The Tactical Reload

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tetleyb

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When I first learned how to use a semi-automatic pistol, I was taught the tactical reload. You have a "lull" in the battle, so you take advantage of this "lull" to bring your pistol back up to full operating capacity. You do this by taking out the partly used magazine and replacing it with a full magazine. After which, the partially full magazine is place in your pants pocket, so you will "know which magazine is partially used, etc."

Several years later, I began to re-think this. Under stress, my reloading hand will automatically go to my magazine pouch, not to my pants pocket. Also, if I am in a kneeling, prone, or other unorthodox position, it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get that partially used magazine, if I needed it (doesn't matter if its in a front pants pocket or a rear pants pocket). So, I started using my farthest magazine for tactical reloads and my closest for combat/speed reloads.

I've had alot of people ask me why I do this. So I am wondering, what does everyone else do and why?
 
Well, it seems you are talking about two different things, but I get the idea. I think it is pretty much SOP to use your hardest to get to mag for a tac load, and keep the closest and easiest to access mag for a speed load. If possible, you replace the close mag with a full mag from another pouch asap.
I am assuming you are saying that if you do a tac load you use the hardest to access magazine for the load, then place the partially expended magazine in the vacant mag pouch ? Not a bad idea. I wouldn't personally spend a lot of time and effort to do that, but if possible, it is a good idea.
 
444,

Your right, I left that out. Yes, I meant the magazine you take out of your handgun, I put in my magazine pouch, and its partially full. I don't put it in my pocket. I hope that clears things up.

I've had a lot of instructors literally YELL at me for doing that, instead of putting it in my pocket.

Sorry for the confusion.
 
How many magazines do you expect to expend in a firefight? Kind of depends on what your mission is. A legally armed citizen or off duty officer who is properly operating in condition yellow will most likely not be in a position to even need a tactical reload. This isn't to suggest that you shouldn't train on them, you always want to face any threat with a fully loaded weapon if possible.

A police patrol officer may encounter a situation where a tac reload is necessary, but in most cases, he's carrying two or maybe three spare magazines.

The Army or Marine Infantryman or the SOF operator or police tactical team member are much more likely to find themselves in a position to actually use a tactical reload in a fight. These are the people most likely to be carrying enough spare magazines to even do their tac reload from the most inaccessable magazine.

Training on tactical reloads is good...it teaches you to manipulate your weapon. It helps you to develop muscle memory for where your gear is on your body. But I don't think it's worth yelling at a student that he's hosed up because he goes back to the mag pouch with his partially full magazine. I've yet to see a dump pouch on a police duty belt or CCW rig.

If it works for you to go back to your mag pouch, I don't see any problem with it. Years ago in the Army I used to put full mags in floor plates up and partials floor plates down the idea was I could tell by feel which was the full magazine.

I put my paritals in a pants pocket or dump pouch if I'm kitted up. It's the way I was trained. That doesn't mean that your way is wrong or my way is any better. If you train that way and it works for you then go for it.

Jeff
 
I dump it in my left front pocket. I thought about using my left cargo pocket but not every pair of pants has it and it's low and can get difficult to access. I think about it a lot but when I'm on the clock I usually screw up my tac reloads :banghead:
 
I've known a lot of guys who swear that "Only Full Mags Go In Mag Pouches" and that if you put a partial mag in your mag pouch you are courting disaster, death, doom and destruction. The idea being that you know that any mag coming from a pouch is fully loaded and wouldn't confuse a partial mag for a full one.

If you only carry one spare mag, why not put the partial in the mag pouch? The partial mag will be the most accessable, if it is needed, from the place where you are used to accessing spare ammo from. You wind up getting maximum repetitions on one action (arm movment from & to gun and pouch) rather than less reps on multiple actions and there is no confusion between partial & full spare magazines, since there is only one magazine to deal with.

If I carried multiple spare mags, the likelihood of confusing partial and full mags would go up and I would want to keep them segregated.
 
I just slip partially used mags into my pockets because that's the quickest for me. I don't want to be dicking around with putting away a spent mag in the middle of a gun fight (lull or not).

I'm just using what works for me. You need to make your own decisions about things that can determine whether you live or die.
 
I never liked the idea of putting a magazine into a pocked after a tac reload.

If you are carrying one mag put the partial back in the pouch so it's there for a speed load if needed.

If carrying multiple mags, tac load from the rear, and replace the partial there as well.

