The SWAT Team’s Gone Deaf!

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SalukiFan

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So, I got a chance to interact a bit with the sergeant in charge of our local SWAT team. First off, let me say that these guys are experts. They are excellent, they train other SWAT teams from all over the U.S. and Canada and they have developed several raid techniques that are in wide use. If someone took me hostage, I would want these guys to take care of the situation.

He was talking about how loud the flash-bang distraction devices are (150 dBs) and so I asked a question:

Me: “So in a training or raid situation like that, where you’ve got flash-bangs exploding and you might have a lot of shooting in a confined space, what do you do to protect your hearing?”

SWAT Sergeant: “We SUCK IT UP! That’s what we do!”

I thought they might use active hearing protection (the kind you can hook up to a communications device) but they don't use anything. He also confirmed that while they had some suppressors for their firearms, they very seldom used them in raids, unless it is a special circumstance. He seemed royally annoyed that I even asked.

Is there something I don’t know about SWAT team gear or tactics that would totally preclude taking any precautions to limit hearing loss? :confused:
 
That's just stupid. There are plenty of in-ear protection devices, some active some passive.

The guys around my area use a small hearing aid looking device that has some active protections...

That's either lazy, incompetent, or criminally negligent depending on your viewpoint.
 
He seemed royally annoyed that I even asked.
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That's because he's practically deaf, and from the best of his ability, he thought you asked this:

“So when you all are drinking Cokes at McDonald's, you’ve got to the bottom and there's a little left, it seems rude to slurp, but there's still a last sip left- what do you do?”

“We SUCK IT UP! That’s what we do!”

;)
 
If you look at most of the pictures of the SF guys in Iraq/Afghanistan, they all have electronic hearing protection. Smart thing to do.

Mark
 
SalukiFan,

I bet I know the SGT you talked with, I have trained with a couple of those guys twice. Was it Scott or Mick? (you can leave the last names out)

Is there something I don’t know about SWAT team gear or tactics that would totally preclude taking any precautions to limit hearing loss?
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Money is the limiting factor. Good active hearing protection with comm suites that is compatible with ballisitc helmets is expensive. Most SWAT teams are pretty strapped for cash and given the choice between the choice between active hearing protection and ammunition and overtime money to train with, training is the choice. Most SWAT operations are concluded with NO shots being fired.

Jeff
 
Reboot ripoff:

Hey Al.... Get up here!... They've got a hostage!...


WHAT?


~GnSx
"Ha-ha... Attention span of a gnat-- wait.. What's a gnat?" ~Bob, Reboot
 
Hehehehaha.

When TSHTF, the only sound you'll hear is...

"Warning, Incoming Game. Warning, Incoming Game."

Y'ever think that whoever was using that computer would've eventually become totally pissed off by the fact that he kept losing at every game he played?

To keep things gun related: Remember Enzo's gun from the Third(?) season? That thing was the megahotness.

Command Line: Deathblossom mode!

~GnSx
 
Those guys are all one flashbang from becoming completely ineffective as a police force. Ever met a deaf cop? Wouldnt that be an ineresting training day that puts the entire SWAT team on the DL all at once.
 
There was a related thread a few weeks/months ago (I'm calendar impared). Couldn't find it in a search either. (Hmmm - wonder if it was TFL or something). Anyway ...

We had discussed the use of hearing protection by the toops in Iraq. Rather -we discussed the almost complete and total lack of hearing protection by the trooops in Iraq. I had been 'called out' (too strong, but best term I have) in that thread where I was whining that our guys weren't protecting their hearing.

The explanation I got was that they can't wear passive hearing protection for fairly obvious reasons. Same soldier explained that they didn't want to use active hearing protection, as they didn't want to trust it to not cut out speech at a critical moment.

I don't know either way as I've never been in a combat situation (sound of knuckles wrapping on wood) so who am I to argue? While his explanation made sense to me, I left the thread still wishing our troops were protecting their hearing.
 
If you look at most of the pictures of the SF guys in Iraq/Afghanistan, they all have electronic hearing protection. Smart thing to do.
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i am not sf, nor do i play one on television, but i've never seen any sf wearing any kind of hearing protection except for an occasional photo in sof and the guy that mans the ma deuce on the roof. obviously every soldier wears passive hearing protection on the range and i've seen a couple guys who had what looked like active earmuffs or communication headsets but i've never seen anyone use anything to protect their ears out on patrol. part of the issue is compatibility with a ballistic helmet. part is convenience and weight. i believe that you should ALWAYS use hearing protection in training but i understand why most folks don't in the real world.
 
