The perfect 1911?

[WonderNine]

Ok, one without the grip safety, that goes without saying. But seriously....

I've been looking at the Colt Series 70's for awhile now and I REALLY, REALLY like them. But there's a couple problems. First of all the ejection port is not lowered. I want my .45 to be very, very reliable and no matter what people say about whether or not they've had reliability problems with the higher ejection port, I will always think it is a problem.

I love the short trigger, standard GI grip safety (hate beavertails) and love the standard spur hammer. That's why I'm basically looking at Colt 70's and Springfield.

Second is the absence of magwell bevelling. This is not a BIG thing to me, but it would be nice. I can certainly live without it.

I've been looking at the Springfield Mil-Specs in stainless, but I've heard they hold their extractors and other parts in place with locktite rather than pins. Is this true? Here's a Springfield Mil-Spec in stainless, they all come with the lowered ejection port:

The Springfields have the wide ejection ports and cost quite a bit less than a new Colt Series 70, but I've heard some horror stories about them.

I don't know what to get!

 

[Ian11]

Is it the Series 80 mechanism that's keeping you from considering the NRM M1991A1's? If it doesn't bother you that much I think it would be exactly what you're looking for. The short trigger's a drop in part any decent smith could do for you.

 

[1911Tuner]

Colt/Springfield

Howdy Ian,

Springfield's ejectors are indeed locktited in...which is a minus, at least
for me. I'm old-fashioned. I like the pin. They have also been
plagued recently with a run of bad extractors.

Colt has gone back to machined barstock extractors, and they also have
machined slide stops, which Springfield doesn't. Minor problems, and
easy parts to replace, but a sticking point nonetheless.

As for Series 80's...I like'em, though many don't care for the so-called
"Lawyer parts". They make the pistol worry-free for carrying in
Condition One, and even though the 1911 was designed to be
carried in that mode, the 80's offer a big chunk of Peace of Mind
in that the firing pin can't hit the primer unless the trigger is pulled.

If something goes wrong...such as a cracked or broken sear., the gun
won't fire. No...the thumb safety will not stop the hammer. It MAY
impede its momentum enough to avoid a discharge, but likely not. If the
sear itself breaks, the half-cock can't stop the hammer.

Although these things are extremely rare, it can happen. I've seen it
happen. Luckily, the pistol wasn't nestled next to my backside when the
sear turned loose. At that point, I stopped carrying pre-80's in
Condition One in an open-topped rig, and they went to leather with
a strap between the hammer and frame. Series 80's I will carry in
an open rig with complete confidence that I ain't gonna lose a chunk
of my already too skinny patoot.

So, don't overlook the Series 80 Colts in your search. The prices are
lower than the new issue "70's", and they are very nice pistols.

Just FYI...The reissued Series 70 pistols aren't true Series 70 guns.
Series 70 designated the collet bushing that Colt used for a while to
enhance the accuracy on their production line assembled pistols
without having to do any hand-fitting. There were also never any
regular production Series 70 Commanders, as they all had traditional
solid bushings.

Good luck in your search.

Tuner

 

[Rob96]

The NRM 1991A1's meet all of your needs. They are truly great pistols.

 

[45auto]

For a "shooter", I would buy the Springfield and save the $350-400.
Or, spend it on a much better trigger pull, accuracy, etc- if you want that of course.

As an investment, the Colt is probably better, if it's not shot a lot.
For that money, I would look at their WWII model or their newest model since they are limited productions.

I'd second the recommendation on the standard Colt if you don't mind the firing pin safety. It does have beveled mag well(somewhat) and the ejection port is lowered.

The extractor for Springfield, at least what's listed in their parts section of their website, is described as "forged".

 

[1911Tuner]

Springfiled's Forged Extractor

45auto,

It's my understanding that Springfield has addressed the bad extractors,
and the later ones are much better. The problem was that they lacked
proper heat treatment and wouldn't hold tension, and the hooks were
wearing quickly.

I hope that they have it sorted out.

Take care,
Tuner

 

[Sean Smith]

The new Series 80 Colts meet all your requirements and are great shooters. Or, you can have the Series 70 modified to fit your needs. Figure $45 for the magwell bevel, $50 for the ejection port modification, and a bit more for a re-blue.

http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=13743

 

[Matthew_Q]

I've had three Springfields through my hands in the last couple years, and I have yet to see an extractor that's locktite'd in.

