The right round for THIS situation.....

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loadingzone

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A rare case, but based on an incident I read about:

Assume you are in physical contact with a drugged up assailant armed with a knife. You manage to pull your 9mm (in my case, it would be a Taurus PT111 Titanium). You are only going to get one shot, and the way you're both positioned, its going to be to the side of his head.

The skull is hard but the brain is not. I'm concerned the round wouldn't expand enough going through the brain to cause critical damage before exiting and I could still get knifed before he dies.

What would be the best factory made 9mm cartridge which would guarantee a kill? I've looked at the Winchester SXT 147gr, The Federal Hydra-Shock JHP 135gr, and the Hornady Blue Dot. Any comments or other suggestions? Is 9mm even enough? If not, how much bigger? .40 or up to 44 Magnum?

By the way, the civilian was knifed before the assailant died.
 
considering the scenerio you put forward; caliber, bullet design, and just about everything else but shot placement is irrelevant.

If you can place a single shot to the base of the skull, you can turn someone off like a light switch.

The probablilty of doing that however, is small. If you are armed with a handgun and you have to resort to grappeling, you have already nulified any advantage you had over an edged weapon.

This should probably be in S&T.
 
I seriously wouldn't worry about my chosen round not doing it's job granted the placement is right (unless we're talking .22LR, .25acp, et al).

I have no reason to think any .355 caliber projectile traveling through the brain at 900+ FPS (bringing skull fragments along with it) would fail to stop an aggressor. Assuming the bullet isn't deflected by the skull and actually penetrates, I'd imagine any 9mm would do the job just fine, including your subsonic 147gr FMJs.

If this is something you're fretting over, trust me... there's better stuff to fret over.
 
Well, you didn't ask for a critique of the method -- but pulling your gun when you're already in physical contact with a knife-wielding bad guy is probably the wrong move. That's where a range of options enabled by empty hand training really becomes important....

But back to the question at hand: I'd say any kind of expanding round (JHP, EFMJ) will work - but shot placement is key. If you try to shoot through the thickest part of his skull, you'll probably be disappointed. Base of the skull (as suggested - works for the Mafia with .22LR) or the occular cavity would be best.

And don't be surprised when the bad guy keeps fighting through the shot -- there's probably going to be a significant period of time before the shot finishes him off. So you still have that knife to deal with...

Jim
 
A good hollow point will expand in brain tissue the same as if you shot a gallon milk jug full of water...the skull plates can even separate as the head expands. With 9mm, bullet will likely not even exit the other side of the head. I doubt seriously you would get stabbed unless the knife "falls" on you. There had to be special circumstances in your example, like maybe an angle or glancing shot that resulted in low penetration.
 
I doubt seriously you would get stabbed unless the knife "falls" on you. There had to be special circumstances in your example, like maybe an angle or glancing shot that resulted in low penetration.
Click to expand...

Assume you are in physical contact with a drugged up assailant armed with a knife.
Click to expand...

blkbrd, I've got to disagree with you here. At contact range it is inevitable that you will get cut/stabbed. Trained, untrained doesn't matter. Original case was lucky to be able to draw let alone stop his attacker.
 
Assume you will be grappling and miss the skull completely. Use something that expands reliably, just as you would in most other situations.
 
Side shot aim for the mid ear, any reasonable variation will still put the bullet into the brain causing instant CNS disruption and incapacitation regardless of bullet choice be it hardball to jhp. Front shot aim mid nose.
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Okay, I had to clean up what little mess there was after a point blank side head shot with 9mm SXT from a Beretta 92. That was what I based my comments on. Being in disbelief, I tested the rounds later in water, gelatin, beef, wood, sand, etc. I will always keep a mag of SXT for self defense until something more effective comes along...haven't seen it yet. Hydra-Shoks react very similar and happen to be my favorite .380 round.
 
I was always taught that the first rule of a knife fight is go in knowing you are going to get cut. The second rule is to get cut where it will do the least damage.

In that situation, trap the arm with your free hand and put the shot where it counts.

Later,
Chrome...
 
Thanks!

Well that certainly answers that! Thanks, everyone and the top poster, you're probabably right on the S&T.

Thanks again.
 
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