The NRA strikes back!!

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absolut_beethoven

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For those of you who keep on insisting that the NRA is useless, ummm, try doing this on your own and with your own funds too!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071226...scated_guns;_ylt=AjkxzPoYEASyKHH06P0QjO8DW7oF


Gun seized after Katrina? NRA wants you

By MICHAEL KUNZELMAN, Associated Press WriterWed Dec 26, 6:59 PM ET

The National Rifle Association has hired private investigators to find hundreds of people whose firearms were seized by city police in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, according to court papers filed this week.

The NRA is trying to locate gun owners for a federal lawsuit that the lobbying group filed against Mayor Ray Nagin and Police Superintendent Warren Riley over the city's seizure of firearms after the Aug. 29, 2005, hurricane.

In the lawsuit, the NRA and the Second Amendment Foundation claim the city violated gun owners' constitutional right to bear arms and left them "at the mercy of roving gangs, home invaders, and other criminals" after Katrina.

The NRA says the city seized more than 1,000 guns that weren't part of any criminal investigation after the hurricane. Police have said they took only guns that had been stolen or found in abandoned homes.

NRA lawyer Daniel Holliday said investigators have identified about 300 of the gun owners and located about 75 of them. Some of them could be called to testify during a trial, he added.

"Finding these folks has been a nightmare," Holliday said. "That is really the guts of our case — to establish that there was indeed a pattern of the police going out and taking people's guns without any legal reason to do so."

In April 2006, police made about 700 firearms available for owners to claim if they could present a bill of sale or an affidavit with the weapon's serial number.

An attorney for the city and a police department spokesman didn't return a reporter's telephone calls Wednesday.

Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Bellevue, Wash.-based Second Amendment Foundation, said the police department has returned only about 100 of the 1,000 seized guns.

"Obviously, we don't expect the city to find everybody. We only wanted to see a good-faith effort, and that's what the city didn't do," Gottlieb added. "It's a bad example to let them get away with it."

In court papers filed Monday, NRA attorneys say finding the gun owners has been difficult because the storm has scattered so many residents.

New Orleans had an estimated 455,000 residents before Katrina, but less than two-thirds of that number live there now.

The NRA is asking for a delay in the trial, set to begin Feb. 19, saying they need more time to find gun owners. U.S. District Judge Carl Barbier had not yet ruled on the request Wednesday.
 
So the anti NRA people will be along shortly to tell you that the NRA is simply following along behind Gottlieb taking credit for his work.

Any time you see NRA and SAF cooperating, the anti NRA folks will say, there must be something dishonest going on.

Most of the ones that will be saying that are GOA members :)

Can't wait to see another one of these threads play out. Where's that dead horse.......
 
That is awesome! I really hope that they get this all together and the people who were victimised are recognised properly!

This is the kind of stuff that the NRA is all about.
 
Of course I don't mean to imply that the NRA is perfect, let's face it, no person, and definitely no organization is. But, after thinking about it and weighing both the pros and the cons, I put my money where my mouth is and joined.

On a different note I just love this quote :(

Police have said they took only guns that had been stolen or found in abandoned homes.
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Yeah right, tell that to Patricia! Or haven't their policemen - and Mayor Nagin - seen this infamous YouTube video yet???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIc6xXXkFi4
 
My only comment is in a Question.

What took them so long?
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im guessing extensive legal preparation... im pretty sure that they knew this would be huge and wanted to make sure that they would win
 
My only comment is in a Question.

What took them so long? :scrutiny:
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Zedicus, maybe the NRA and SAF were waiting for Gun Owners of America and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership to help?

Would you happen to know what GOA and JPFO did or are doing to help gun owners whose guns were confiscated after Hurricane Katrina in 2005?

The last time I looked it was nothing, more or less, in more than two and a half years. I guess that attacking the NRA must take a lot of time.
 
Why no criminal charges? Conspiracy, racketeering, breaking and entering, armed robbery, menacing, terroristic threats, assault, battery. Why are the police and Nagin and Chief being let off so easy? They should be serving a minimum of 10years each, and dishonour and disgrace for life. They BROKE THE LAW OPENLY and have incurred zero repercussions.
 
TAB
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Join Date: 12-18-07
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so when are they going to get the AWB in CA removed?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

So when are you going to get the AWB ban in CA removed?

(I note you have no indication of your locale in your profile.)
 
Lets just say I live in CA and I am no longer a lifetime member of the NRA. I never saw one cent of the money I sent them.( I know I'm not the only person in CA that feels that way.)
 
