The SECOND Revolution...

[SteyrAUG]

An older post of mine from another forum but new here.



OK, I know the general consensus among patriotic, freedom loving, constitutional gun owners is that we stand ready to feed the gun grabbers and other "domestic" enemies to the hogs.

Gun boards (especially those with a "militia" edge)are ripe with Phase ONE (Expose the Bildeburgs, etc.) plans of the coming revolution that will wipe out socialism and restore consitutional representation to "the people."

The logic being once the "citizenry" is made aware of the diabolical plot and awakened we will "throw the bums out" and restore a truly representative government in Phase TWO. After all we have at least 750 men with SKSs waiting for the "marching orders." And once these fine Americans fire the "first shot heard round the county" everyone will jump on the bandwagon and join the winnning team.

Just a couple problems.

1. The populace has already been enlightened to the problem and they just don't give a damn. Seriously, Bill Clinton openly wiped his *** with the Consitution on a regular basis and the average Oprah viewer thinks he's some kind of hero. Hillary commited felony (and probably capital) crimes and was duly elected Senator. I firmly believe you could publish photos of the Clintons having 3 way sex with Janet Reno while negotiating the sale of NORAD systems to China while Osama Bin Laden films the decadence and 54% of the country would still vote for them. Just remember Marion Barry got RE ELECTED if you were about to say it would NEVER Happen.

2. The average "gun owner" doesn't even know what is legal anymore or what laws have been passed until AFTER he has been arrested for an illegally configured firearm. He ain't exactly in touch with anything let alone waiting for "marching orders." At best the MOST any gun owner will do is occassionaly spend $25.00 on a NRA membership every couple of years to help fight the good fight. But don't ask him to be a annual member every year or give anything extra. After all $25.00 is a lot of money. You can get a gun "transfered" for $25.00.

3. As soon as the 37 members of the various militias "open fire" when the timing is right, they will be immediately portrayed as extremist fringe groups and tied to white supremecists, doomsday cults, Mormons, stanists and NAMBLA. NAMBLA will sue for defamation and win. When these patriots are rounded up and sentenced to life for "crimes against the Consitution" the nation will breath a collective sigh of relief. After all these 37 rednecks with pump action shotguns are certainly the GREATEST threat to national security that has ever been faced.

4. Mr. average gun owner will watch it all on TV from the comforts of his lazy boy in his air conditioned living room on a SONY Big Screen. He will think to himself that gun owners like that give him a bad name. He will feel safe that he owns a pump action shotgun in case he ever needs to defend himself from such terrorists. He has no idea that Congress is currently in a closed door session drafting legislation to outlaw the NEW weapon of choice for terrorists, the Pump Action Assault Shotgun.

*Editted for language and consumption at the High Road.

 

[80fl]

Unfortunately Mr. Aug, I'm afraid you're correct.

The complacency in this country is overwhelming, complacency that starts at the bottom and goes to the top.

If Joe average, living on the outskirts of Cincinnati, wants to put up a garage and is turned down by the local pullet bureau, he shrugs his shoulders and says "oh well".

If Harry the Hunter, living in San Diego, turns on his local new wank and hears that the Masters of State have just outlawed "assault weapons", he shrugs his shoulders and says;
"Whatever, I only like my hunting rifles anyway".

When Phil the old car guy, living in upstate NY is told by the local planning and zoning Nazis that he has to put up a fence to screen his cars from the road, he dutifully marches to Home Depot and orders the material.

When over 50% of the American people hear that the Chief Criminal of the United States has just committed perjury, he sluffs it off saying: "they never should have gotten involved in his personal affairs".


The sheep are being conditioned to not really pay attention to the road this ol' cars going down. As long as the car has leather and air conditioning, they really couldn't care less about the destination.

3. As soon as the 37 members of the various militias "open fire" when the timing is right, they will be immediately portrayed as extremist fringe groups

You have most definitely nailed it.
:banghead:

 

[Pward]

Mormons,????

 

[MessedUpMike]

Mormons?

I'm not exactly a thinskinned type person but how the hell do Mormons get lumped in with skinheads, white supremists, extremists, and NAMBLA? Not only does that part of your arguement not make any sense but such irresponsible and stupid allegations simply push any and all middle of the road people to the other side. It would be wise to remember that much like the second amendment the first amendment also require some form of responsibilty when enjoying your rights.

