in the east resultant from the use firearms may have been considerably higher.

If one leaves out the open wars between the government and the tribal peoples the west was not as violent as the movies and etc implied. In general these isolated settlements did have firearms in some numbers. But whether it was a isolated homestead or small town, people needed contacts.
So more often it was 'hallo the house' or communal activities (bars, dances, revivals) etc than clanking up with a weapon and staring each other down with steely eyes. These people needed news from back in the states, socializing etc because of their isolation and so did not generally jeopardize these sources by stupid conduct with a firearm. People used to ride walk from Leadville to Fairplay just to visit for example, and if the firearm was carried it was more for pot meat, signalling, bear issues than any real need to be shooting at anybody. And it may have been quite common to leave the old wagon gun or heavy revolver at home in preference to a light rifle or pistol, in trips like these, just to avoid having to carry the thing.

And as noted unless someone was literally out on the range, firearms were often left at home or not openly carried especially in towns which had customs or laws to not be acting up.

 

[BBQLS1]

A Colt 1873 revolver cost $13.50 to $15.00 in 1880. The average pay for cow hands was about $5.00 per month. Imagine 3 month's pay for a handgun. That's expensive; the equivalent of $6000 for today's worker. Interestingly some of those guns that survived this era in good shape are actually worth that now.

I bet there was a better deal for used. Cap and ball probably stayed particularly popular. Even Wild Bill Hickok wore them till he died in 1876.

 

[Cosmoline]

Colt revolvers were the high end. There were still a lot of cap and ball revolvers in use and circulation, not to mention all of the muzzleloading pistols and even flintlocks that were still in use.

It's almost certain that drovers were not the well armed, well respected gunslingers we imagine them to be in the movies. They were on the very lowest rung of society, and were paid accordingly.

But because cowboys could not afford a Colt doesn't mean nobody could. Colt sold plenty, and Winchester sold many many more. The millions of buffalo didn't just drop dead from strong language. Hunters used everything from high end cartridge rifles to chopped off muzzleloaders loaded by spitting a ball into the barrel.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Cowhands didn't make much money, but they made more than $5 a month. Just about all I've read for the past 20 years is the history from the end of the War of Northern Aggression until the turn of the century. From everything I gather, they made about $30 a month with meals and lodging included. That still makes a $15 revolver an expensive endevour though.

 

[Onmilo]

Wages for a Western Infantry Private were $16.00 a Month.
A trail cow hand could earn $500 for a four month ride.

Town people earned about $80 a month on average but a lot of the pay was in barter.

You could buy cartridge conversion revolvers for about $8-$10, Bulldogs for $10-$20 and a Single Action Army for about $35, yes there was price gouging going on out West.

 

[Checkman]

Silverado was not a realistic western in anyway whatsoever. I believe it was actually a tribute to the 1950Hollywood westerns. Except in one part.

Right after Kevin Klines character is pulled out of the ground by Scott Glenn (almost at the beginning of the movie) he has no clothes and his saddle, horse, hat and guns are gone. For a brief time you see him wearing old raggedy, clothes that don't fit and a cluncky,rickety revolver stuffed into his pants pocket.

Nothing is tailored and everything is improvised. Probably are more accurate portrayl of the old west. But what fun is that?

 

[Oyeboten]

Pardon me, I spoke in haste.

More like 98 percent then.


Visit any middle school now, or high school, look at the papers the children turn in.

While technically, they are regarded as 'literate', practically speacking, they are only just that - 'technically literate', functionally/practically illiterate.


A few years ago I had a friend who was a middle school Teacher...I would help her grade papers sometimes when she was behind.

As a casual evaluation, compared to say, a similar class of children of 1880 - 1960, where one would find 100 percent Literacy, I would be lucky to find one 'Literate' Pupil out of every twenty now, even if technically they can print misformed letters onto paper or sign their name.


Anyway...far as that goes...