The only problem I ever had with any of them was one had a burr on the spring plug that caused it to bind on the guide rod. Easy solution. Never had a problem after.

I think the SS Milspec would probably be a great gun. Replace a few parts here and there to tune it up, and it should be great. Probably cost a lot less than the Colt, even with some mods!

 

[Old Fuff]

I avoid these problems by assembling my own guns using Caspian Arms parts, but that's another story ....

I suggest that you get the Model 70 that you like and have a "good" pistolsmith lower the ejection port and funnel the magazine well. If you really don't like the grip safety he can pin it out (the pin can be removed without tools if you want the safety's function restored). All of these are relatively simple and inexpensive modifications.

While you are at it he can replace the trigger with whatever you like if the pistol doesn't come that way, and do a basic reliability tune. After shooting the gun a bit to be sure everything is what you want, it can be refinished in what ever way you like.

I too like the "old look," but I'm somewhat elderly myself. The nice thing about a Government Model is that everyone can have it "their way."

 

[1911Tuner]

Extractors and Grip Safeties

Matthew, it's not the extractor that's locktited. It's the ejector on
late issue Springfields.

Fluff...Good to see ya, mah fren. The simple way to deactivate the
grip safety is to put a short length of wire at the top of the MSH as it
slides home. This keeps the grip safety in, and doesn't require drilling through the frame. Quick in...Quick out. For you guitar pickers, a
piece of the "High E" string will work...Anything larger than .012
may be a problem on some guns.

Pickin' and Grinnin'...
Tuner

 

[45auto]

1911 Tuner:

That's a good tip on pinning the grip safety. I've tried it with cut up shock buffs and it worked "most of the time", but did experience some occasional light primer strikes. I think they can move around a bit??

That's good news on the extractors. I mentioned the 'forged' only because that's what I read. I am one of those that doesn't care how and what they are made of, as long as they do what is intended.

I enjoy your posts by the way!

Take care

 

[10-Ring]

I've owned a Colt & a SA Mil Spec. I liked them both, but the Colt just had a better feel to it.

 

[Old Fuff]

1911 Tuner:

Concerning grip safeties ...

Yup, we both use the same method, for the same reason.

Great minds think alike (or some such).

Always good to read you're posts.

 

[1911Tuner]

Extractors doing...

what they're supposed to.

Here's a tip for a "Field Expedient Fix"

If the hook breaks off, just remove the whole extractor. Unless your
chamber is rough, tight, or very dirty, the pistol won't know the difference
until the last round...and if you have round followers in your magazines,
it likely won't stovepipe even then.

The extractor's foremost duty is to keep the case nailed to the breechface at the same location, so that the ejector will smack it at the same spot
and boot the brass out the port in the same direction every time...or nearly
so. Without the extractor, the brass will get out, although the direction
will be all over creation...but the gun will still work. Best chance of this
working will be accomplished with Hardball, or its equivalent. +p
loadings may not work as well.

The extractor's other duty is in clearing the pistol, but you can usually do
that by locking the slide and rapping the butt of the gun on your thigh,
in case the round doesn't just fall out when pointed straight up.

Much of the pistol's design is geared toward getting it to function
on the last round...Feeding AND extraction/ejection.

Cheers!
Tuner

 

[Shmackey]

Very interesting point about functioning w/o an extractor.

To answer the original post, the NRM Colts are so much nicer than the Springers (I own the former and have toyed with the latter) that it's not even a fair comparison. And you're not even talking about the basic NRM Colt; you're talking about the gorgeous Series 70.

It's a no-brainer if you can afford the Colt.

 

[farscott]

If you do get one of the new Series 70 pistols, I highly recommend getting the mag well beveled. It has been so long since I had a pistol without a mag well bevel that I was shocked when I first tried (and failed) to reload the Series 70. The Series 80 mag well bevel is very effective, and, to me, a very overlooked factory-provided feature.

The NRM Series 80 pistols, in many ways, are much better values than the Series 70 pistols. The ejection port is lowered, the mag well is beveled, and the cost is much less. I do not mind the Series 80 safety, and Colt is going to be outfitting all of their 1911's with steel mainspring housings. The pluses for the Series 70 pistol, besides the original 1911 lockwork, are the black-on-black sights, the short steel trigger, and the lack of the "Delta Elite" frame modification.