 

[G-Raptor]

Ok, here goes.

IMO, you've underestimated the committed. History clearly shows that "the masses" has never actively participated in anything. They like being lead around by the nose, and they don't care much who is doing the leading.

I can't say this is completely accurate, but as I understand it, during the first revolution only a third of the population supported the revolution, another third supported the British, and the rest didn't care who won. Of the third who favored revolution, only about 10% was actively involved. So in the end, it was a mere 3% of the people who made the different.

If a second revolution should occur, it will be the same. Most people will simple try to stay out of the line of fire and not draw attention to themselves. But there will be a commited few who will make the difference.

What can a few people do? More than most of us care to think about. Two idiots with one rifle and an old car pretty much shut down the DC area for a couple of weeks. The public reaction might have been a lot different if those guys had shown more descretion in their target selection.

On the other end, 19 guys destroyed several major buildings in our financial center and pretty much brought the entire country to a halt for a couple of days. As a result they are now strip searching grannies and checking the tiny sneakers of toddlers at the airports. Even the sheep are starting to understand that this is more a sign of government ineffectiveness and control than "enhanced security".

People don't revolt when they feel "inconvenienced". They revolt when they feel threatened. Currently, Americans, even the committed few, don't feel threatened to that degree - at least not by the government. They they still see "the political process" as a way out. When they no longer see that as an option, the view will change. Of course, there are already some out on the edge who are itching to start a fight, but it's not a fight that many would care to join in.

The problem isn't winning the fight, its identifying and supporting the leadership that reorganize things when the fight is over. During the first revolution, the leaders were out in front. They put their lives and their fortunes on the line just by signing the declaration. Currently, there are very few in the national leadership who can garner such support.

It would be foolish to underestimate what a small group of committed people can accomplish, I'm sure the government doesn't.

 

[SteyrAUG]

Mormons,????

When I wrote that I was giving Scientologist the week off.

 

[oldfart]

Recently, I had the opportunity to speak with a man who had, at one time, been fairly active in politics in the state of Wisconsin. He pointed out that the entire Republican party of the state was esentially run by less than 300 people. They were the leaders and dedicated followers who actually did the work.
Any 'next revolution' would operate in much the same way, except the leaders would have to live underground or risk arrest_and imprisonment at the best and death as the more probable end. The founders had the advantage of 6000 miles of water between them and their King. Our erstwhile leaders wouldn't have that cushion and would be in constant danger.
On top of all that, our own footsoldiers are hardly prepared for what would be neccesary. The general populace has been indoctrinated to inform the authorities whenever they see anything suspicious. That might mean that any who did inform on a 'patriot' would have to be sanctioned. How many of us is prepared to coldly shoot our neighbors? Not many, I would think, but such measures might be required to maintain security.
Whether it is revolution, civil war or insurrection, any war within a society is particularly brutal and the hard feelings will continue long after the bullets stop_flying. Even now, after nearly 140 years, there are those who harbor strong feelings regarding our own civil war. I doubt things would get better after a next one.
I have often said that a war will come to us sooner or later. All governments and all civilizations fall eventually and the more entrenched the government or civilization, the harder the fall. Ours is not immune and when it does go, it will make the French Revolution look like a garden party.

 

[Travis McGee]

You really need to check out the novel I am almost finished and getting ready to print, it hits most of the subject that you raise.

A power mad JBT senior official engineers a super Columbine, an "assault rifle" massacre in a a packed football stadium. Only about fifty are hit by bulets, but over a thousand die in the panic stampede to escape, tumbling from an upper deck. The blamed sniper is a patsy, he's called a right wing militia gun fanatic, and he is killed in his sniper's lair by a responding police SWAT sniper in a helicopter, as planned.

A week later all semi auto rifles are banned by an act of congress, and the low level dirty war begins, as many gun owners refuse to believe the stadium massacre was not a set up, and refuse to turn in their semi auto rifles.

You can read the first half of the novel here: http://matthewbracken.web.aplus.net/

 

[Bob Locke]

The 2nd (real American) Revolution already occurred. Just so happened that the bad guys (the North) won.