You have better chance of being struck by lightening than needing to speed load a partial magazine (or reloading at all), but I'd hate to be reaching for a mag pouch when what I need was stuffed into a pocket.
 
If you only carry one spare mag, why not put the partial in the mag pouch?
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Exactly.

While we're on the subject, I commit the sin of having my cartridges point to the back. Anyone want to debate that one?
 
My partial mag is dumped.

If I am in a situation where I need to reload (civilian) I want that mag gone.
I drop it. It doesn't matter to me if it is half full or even more, if the opportunity presents itself that I can and need to reload I drop that mag.

If the gun jams; I do the same. I want a new fresh mag.

I see few scenarios where I should need more than than one mag full of ammo anyway. Jams are more likely than running dry. That's why I carry spares.

Should I find myself in a situation where I am wishing I had that mag back that I threw away I figure by that time I am too busy shoveling all the waste material out of my britches anyway.:D

Edited to add:

While we're on the subject, I commit the sin of having my cartridges point to the back. Anyone want to debate that one?
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Me too.......So?:confused:
 
The important thing to remember when learning any physical skill is consistancy of execution. While I, personnally, carry bullets forward and I stow my partial mag in my waistband, I don't pretend that everyone else does or will.

The arguements in favor of bullets forward mag positioning are that when you draw the magazine with the index finger extended you will have tactile verification of magazine orientation and confirmation that there is, at least, one round in the magazine.

The arguement can be made that, under stress, you will not do this and that grabbing the magazine with your whole hand is a less complex skill to learn and perform under stress.

As long as you practice a consistant technique and are comfortable with the level of performance that you can reach using said technique, it's simply a matter of "whatever floats your boat":)

For what it's worth, my default magazine exchange is as follows:

Magazine Out of gun as gun retracts to a muzzle up position slightly forward of my head (Position Norte:D )

Magazine Stowed at beltline.

Magazine Retrieved from pouch.

Magazine inserted into pistol.

Slide Retracted and released.

Reacquire a two handed grip and Reengage as neccessary.
 
The arguements in favor of bullets forward mag positioning are that when you draw the magazine with the index finger extended you will have tactile verification of magazine orientation and confirmation that there is, at least, one round in the magazine.
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I agree, Paul...but in a bullets forward config, you have to rotate your elbow out (bad) to get that forefinger on the front of the mag, especially if your mag pouch is behind the hip (civvie).

Now, for argument's sake, place a mag in a pouch with bullets to the rear.

Drop your hand naturally...back of hand is out, right? Grasp the mag body like a pistol grip with finger extended (natural, for me.) Elbow is in tight, and when drawn, finger is at front of mag (for bullet verification and alignment with magwell, as you noted).

Try it, then tell me what you think.
 
Drop your hand naturally...back of hand is out, right? Grasp the mag body like a pistol grip with finger extended (natural, for me.) Elbow is in tight, and when drawn, finger is at front of mag (for bullet verification and alignment with magwell, as you noted).
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The other way feels unnatural. I've always trained with bullets to the rear....Think I'll stick with that.
 
That's what I'm saying...but the gunskulers don't agree, in fact, I've got mag pouches that force you into a bullet-forward carry.

Smoke, you driving in for the SAF convention?
 
Interesting lot of replies. Some for, some against.

As i've said in other threads, I am a police officer and run our firearms program for my department. I teach putting the partial mag into your mag pouch. Most of our officers carry two spare mags on their gunbelts. My reasoning is I would rather reload my gun with 5 rounds, in an emergency situation, then none at all. For everyone's info, I carry a total of 4 spare magazines and one in my handgun.

I don't agree with throwing a partially full magazine on the ground. Or clearing the malfunction my reloading the gun; although this does work. I've been involved in a shooting where I used all of 46 rounds on my gunbelt (before I started carrying 5 magazines). Granted, most of my gunfire was suppression or cover fire. Two other officers had been shot and it turned into a Hostage Rescue Situation. But, I was glad I had those extra rounds.

Thank you all for your input.
 
Thumper,

I've played with bullets rearward before and prior to typing this did a few reps with bullets rearward to refresh my memory. What I find is that my index finger falls along the flat of the magazine rather than along the front when I attempt to index it with bullets rearward. After drawing the mag from the pouch, I either have to attempt to insert the mag with that grip or while advancing the mag towards the gun, I have to reposition it in my hand. Neither of those options appeal to me. My ritual is to draw the mag with index finger indexed at the top round, mate the flat rear face of the mag with the flat rear wall of the magwell, begin insertion of mag into magwell and forcefully seat the magazine, then I run the slide. But, as I've said, if you have a system that works for you, you're better off than most.:D
 
Thumper said,
...but the gunskulers don't agree, in fact, I've got mag pouches that force you into a bullet-forward carry.

