The Responsibility Accompanying Open Carry

Status
Not open for further replies.

Crusader103

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
397
Location
KLOR
This is a response I recently sent to a client attorney to give to his own client, and is posted in my latest newsletter. I thought it appropriate to post here for discussion, though I understand it is a bit lengthy.

You may have noticed that the issue of open carry has recently been in the spotlight. While some locales expressly prohibit the carrying of firearms in plain view of the public, others have protections that allow law abiding citizens to exercise such rights. Still others either remain silent or interpret current laws in an ambiguous fashion, leaving those who desire to carry a firearm in open view wondering what the implications may be. Some third parties that otherwise would not enter such a debate, such as the Starbucks chain of coffee shops, have been brought into the issue either by proponents of open carry who choose to gather in such venues or opponents who choose to boycott corporations that follow the letter of the law in allowing open carry.

While the tactical merits of choosing to carry a firearm openly vs. concealed is open for debate, the issue at hand is what implications doing so may bring to the open carrier. Even in the locales where open carry is expressly allowed by law, it cannot be denied that choosing to do so may bring attention to the open carrier. The attention may range simply from an inquisitive view of an indifferent citizen to the overreaction of arriving law enforcement officers having received a frantic call from an unduly alarmed citizen.

Assuming that you live in an area allowing such carry, I encourage you to use the utmost of restraint and courtesy in your interactions with all citizens and law officers. Should you be confronted by a citizen who confronts you in a less than friendly manner you would be wise to simply and calmly express the legality of open carry in one or two short sentences and take the earliest opportunity to excuse yourself from him or her. A statement such as, “Sir, I appreciate your concern but I can assure you that the law allows for a law abiding citizen such as myself to exercise the right to carry a firearm. You have nothing to fear from me.” Do not say anything that may reflect negatively upon you should your actions be called into question. At the same time, if the person is not hostile to your actions but only showing their inquisitiveness, I can see no reason why you should not take the time to enter into a meaningful and informative conversation with them.

If you carry openly long enough you are probably going to encounter a police officer who has either seen you while on patrol or been called to respond to a citizens report. Please keep in mind, if called by a citizen a police officer is really under obligation to speak to you. You should not take it as an affront to your rights when approached. While you may not be immediately informed of whether they had received a call or not, you would do well to interact politely with any officer and follow their directions explicitly. This is true even if they are approaching you of their own accord and not a citizen complaint. Based upon the attitude of the officer by whom you are approached, this may or may not be a good time to inform them of the law in your locale if it appears that they are unaware. While working patrol, I was keenly aware that I did not know all of the laws and was open to conversation with citizens who either led me to something I did not know or who were willing to listen to something I did know. However, I was never open to rudeness, accusations, or argumentative statements. While your job as a citizen is not to bend to every whim of an officer, I would assert to you that the public sidewalk is not the place to debate the merits of their stopping you. If, after the contact, you feel that you were affronted in some manner or your rights violated, don’t hesitate to follow-up with a call to the officer’s supervisor or an internal affairs unit. I cannot stress to you strongly enough though that taking up the issue with the individual officer during the contact is not likely to turn out well for you.

Sometimes when we choose to exercise our rights we must also accept the responsibility that comes with a choice that may appear controversial in the eyes of another. That may very well mean being prepared to defend yourself in court from an unjust accusation. I understand that it is not fair to have to do so but you must realize that the cost of exercising what is viewed by some as a controversial right is not always free. This is a good time to state that while I have carried a firearm openly in the public from time to time, such as when returning home from an IDPA match and running into a station to pay for gas instead of taking my weapon off, I generally make the decision to carry concealed. That is a personal decision based upon my assessment of tactics and therefore not a topic of discussion in legalities. I recognize that while carrying openly I subject myself to scrutiny that might not otherwise have come. In acknowledgment of this I have also taken note of the exact laws of my locale and take extra precautions to appear polite, unimposing, and non-confrontational while readying myself with an appropriate response to law enforcement and citizens alike. Should you make the choice to open carry where permitted by law, I would encourage you to do the same.

Joshua Scott has over 10 years of experience as a police officer, federal agent, military officer, firearms instructor, and court recognized use of force expert. He may be reached at [email protected] or through his website at http://www.OsageCombatives.com
 
Thank you for what seems like a very common sense approach to OC, Please remember that you will always encounter the uniformed, no matter where you are, or what you are doing, civil discourse is much better than an indignant stand.
 
If, after the contact, you feel that you were affronted in some manner or your rights violated, don’t hesitate to follow-up with a call to the officer’s supervisor or an internal affairs unit.

If one expects anything like this, and has political motivation for OC, I'd suggest being prepared to file suit, beforehand. I.e. know exactly what "your rights" are, and what sort of compensation that you might win (including zero, which of course impacts your choices as well). I would not confront an individual officer at all, if my rights were being violated. Collecting evidence to use against the officer and the department should be your only goal.