And I never give up hope, because I am well aware of what a relative handful of really committed individuals have been able to bring about over the course of history.

 

[Oleg Volk]

We have an easier task than a full-fledged revolution. We arent trying to gain control but rather to deny control over us to others. Non-cooperation would go a long way, coupled with basic arms to protect the non-cooperative folks from coersion. Rifles aren't the solution, though they protect the solutions in the interum period.

However, for those inclined to feel sorry for themselves, here's something more melodramatic:

Five stalward patriots I called when fight got close to hand
As one they've answered my call and this is what they said

I'd love to help you, old chap, said one of them to me
But I can't go into battle: too busy raising kids

Another listened to the rain, oiled his gun and sighed
We better wait before we start, my fancy rifle might rust

A dandy told me to relax, it wasn't time for war
We'd know the day to blaze away when Feds at the door

Black rifles suck, another said, a pro at games of clays
My double's safe because it's tame, and that is all I care

We cannot win, somebody cried, the effort's all in vain
And if we go against the Man we'll all be shortly dead

Don't gloat poxy JBTs, and don't you feel safe
I may be alone in my private war but one is all it takes

One with a rifle where you'd least expect, your own unpaid Charon
By the time you hear the bullet's crack, you'll be already gone

The prize is too dear to let you have
We will fight never minding the cost

For the freedom for us, generations to come
For the right to be left alone

 

[bad_dad_brad]

My THR brothers and sisters, do you know what the term "collective oligarchy" describes? It means government by the few. That is what America, indeed, the western world, is migrating to. It sucks, but you can't do a thing about it.

Unlike O'Brien's Oceania oligarchy in the George Orwell's masterpiece "1984", our rulers have determined the best way to control the populace is not to make them suffer, but instead, make them comfortable and complacent. We live in a benign velvet prison.

If you have a full belly, are warm, and think you are safe, why would you revolt?

All revolutions have their roots in suffering and struggle. There is no such thing as an intellectual revolution.

The only free man is one who is ignored by the system. So lay low.

 

[MountainPeak]

SteyrAug, I thought your post was very thought provoking. I had not read it before. As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with many of your conclusions as to reactions by the "people". I have been very concerned as I watch civil liberties disappear after 9/11. Homeland Security, Patriot Act, Campaign Finance Reform etc. were to quickly enacted and, in my opinion, not well thought out. Good post! I have to add my two cents on the mormon comment though. I'm not one, but think it would be hard to lump them in with the rest of your examples. It just didn't fit your well thought out post.

 

[Gordon]

Oleg: I copied your poem 50 times and will post it for my shooting buddies, of course that's what they heard me say for 10 years. I do believe Steyraug was closer to the truth than all the JBS guys I heard, apathy is always the enemies best weapon. Regarding Mormons: American govt. has historically viewed them as crazy and reluctantly leaves them alone if they dont practice polygamy.I think this was used as a metaphor for a scapegoat cult to blame for social unrest no slur intended, I hope!

 

[SteyrAUG]

MountainPeak, and others.

Since I am new here you should know that I am prone to sarcasm and satire. My poke at Mormons was a combination of both. While I personally find most of the Mormon religion absurd (Golden plates and whatnot), those who subscribe to that faith are usually very good people.

In truth I never met a Mormon who wasn't anything less than a nice guy. If you are nicer than a Mormon you are probably on Prozac.

My personal view on Mormonism is similar to that of all religions. Protected by the First Amendment. Since I have on more than one occassion taken the "oath" I will always defend the right of a person to believe whatever religion they may choose whether it be Christianity, Mormonism, Scientology, Islam or the Tooth Fairy.

This however is no guarantee that I will subscribe to those beliefs or even respect them. And that is my right.

 

[MountainPeak]

SteyrAug, I wasn't questioning your right to write or post anything! I just felt it didn't fit what I thought was a great piece of writing by you! Peace.

 

[SteyrAUG]

No need to worry. I was just explaining myself. No offence taken or offered.

 

[2nd Amendment]

I've always maintained that another revolution is a definite future occurrence. To think that any nation can exist indefinitely, let alone indefinitely without the occasional violent upheaval, is absurd. It's just a question of when and why.