First and foremost, mag pouches are inannimate objects with no over people. If the mag pouches you have that 'force you to carry bullets forward are mag pouches undoubted dedicated for a particular side of carry. If you are a right hander and get a mag pouch, it will be on the left side and bullets forward. If you don't want bullets forward, then get a lefty pouch and wear on the lefty side and the bullets will be pointing rearward.

It isn't that complicated of an issue. You are just making bad purchase decisions.
 
If it's stupid, but works...maybe it's not stupid. I also carry my mags bullets pointing to the rear. I always carried them that way, from training before the modern technique was popular. I think you have to ask yourself is this latest technique worth changing years of training for? Will it give me any more advantage or is it something that I will take up up training time I could be using to improve actual weaknesses in my skill.

If you do tac reloads and go back to the mag pouch with your partially filled magazine and it works for you are you wrong? I don't think so. If you carry your mags with the bullets facing rearward and you can do tac and speed reloads along with the best of them, are you wrong? I don't think so.

Find a manual of arms that works with every weapon you carry for defensive purposes and train on it till you can do the drills without thinking. then train some more. And if someone tells your you're wrong, ask him to prove to you why his way is better. If he can, relook how you're doing things, if he can't, I don't see any reason to change, just because this instructor or that instructor has put a new name on an old technique and and written an article in a gun rag that says you'll surely die in your next gunfight if you don't stop doing things the old outdated way, and start using the new (fill in gunwriter's name here) technique.

Jeff
 
Firearms Instructor for my dept......and I always instruct my shooters to never put a depleted mag back into the mag pouch. As stated......in the heat of the moment I don't want me or them to grab a mag and think its full only to have 1, 2 or 4 rounds left in it. Bad tactics.

Its not whether or not it works for a person......its whether or not its a sound tactic. People talk about loosing fine motor skills when the crap hits the fan.......you think trying to stick a mag back into a mag pouch and snapping it is going to be any easier??
 
Smoke, you driving in for the SAF convention?
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Nope. Schedules prohibit.



That's what I'm saying...but the gunskulers don't agree
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I learned my technique at gunskule. :neener:


I've been involved in a shooting where I used all of 46 rounds
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Thats only two mag changes for my Para. :neener:

Seriously though, I'm civilian, suppression fire is going to be highly unlikely. I play the statistics. One must consider the odds. I figure I'm ahead of the game by even having a gun. After that, average is what: 3-4 rounds?
 
Well, I tend to be in the camp of pocketing partial mags and putting mags on the belt with the bullets facing forward.

In IDPA (I know its a game).. early on I put bullets toward the rear and put partial mags back on the belt.. but it outsmarted me on ocassion. I have pulled a partial mag out on a stage and found it a little short on ammo. Since then I pocket always. As for the reloads, I am much faster with the bullets forward. As I draw the mag I put my support hand index finger along the nose of the magazine. The mag is Deep in my hand. My index finger almost reaches the end of the magazine. The butt of the magazine is against the butt of my hand. Reloading with this grip on the magazine is much more normal for me because I point my index finger at the magwell, and just lead the mag to the gun. Pointing our fingers is a natural thing. However, if something works for you.. then use it.

Still, I think the partial mags should go in a back pocket or something. It was mentioned earlier that putting them back on the belt if you only carried one magazine was a good idea. Well, I cant argue with that much. There certainly isnt going to be a mix up, but under stress hitting the back pocket is faster than hitting the small mag holster on your hip. If you can do it without hesitation and hit it every time then maybe your gonna be ok. If you have trouble at times then go for that rear pocket or front pocket etc. Because if you sometimes have trouble just practicing it.. think whats going to happen under stress. I want the mag put away and I dont want to compromise my situational awareness.

My two cents, your mileage may vary...
 
I think that returning the partial mag to the pouch is a better idea for no other reason then it provides you with easy acess if you need to return to that mag. Who hasn't had a problem pulling something out of their pockets? Also if you properly train you should be able through simple muscle memory go for the correct pouch. Worst case scenario you grab a half full mag rather than fumbling with it in your pocket.
 
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