Jeff White said:
SalukiFan,

I bet I know the SGT you talked with, I have trained with a couple of those guys twice. Was it Scott or Mick? (you can leave the last names out)


Quote:
Is there something I don’t know about SWAT team gear or tactics that would totally preclude taking any precautions to limit hearing loss?



Money is the limiting factor. Good active hearing protection with comm suites that is compatible with ballisitc helmets is expensive. Most SWAT teams are pretty strapped for cash and given the choice between the choice between active hearing protection and ammunition and overtime money to train with, training is the choice. Most SWAT operations are concluded with NO shots being fired.
Click to expand...


Hey, you DO know these guys! :) It was Scott. Honestly, during our interaction he was quite respectful and professional. In retrospect, I think that he reacted strongly to that particular question about hearing protection was because he was frustrated with the limitations they face NOT because he was really annoyed with me for asking.

Part of the reason I asked whether there was something about SWAT tactics or gear that precluded hearing protection was because I was interested in the tactical reasons that might affect whether or not you can protect your hearing (not being able to hear speech, incompatibility with helmets, etc.). I am certainly no expert when it comes to this but I do know combat veterans with hearing loss and I was worried about our officers being able to preserve their hearing.

I think that you're right when you say that a lot of the limitations are financial. Thinking back to what the sergeant said, the officers purchase a lot of their equipment themselves and hope for grants to cover expenses like chicken plate for their body armor. They deserve more support and personally, I'd like to attend the next local government meeting so that the folks allocating the money know that the public supports better funding for the critical incidents response team.

These officers train hundreds of extra hours a year, have to be on call 24/7, get called out during birthdays, anniversaries, kid's school plays, and risk their lives in highly dangerous situations all for an extra $500 a year. Because of financial limitations and gear limitation, they may even be jeopardizing their hearing. Even if they weren't paid extra, I think they would all do it anyway - just to protect our community.

So, that said, if there is hearing protection out there that can work for them, I'm going to see what I can do as a citizen to get funding for them. If there isn't any suitable protection, I hope that the technology will come along soon. Thanks for the thoughful comments and if there are folks reading this who haven't had the chance I would really recommend talking with your local police - it's an eye-opener and can help you develop an appreciation for the work that they do.
 
Biker said:
I'm now working on my newest invention: Tactical Cue Cards....
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Maybe Blackhawk would be interested. Goes w/o saying that you'll pursue the patent first, yes?
 
Of course. Since I spent 4 years in the artillery (1/84th FA 9th INF DIV) and have been married ever since ("No need to yell, Hon"), I've had the prototype sitting in my closet for years. NOW I have a market! ;)
Biker
 
RyanM said:
Why not see if they can afford a few pairs of these?

http://www.aosafety.com/aosafety.co...ucts/ear_03.htm

I remember seeing a different site that had tested the distances at which someone could hear some sounds, like a rifle bolt closing, and an engine idling, and the yellow end barely impaired hearing at all.
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Thanks for the link. Those look pretty neat and affordable maybe I'll see if they are something that the SWAT team would be able to use. They are cheap enough that they could try them and if they didn't work, it would not be a huge loss.
 
Salukifan,
The Sordins with a comm package compatible with your radios and helmet is the industry standard. However they are not inexpensive (not much in this business is).

Check them out here:
http://www.tacticalcommand.com/

I have used the plugs you recommended and they work pretty well.

Jeff
 
Jeff, would you wear those plugs on a call out?

I have long thought that while it is not practical for me to wear hearing protection all the time I always carry ear plugs in my pocket, in case I find myself in a high noise environment (usually from machinery, air tools, etc.) and if I found myself in a bad situation where I thought I might have to use a firearm and I had a chance to put in my plugs I would.

Lost a bit of hearing already, both to shooting and other noisemakers, do not want to lose more.
 
NMshooter,
I have Peltors that I use on a call out. Not as nice as the Sordins and I had a guy who's good with radio stuff piece together the right connection for my portable.

I was rated 10% disabled by the VA due to hearing loss when I retired from the Army. I'm very careful of my hearing too.

The problem I see with earplus is making them work with your radio. You get very little protection with a radio earpiece. I suppose one could use an earphone in one ear and a plug in the other, but you still have one ear unprotected.

There is an earplug type setup called SWAT ears. They run somewhere around $600.00 a pair and need to be fitted to the user.

Jeff
 
None of the active setups work without distorting your stereo hearing.
Put on a set and do a simunition run in a dark warehouse, you'll see why they aren't worn very much.

Sam
 
Sam,
My Peltors and the Sordins I've tried both have stereo hearing. The Peltors do cut out the audio from the outside while radio traffic is on on though.

Jeff
 
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