No matter which Colt you choose the Colt 1911's are really good right now.

 

[1911Tuner]

Almost forgot!

If anybody wants to try their 1911 without an extractor...don't try it
on a Series 80 Colt or Series 2 Kimber. The extractor holds the
firing pin plunger in place, and it will fall out when the slide is back.

It will work if you remove all the Lawyer Parts...

Whew! Hope I got that in before somebody tried it with a Series 80.

Tuner

 

[Sean Smith]

The pluses for the Series 70 pistol, besides the original 1911 lockwork, are the black-on-black sights, the short steel trigger, and the lack of the "Delta Elite" frame modification.

That last one isn't a benefit, though it is more authentic. The modification (milling away part of the frame rail) prevents stress cracks in that area.

 

[farscott]

Sean,

I am torn about the frame modification. On the frames that are used for the more robust rounds (10mm and 9x23), I agree the frame modification is needed. On the .45 ACP, I am not convinced of the benefits.

 

[WonderNine]

I didn't know that a Series 70 could fire if the sear broke. Now you got me wondering about my pre MKII Browning Hi-Power which I always have cocked and locked

Maybe the Series 80 is the way to go for me. I could probably replace the ugly long aluminum trigger with a short one. I heard before though that the safety on the Series 80 is a weak point and prone to failure, is this true?

 

[HankB]

The Springfields have the wide ejection ports and cost quite a bit less than a new Colt Series 70, but I've heard some horror stories about them.

On the flip side of the coin, I had a Colt Series 70 Government Model .45 . . . and a terrible Jammamatic it was, too.

What soured me most was Colt's warranty NON service - they had a couple of chances, kept the gun for quite a while each time, and couldn't or wouldn't fix it. Finally sold it to a guy who wanted a base gun for some 'smith to work on for IPSC.

Colt's inability - or unwillingness - to fix their POS made that the last - and I do mean LAST - Colt I'll own. (Not to mention their political decision to put a steel block by the trigger and use non-standard pins in their AR15's . . . but that's a whole 'nother rant)

 

[WonderNine]

So far what I've discerned is that everyone hates everything. Maybe I shouldn't buy a 1911 .

 

[1911Tuner]

Colt

Wondernine,

I have an early 1911A1 that has had nearly 40,000 rounds through it
without any failure of the Series 80 parts. My feeling is that if they fail,
there was something out of whack to start with.

Hank, I just had an experience with Colt's Warranty/Service department
about a year ago. My neighbor replaced the recoil spring inan SXE
Commander and forgot to check for coil bind. To make a long story short,
the slide broke at the frong in the bushing lug's recess. We sent the
bare slide and barrel back to Colt. 10 days later, a complete slide and
a new barrel and bushing arrived,along with a letter of apology for
the inconvenience., even though they knew about the spring. if you have a problem with a Colt, Cindy...is the lady that you want to talk to.

I bought the pistol from him a month later, and it has been 100%
Your problems were probably simple in origin, and likely would have been
a simple fix with a little minor tweaking here and there. If you run into any
more functional problems with a 1911, don't hesitate to look me up.
I'll work with you via E-mail or phone to get it straightened out.

Cheers!
Tuner

 

[Tamara]

So far what I've discerned is that everyone hates everything.

Everybody hates everything that they don't love.

Buy what you love.

Problem solved.

 

[HankB]

1911 Tuner wrote:

Your problems were probably simple in origin, and likely would have been a simple fix with a little minor tweaking here and there.

Maybe it would've been a simple fix, but Colt's sure couldn't find it in repeated tries! Too bad you weren't around to help when I had the old Jammamatic - I sure would've welcomed your advice. But that pistol is long gone . . .

BTW, I have a Colt National Match - one of the last of the pre-Series '70 pistols - that is very nice. It came with a one-hole test target and a crisp trigger just under 4 lbs right from the factory - they don't come like that any more, and I sure haven't messed with it! And I have a Les Baer .45 which has yet to jam . . . I like the 1911 design, but after being burned by Colt's on their warranty non-service, well, there are other brands to choose from. (Maybe that's why Colt has been flirting with bankruptcy for so long.)