That being said I think it's likely to be a rather sad thing. I just don't think the numbers exist at this point to get the job done, in any fashion. Bigger government and more control is the road we are on. An eventual global government is the future. It's just the natural evolution of government, and technology will allow it to happen and happen effectively.

I'm almost regretting raising my children to be independent thinkers reasonably free of TV and the latest fads. While I'll probably never live to see the day I wonder how they will fit in to the micro-managing of the future. Maybe I'm simply creating eternally unhappy and dissatisfied adults...Better for them to have spent their lives asleep?

 

[SteyrAUG]

Maybe I'm simply creating eternally unhappy and dissatisfied adults...Better for them to have spent their lives asleep?

Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.

More wisdom from the master:

http://www.dropbears.com/b/broughsbooks/qtroosevelt.htm

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Hello and BTT!

Thanks all the reading, I can imagine this topic and discussion scares the devil out of many members. I've met a good many people who are afraid to surf the net much less post on gun boards.
Big Brother is always watching and at the same time busy indoctunating your own children in the schools, in print and in all the media and movies the new religion of Consumerism/Communism
I fully expect a new reality TV series "Narc Yer Neighbor" in the not distant future.
The plot is like Candid Camera, the cameras arrive along with a team of JBT to the unsuspecting homeowner and is rewarded instantly with huge sums of cash for reporting one of her neighbors of being somehow suspicous...."Well Doug" she says, "that guy/gal three doors down sometimes wears CAMO and shoots those black guns alot"
What's your library like? Any thing Big Brother might "spin" into terrorist literature? Shot Gun News was mentioned as a radical publication back in the Waco Trials..

 

[beemerb]

A few can start it and goverment overreaction can fuel it.When the Germans invaded Russia in WW 2 many Russians sided with the Germans due to the harsh treatment by there own goverment.The action of a few dedicated communists cause a over reaction by the Germans.After a number of Russian villages where wiped out the reaction of the Russian peasents created havoc behind German lines.More German solders where used to guard rear areas then where on the front.
I think the same thing could happen here.A couple of Wacos could fuel a lot of public response and the fence stratlers would join the fight. Allso bringing in UN troops would have the same effect.
Bob

 

[G-Raptor]

I beg to differ with Bob on the civil war.

It wasn't a revolution, it was a war between groups of allied nations. Southerners did not rebel against "their" government, they separated themselves from the northern states and fought a war against "foreigners". Southern soldiers and officials didn't much worry about being shot by other southerners.

That brings me to another point about "the revolution". When people actually want to talk about this subject, there always seems to be an underlying assumption of "full military compliance". Why should anybody believe that 2 million American soldiers and 600,000 American cops are going to swear an oath to the Constitution, salute the flag, then start an all out assault on American citizens? It's easier to believe that many of them will simply switch sides.

It's pretty hard for soldiers to desert when they're stuck in a steamy hellhole 10,000 miles from anywhere. But when some kid from Chicago is patrolling the streets of Indianapolis and the locals are shooting at him, it's pretty easy to dump his uniform in a gas station bathroom and catch a ride home.

 

[Cosmoline]

Revolution---INTO WHAT?

This is question I always ask when talk about "revolution" arises. I dislike things like the high-cap ban and the "assault weapons" ban. Frankly, I dislike the federales for the most part. But when you start looking around, there really isn't any coherent revolutionary movement at all in this country. There are divergent clusters of people angry about one thing or another. From what I've seen of the hardcore so-called "militia" groups, the "freemen," and the "common law courts" and similar organizations that have come and gone, the far right offers nothing more than comic relief.

So what's the alternative to our current system? Talk of "Restoring the Constitution" is all well and good, but your idea of a restored Constitution and my idea of a restored Constitution may be VERY different.

 

[jar]

IMHO, we will see the dissolution of the US within my lifetime, in fact, most likely within the nest 20 years. And, I expect it to be non-violent and generally supported.

I expect that we will see a Pacifica that includes most of the west coast, Alask, Hiwaii and parts of South and Central America. It will be Chinese in still, culture and orientation.

I expect to see a Hispania that will include most of the Gulf States, Texas north to around Austin, Arizona, New Mexico and Southern California north to near LA.