Well, I don't want to start an embroglio here, but I would like to know what, exactly, besides "let's just say I'm no longer a Life Member of the NRA," you* are doing about it.

What program(s) are you* instituting or following?

I recognize full well that the NRA is not the end-all and be-all of the struggle, but what other options are there in CA? Educate me.

(We need no wisecracks about "so he must be dead now.")

---------
* English has no plural "you." Please consider this a plural "you."
 
http://www.crpa.org/

http://www.gunownersca.com/


come to mind right off the top of my head.


No, I'm not members of ethier of them, but those two I have seen locally, I've never once seen a high ranking NRA member at a "rally" at the capitol or a city/ county council meeting.


Anyways, back on topic. I think its good that some one is doing something about what happend in NO. I also doubt that the NRA is the only group trying to do something likes this, just they have the membership and the money to make it well known publicly.
 
"just they have the membership and the money to make it well known publicly."

Bingo (for Katrina.)

But like any strategists, they are exerting efforts where they can win first. To many, CA is presently an unwinnable battle, IMHO.

Note I said "presently."

Don't forget there's a "big picture" involved.
 
If you look at your recent history, laws made in CA tend to become nation wide( emmisson control on cars is a biggy, so are other things that are alot less well known) besides CA has the largest population, the most seats in the house and the largest electorail college...yeah we are not really that important at all.
 
I agree there. It's been suggested that CA and CO are "leaders" in the sense of originating laws/policies.

The massive dominance of the urban areas in CA (and to some extent, CO, although it does not have the sledgehammer Electoral votes) have in fact led to this leadership role.

May I offer the suggestion that you change that situation where "I am not currently a member..."?

May I offer the suggestion that you go down to the offices of the candidate of your choice (presumably a pro-2A candidate) and offer to answer phones, run to the printer with print jobs, pick them up and bring them back to the office, collate and staple literature, offer to drive folks to the polls...?

Don't just complain about the NRA. If you don't want to be a member, fine.

But

actually

do

something,

please.

I thank you in advance, on behalf of all CA-ans, although right now I'm concerned about CO, with its generally anti-gun legislature and Governor, and whose Session is about to start.

Back to the Katrina Firearms Recovery efforts, sil vous plait.
 
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May I chime in here?

As a member of the team that went in with Dan Holliday and inventoried the guns on two different days, I think I can offer some insight into all this.

First off, there is no competition that I can see between the SAF and the NRA. At the annual Gun Rights Policy Conference in October, sponsored each year by the Second Amendment Foundation, many of the nationally prominent gun rights organizations were represented. Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America was there, and was a speaker on the agenda. Wayne LaPierre was the featured lunchtime speaker but fell ill with the flu and could not attend.

However, several ranking members of the NRA were there, and LaPierre's personal assistant sat on the podium with Alan Gottlieb, director of the SAF.

As far as I can see, the major gun rights organizations all work together and support one another for their common aim of defending firearms ownership.

As to the investigation and lawsuit, I addressed this in an article in the August, 2007 issue of "America's First Freedom," the NRA magazine--it was entitled "The Shame of New Orleans," and I wrote it with co-author Barbara Baird. Barbara and her husband, retired Air Force LTC Jason Baird, were part of the team of dedicated volunteer experts that went in with Dan and I to conduct this inventory.

Dan Holliday is a dedicated and highly competent young Baton Rouge attorney who has been the NRA and SAF's point man here in Louisiana (the SAF initiated the first lawsuit, and the NRA joined them in filing suit against the city of New Orleans to end the gun confiscations.)

The above mentioned action has taken so long to come about because Holliday has been fighting with New Orleans and NOPD since the first judicial directive was issued by Federal Judge Jay Zainey in late September, 2005.

When presented with overwhelming evidence of gun confiscations by NOPD and law enforcement units from around the country, and ordered to cease taking guns, and begin giving the seized guns back, the city administration:

1. Denied taking any guns.
2. Denied having any guns.
3. Continued confiscating guns they found in the possession of the citizenry.

It took the threat of a federal contempt of court charge against Ray Nagin and Superintendent Warren Riley to agree to allow the NRA/SAF experts into the stored guns kept at NOPD's evidence facility. This agreement finally occurred in February of 2006. Supposedly at this time, with the threat of a contempt citation, the cops stopped seizing guns. It took over a year before we were finally allowed access to the guns.