He laughs best who laughs last, and he who laughs last is he who changes things. See Miranda.

Internal Affairs is for situations where the department is clean, but an individual officer has gone rogue. Where there is a concerted effort by a police department to do what they want, regardless of the law, that's not an Internal Affairs issue.

You have to decide what you think of your community, and you have to figure that out BEFORE something happens, realistically, with the most rational judgment you can.

Here where I live, I've met a good number of cops, retired cops, and even instructors from the Academy. Some, I've even met on the side of the road, after we were pulled over. Every experience has been positive. I have a fair idea where the local chief is coming from on OC and enforcing the law as written. These are GREAT people, and from every indication I have, this city has a GREAT department with wonderful leadership. If anything inappropriate happened here, I'd contact the department, because of what I believe about the department and its leadership.

I've lived elsewhere, and I would approach things VERY differently there.

Bear in mind, Boise may be the capital, the only urban center and the largest city in the region, but we also have radio ads for gun shops. One has a catchy song, even.

Situational awareness goes pretty deep. Know what to expect.:)
 
Last edited:
If you carry openly long enough you are probably going to encounter a police officer who has either seen you while on patrol or been called to respond to a citizens report. Please keep in mind, if called by a citizen a police officer is really under obligation to speak to you.

OK.... I just reread that and misunderstand. Let me ask, WHY is the officer "really under obligation to speak to you?" If I called 911 and reported that I was following a certain vehicle, and that vehicle was observing all laws and doing everything right - would an officer be under obligation to speak to the subject? Why does an officer have an obligation to stop a citizen whom they see engaging in nothing indicative of criminal behavior? Have you ever heard of RAS?

Someone calls and reports a man with a gun:
Where is the gun?
In a holster on his belt.
What is he doing?
Shopping, walking down the street, eating... whatever.
Is he doing anything with the gun?
No, but it's right there on his belt...

Hmmm..... nothing reported as evidence of a crime committed or about to be committed, is there? (In states where open carry is legal, such as Washington).

You may certainly feel an obligation to speak to me, however, I certainly feel no obligation to have a discussion with you and I really don't care if a 911 call initiated your visit or not.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, the PD may be obligated to investigate, but that may or may not involve speaking with you, or even coming to the location. The investigation starts with asking the caller questions about what he/she observed, unless the department really likes sending officers around on wild goose chases all day.:) That would be rare...
 
....as for the officer being obligated to speak with you. Allow me to expand and explain why the officer will almost certainly do so.

For those that have pointed it out, you are correct in that the law generally does not specifically state that an officer must speak to the subject concerned. However, under the rule of law and departmental policy an officer must investigate all complaints in which he is dispatched. Failure to determine whether or not a crime has been committed can be detrimental to an officer's career, and to the public at large. I am not just speaking of an open carrier call. You must think in terms greater than just a firearm call. Honestly, gun call or not, most times an officer responds to a call no arrest, nor report, is taken. The fact of the matter though is that the officer must satisfy himself that no crime has taken place because the department and the public demand that he do so.

The easiest and most direct course of action in reaching that end is to speak to each involved party. Just because an officer approaches you to speak does not mean that he is considering you a suspect. However, he would be remiss if he did not at least make an attempt to sort things out and justify his telling you to have a good day and be on his way. It is your choice at to how you respond to his approach. I suggest that it be in a cordial manner whether or not you have done wrong.

Please understand, while you know that no crime has occurred the officer does not. Yes, the 911 call taker can ask questions like, "Is it just on his belt," "Is he doing anything suspicious," etc, but here's the deal. The call taker is not an investigator and would be failing in their duties if they did not dispatch calls as they are received. True, not all calls are dispatched, but the word "gun" is one of those buzz words that dictates a call taker pass the information on to patrol. It is not their choice no matter how bogus they think it is. By the time the officer gets the call it has likely gone from the complainant, to the call taker, to the dispatcher, and then either dispatched over the radio or sent electronically to his computer. The officer rarely, if ever, has enough information to determine that you were merely sitting in the restaurant enjoying your cup of coffee.

It is for that reason that the officer is obligated to investigate. Again, the most likely course for him to satisfy the requirements of his job is to talk to you. In that sense, while the law may not specifically state he must, hopefully you can understand why officers will invariably feel obligated to speak to you. How you respond to that is up to you.
 
Something else to note: Idaho's state Constitution specifically guarantees the right of law-abiding citizens to carry a weapon without a license, tax, or other restriction, provided that the weapon is carried openly (Article I Section 11).

An officer stopping to inquire about my openly-carried firearm in a holster, without any report of a crime, and without observing a crime or any probable cause to believe a crime will be or has been committed, is little different, legally speaking, from an officer stopping me to ask whether I'm a Mormon, or an atheist, or an officer investigating me for political blogging.

Not every state is like this, obviously.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top