The East Coast and swinging west to past Chicago will most liklely still be called the US but it will not resemble anything like the US today. It will be small enclaves of the very rich, a slightly large body of well paid knowledge workers and vast masses of the very poor. In many ways it will resemble a third world country more than the Jeffersonian Ideal.

In mid America there will be two competing powers, one most likely centered around Idaho, the other centered around Austin TX. These two power centers will be in a state of virtual war constantly as they vie for domination of the other.

What will bring this about?

IMHO it will be driven by two main and one secondary forces.

The first is overpopulation in Asia and Central America. They will both have to increase (I say increase because IMHO it is already happening) State Sponsored exportation of their surplus population. I sincerely belive that Mexico and China have already held talks about their respective spheres of influence. These immigrants will be unlike the waves of immigration a hundred years ago. These people will still hold the POV of their native land as opposed to those fleeing Europe a century ago.

The second major factor driving this cultural split will be Big Business. Today's multinational companies do not hold a primary Allegiance to the US. Witness NAFTA and Chrysler as examples. Today's Big Business sees Nation States only as a Hindrance, something that passes laws that make business less profitable. For BUSINESS, getting rid of Nation States and the environmental, labor and safety laws that go with Nation States just makes good sense.

The minor driver for all of this will be the apathy of the public that will choose seperation as the lessor of evils.

 

[Mad Man]

Enemy Within: A Novel of the Nex Civil War

Does anyone know the publishing status of Enemy Within: A Novel of the Next Civil War?

I posted about the book on another thread, but it's also relevant here.

Unfortunately, publication of this was cancelled after I placed my order. Weinberger (former Secy. of Defense for President Reagan) and Schweizer wrote The Next War a few years before this.


Enemy within: A Novel of the Next Civil War

Caspar Weinberger Peter Schweizer

bn.com Price: $27.95
Available: Ships 1-2 weeks
Format: Hardcover, 380pp.
ISBN: 0895262738
Publisher: Regnery Publishing, Inc., An Eagle Publishing Co.
Pub. Date: November 1999
bn.com sales rank: 586,233


From The Publisher
For more than a century, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, has been the place where the United States prepares its most promising commanders to prepare for the next crisis. Increasingly, they anticipate a domestic role for the military. This year military leaders conducted a hypothetical wargame called Prairie Warrior. The scenario: a rebellion in the continental United States. From this true beginning, best-selling authors Caspar Weinberger and Peter Schweizer spin off the political thriller of the year.

State leaders in Idaho, Montana, Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas have launched referenda in 2012 to reject widespread federal authority. When the initiatives pass with narrow majorities, and governors sympathetic to the movement are elected in these states, a constitutional crisis develops. Newly elected President Morgan Boyd must deal with a Union that appears to be dissolving. Sensing the opportunity to make trouble, America's friends and enemies get involved, looking for an opportunity to benefit from the domestic political turmoil and the uncertainty in the armed forces.

This book will not only provide plenty of action, it will also address some profoundly important questions concerning the role of government, and warnings about the apparent trend toward a greater domestic role for the armed forces.

After publication was cancelled a few years ago, I had given up hope of ever reading this.

But after I posted the book description on The High Road, Plainsman contacted the publisher, and got this response:

We dropped the project several years ago. I know another publisher picked it up, but it still hasn't appeared, and frankly I don't know what its current status is.

Regards,

Harry Crocker
Executive Editor

That inspired me to do a little bit more research, and I found this from a web page about Peter Schweizer:

Peter Schweizer...is currently cowriting a biography on the Bush family, which will be released by Doubleday next year, and a novel with Caspar Weinberger, which will be published in 2003 by Simon and Schuster.

and an outdated page on Amazon for Untitled Thriller.

If anyone has info about Enemy Within (not to be confused with Larry Bond's book of the same title), it would greatly be appreciated.

 

[Travis McGee]

Mad Man
What is the status of the project? Was it spiked as too inflammatory?

Is the point of view of the book that knuckle dragging fundamentalist right wing gun nut Constitution fanatics will secede, and will need to be crushed and dragged back into the Union by a new Abe Lincoln with a new Sherman marching through Boise?

I like my novel's premise better, a low-level "dirty war" is a much more likely outcome. Check out the link to "ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC" up the thread, 40% of the novel is posted in "excerpts."