Every time Holliday would get a date set by the courts to conduct the inventory, I would get our team of experts together--a nightmare of organization, trying to get schedules arranged, vacation days from work scheduled, etc. We would get everyone organized, and the New Orleans City Attorney would throw up some sort of "legal chaff" as Holliday called it, and we would be cancelled. This happened three times, and was very frustrating, as you might well imagine.

This sort of legal wrangling went on for over a year--the federal courts finally had enough and ordered the city to allow us to inventory the guns they had or face fines and consequences. We were allowed in to the storage facility beginning on April 18, 2007. From that and one more visit, we inventoried and photographed over two hundred guns out of about 800 left from the original stash. Some--a few--had actually been returned to people who were able to show up with receipts and/or proof of ownership. What they did not tell you was how many people were turned away that had their guns confiscated illegally, and showed up with proof of ownership only to be told their guns were not being held. It doesn't take a genius I.Q. to figure out what happened to those guns. In very few cases did the confiscating officers identify themselves, or even what agency they worked for. Frequently, they only wore raid outfits, or tactical BDU's, and would not have their names or their agencies displayed. When they took the guns, you had no way of knowing with certainty exactly who was stealing them--and that is what most of this amounted to--armed robbery by cop!

I would point out here that these guns we inventoried were in terrible condition, and were the junk that was turned in. NOPD and supporting units stole thousands of guns from citizens during this period--mostly from September of 2005 until the Spring of 2006 when the federal courts had enough of the city and its insolent ways of ignoring the federal judges.

The guns we found were a small part of what was taken--most of the time, they threw them in the lakes and canals if they were junk, and if they were decent guns, they kept them. Investigators for the NRA/SAF have depositions from New Orleans police officers making these statements.

I could go on and on, but you get the picture, I hope. I hate to be crass and mention the book, but after writing 80,000 words on the subject, I must. You can find out the whole sordid story in the recently released book entitled "The Great New Orleans Gun Grab--Descent Into Anarchy."

I wrote it with co-author Todd Masson, editor of Louisiana, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Mississippi Sportsman magazines. It tells the true stories of a number of citizens who had their firearms taken illegally at gunpoint, and of many who survived the aftermath only because they had a gun. Nagin and the police tried to disarm the citizenry to drive them out of the city--remove their only means of self-defense, and they will have to leave. We spent over a year traveling to New Orleans and interviewing victims of confiscations and threats and harassment by law enforcement while writing this. Many of them stood off looters and thugs, only to have their guns stolen from them by the police.

It was a terrible time for the Constitution--and only by letting people know what happened in New Orleans can we try to insure that such will never happen again.

Here's the link to the AFF article. I hope it helps answer some of these questions. Sorry to go on so long--I still get very worked up over all this, even now, after discussing it and writing about it for nearly two years.

http://www.nrapublications.org/first freedom/ShameNeworleans.asp (There are some pretty dramatic photos here!)

Gordon Hutchinson, author (with Todd Masson), "The Great New Orleans Gun Grab." (Available on Amazon.com or at www.neworleansgungrab.com)

P.S. If you know of anyone who had guns taken illegally by law enforcement during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, Dan Holliday would like very much to speak to them. Let me know through this thread, and I will put them in touch with him.
 
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I do "do something about".... I had a rather nice long post going, but thanks to a connection lasp it went away... oh well, I do write letters to my representatives.

Just becuase I am not a member of a "party"( and beleave me the NRA is a political party) does not make my vote anyless valid.
 
NRA vs doing nothing..

IF you believe in gun rights and the Second Amendment, plus a Constitutional Republican government, please put your actions and money where your mouth is.

Don't do nothing. Do SOMETHING.

It's a presidential year. Pick a conservative you like. Send him some money.

There are several Gun rights organizations. Pick one. Or some.

Your state has a CMP recognized organization like the Texas State Rifle Association. Join it.

Your Senators and Congressmen have staff members and phone lines. Call them. (In fact, call them about Sullivan the BATFE director up for confirmation, right now.) It's FREE.

Don't just sit and gripe.
 
It is bothersome that some people bark at the moves by the NRA. I would love to know how those who find fault with the NRA's actions, take action themselves?

Personally I am not a whole lot involved, but I pay my dues towards a life membership, and vote. I guess that in itself is doing something.


Without the NRA the Boxers', Kennedys' and Feinsteins' would ram gun control as far as they could get it. Who is largely responsible for stopping them?? I guess the NRA, not the apathetic voters.
 
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