 

[Joe Demko]

Visit any middle school now, or high school, look at the papers the children turn in.

You have done this in how many schools in how many districts in how many states?

A few years ago I had a friend who was a middle school Teacher...I would help her grade papers sometimes when she was behind.

There's a claim to expertise that really commands respect.

As a casual evaluation, compared to say, a similar class of children of 1880 - 1960, where one would find 100 percent Literacy, I would be lucky to find one 'Literate' Pupil out of every twenty now, even if technically they can print misformed letters onto paper or sign their name.

How many papers from how many schools in how many districts from how many states and in what time periods have you studied? Can I see the rubric you used for evaluation of those papers? Can I see your data?

I'm pretty sure 98% to 100% of what you have to say on this topic can be safely disregarded as you...imagined...all of it.

 

[trickshot]

We also need to remember that what constitutes a homicide in the late 1800's vs. our time are not necessarily equal.

I'm not an expert on this subject, but I just finished reading the biography of Wyatt Earp, "Wyatt Earp Frontier Marshall". I already returned the book to the library so can't give exact quotes, but that book gives plenty of evidence that in all of those famous frontier towns where he was the marshal or sheriff, people where shot to death all the time (until Wyatt was made the peace officer in that place). Very few of the deaths were officially counted as murder. Most of the shootings were considered self defense. If innocent bystanders happened to get killed by a stray bullet during a shootout it was considered an accident, and in that time and place no one was prosecuted for accidental killings. The book also tells about people being murdered in cold blood by outlaws, but it seems that many times those victims were not reported to the law.

I found his biography to be one of the most fascinating stories I have ever read. His real life exploits were so incredible, he was almost like a super hero. A lot better than any movie.

 

[xfyrfiter]

deleted

 

[lot21]

Bank robberies were very rare in the "old west" too. I've read where from 1859 to 1900 there were less than 10 bank robberies in those 40 or so years.

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/the-non-existent-frontier-bank-robbery/

 

[jcwit]

I'll bet there was very few banks also.

Then to, how many attempted bank robberies.

 

[d2wing]

"War of northern aggression."? Hmmm. Off topic.
But attitudes about killing to vary from area to area and person to person. Some folks relied on law enforcement, some were more do it yourselfers.

 

[Taillebois]

Another factor was that many of the people in the settlements, in the postwar period, had been Union or Confederate soldiers. As a result the hotheads who did try for such as bank robberies or extending the violence beyond acceptable levels tended to get dealt with fairly severely...or shot to pieces.

The movie themes of the stranger coming into town to save the place, are usually a bit off the mark. People who'd been through Antietam, Gettysburg, 7 days, Petersburg and such were not all that easily cowed, and many would have resented intrusions on their life, peace and money.

They may have had a higher tolerance for people acting up, because the end of the war left many of these men footloose, but not for outright chaos.

Plus a certain portion of these men would have by todays standards quite serious PTSD, and as such it was wise not to go provoking violence. For example a GAR man who'd been with Sherman on the march to the sea, or a CSA soldier who'd fought in that wreckage, would bear a certain pyschological price for all that and would it would not have been wise to go about setting off their fuses.

 

[Kaeto]

For those who keep calling it "The war of Northern Aggression" I feel I must remind you. The South fired first!

 

[HoosierQ]

Here's the thing (or two).

The myth of the gunslinger(s) coming into town and cowing the populace (the theme of who knows how many movies) is total bunk. Most of those guys were veterans of the Civil War for crying out loud...both sides. These guys faces the guns at Gettysberg, Chicamauga, Shilo, Petersburg...a couple of thugs with guns were not going to cow these kinds of people. Didn't happen. One has only to look at the "Great Northfield Minnesota Raid". The townspeople shot those thugs to pieces...townspeople, honest folks exercising the RKBA and protecting their hard earned money...no FDIC back then.

The much celebrated formal "gunfight" seen in countless westerns, large and small screen alike...you know the fair fight (what a load of bull) happened, as far as I know (and I think I am right) exactly once way back in the 1870s. Will Bill Hickock and another guy faced off in the street and Hickock shot him at 75 yards in a draw down. That only worked because the other fella probably didn't think a man 75 yards away could hit him...well Hickock could and did. So ended the era of the traditional formal gunfight.

Way, way more Indians were killed by white people than vice versa. Of course not at the Battle of Little Big Horn or 250 years earlier at Scenectady or Deerfield...but over all, way out of balance. Just saying.

The old west was every bit as tough as it was made out to be but I suspect one's liklihood of secumbing to violence was not terribly out of proportion to what it is today (depend on locale and time) while one's liklihood of seccumbing to natural or elemental causes was enormously greater than today.

Yep, the old west was tough.

 

[david58]

Literacy in the 1700's and 1800's can be researched but only estimates obtained. It was very frequent to have folks that could not read that were living on the frontier, or even the lower classes in town - remember that public schools were rare, and that "public" schools were charity schools for those that wanted to go but couldn't afford to pay the local schoolteacher.

As to literacy today - I HAVE been in school classrooms, and kids can fly under the radar and end up functionally illiterate. I work in a manufacturing facility, and MANY of our adult employees (with HS diplomas) have a terrible time reading simple documents and understanding what they say. I work with degreed engineers (not a simple degree to pull off) that simply cannot write an understandable sentence,

As to gun violence, I think part of what we are dealing with is Statisitcs (liars, damn liars, and Statisticians). Today, we have the CDC considering 22 year olds as child victims of gun violence, then, there were few compiled stats and there was no uniform reporting. I do scratch my head as to how we conclude that gun violence in the old west was a myth,,,

 

[Arkansas Paul]

"War of northern aggression."? Hmmm. Off topic.

How was it off topic?
I didn't submit a post on that topic. I was merely pointing out what period of time in history I enjoy studying the most. What I call it is my business. It damn sure wasn't a civil war.

 

[Manco]

I always thought guns were actually pretty rare in the old west. Most people were subsistence farmers or ranchers.

Based on period photos, most people rarely if ever open-carried on their hip like in movies and on TV (at least in town), but guns in general weren't exactly rare, or so I'd imagine. I think it'd be weird for relatively self-sufficient people to live on the frontier without the most effective means of defense from hostile people and animals, especially with law enforcement being extremely limited to nonexistent. If the typical household back then didn't at least have one firearm, then culturally people must have been more anti-gun then than now, which I doubt.

Ammo was prolly too expensive to practice much.

There seem to be extremely few references to the price of metallic cartridges in the Old West, but from what I've gathered over the years, it was about a dollar a box or so for .45 Colt. That's more or less in line with what factory ammo in that caliber costs today, which is more than the cost of common calibers but not completely outrageous. Of course, those who shot more than most back then probably reloaded, as many do today. And as pointed out earlier, cap & ball revolvers were still pretty popular in the Old West, and were probably a lot less expensive to shoot.

And, no, I have no citations to back up my opinions.

I remember reading a lot of things, but I don't have any specific citations, either.

I do scratch my head as to how we conclude that gun violence in the old west was a myth,,,

Gun violence in the Old West certainly wasn't a myth, but I think that many notions people have today about the overall level of gun violence back then are exaggerated. In particular, I highly doubt that the lives of most people constantly revolved around guns and gunfights back then, as some people today might imagine (based on entertainment media). As pointed out earlier, most shootings were considered self-defense shootings, and the same is probably true today. Bandits shooting people and each other in the wilderness has been replaced by gang shootings in inner cities. Perhaps shootings were under-reported in the Old West, hence the lower rates of murder by firearms, but at worst I doubt that the real rates were higher than those of today. In my lay opinion, the idea that gun violence was horrendous in the Old West by today's standards is a myth.