The Troop Pull-Out Now Vote... and -
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Desertdog
Member
Lawmakers Reject Immediate Iraq Withdrawal
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051119/D8DVI20O0.html
Nov 19, 7:56 AM (ET)
By LIZ SIDOTI
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Republican-controlled House spurned calls for an immediate pullout of troops from Iraq in a vote hastily arranged by the GOP that Democrats vociferously denounced as politically motivated.
"To cut and run would invite terrorism into our backyards, and no one wants to see troops fighting terrorism on American soil," Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., said Friday night after the House, as planned, rejected a GOP-written resolution for immediate withdrawal.
The vote, held as lawmakers rushed toward a two-week Thanksgiving break, was 403-3.
Democrats accused Republicans of orchestrating a political stunt that prohibited thoughtful debate on the issue, and nearly all voted against the measure.
That included Rep. John Murtha of Pennsylvania, the Democratic hawk whose call Thursday for pulling out troops set off a nasty, personal debate over the war.
"Our military is suffering. The future of our country is at risk. We cannot continue on our present course," Murtha said. He said the GOP resolution was not the thoughtful approach he had suggested to bring the troops safely home in six months.
The House action came in a week that also saw the GOP-controlled Senate defeat a Democratic push for President Bush to lay out a timetable for withdrawal. Instead, senators approved a statement that 2006 should be a significant year in which conditions are created for the phased withdrawal of U.S. forces.
"Congress in strong, bipartisan fashion rejected the call to cut and run," White House spokesman Scott McClellan, traveling with Bush in Asia, said a statement. Earlier Friday, the president called an immediate troop withdrawal "a recipe for disaster."
Murtha, a Marine veteran decorated for combat service in Vietnam and widely respected among his peers, issued his call for a troop withdrawal at a news conference Thursday. In little more than 24 hours, Hastert and Republicans decided to put the question to the House.
Republicans hoped to place Democrats in an unappealing position - either supporting a withdrawal that critics said would be precipitous or opposing it and angering voters who want an end to the conflict. They also hoped the vote could restore GOP momentum on an issue - the war - that has seen plummeting public support in recent weeks.
Democrats said it was a sham and quickly decided to vote against the resolution in an attempt to drain it of significance.
"A disgrace," declared House minority leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. "The rankest of politics and the absence of any sense of shame," added Rep. Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the No. 2 House Democrat.
At one point in the emotional debate, Rep. Jean Schmidt, R-Ohio, told of a phone call she received from a Marine colonel.
"He asked me to send Congress a message - stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message - that cowards cut and run, Marines never do," Schmidt said. Murtha is a 37-year Marine veteran and ranking Democrat on the defense appropriations subcommittee.
Democrats booed and shouted her down - causing the House to come to a standstill.
Rep. Harold Ford, D-Tenn., charged across the chamber's center aisle screaming that Republicans were making uncalled-for personal attacks. "You guys are pathetic! Pathetic!" yelled Rep. Marty Meehan, D-Mass.
Democrats gave Murtha a standing ovation as he entered the chamber and took his customary corner seat.
Murtha has proposed his own resolution that would force the president to withdraw the nearly 160,000 troops in Iraq "at the earliest practicable date." It would establish a quick-reaction force and a nearby presence of Marines in the region. It also said the U.S. must pursue stability in Iraq through diplomacy.
The Republican alternative: "It is the sense of the House of Representatives that the deployment of United States forces in Iraq be terminated immediately."
Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, said the resolution vote was not a stunt. "This is not an attack on an individual. This is a legitimate question," he said.
Three Democrats, Jose Serrano of New York, Robert Wexler of Florida and Cynthia McKinney of Georgia, voted for withdrawal. Six voted present: Reps. Jim McDermott of Washington; Jerrold Nadler, Maurice Hinchey and Major Owens of New York; Michael Capuano of Massachusetts and William Lacy Clay of Missouri.
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
MrTuffPaws
Member
Ah yes, grandstanding at its finest. Can we get get rid of all of them and start over?
DD & GWA.45... thank you for your input.
And:
Speaking with "forked tongue" isn't bright these days... too many places to find real (and almost real) facts, huh?
And:
Well, grandstanding or no, there are a lot of folks who, in their "No" vote, should expect to find it difficult to spout anti-war material... at least not without talking out of both sides of their mouths.MrTuffPaws said:
Speaking with "forked tongue" isn't bright these days... too many places to find real (and almost real) facts, huh?
gc70
Member
Grandstanding, indeed! The more I read about this, the madder I get.
The Democrats tossed out a resolution the day before a two-week Congressional recess. The resolution has a laundry-list of complaints for the Democrats to gripe about during the recess and then to debate when Congress returned to session. They knew that the bottom line of the resolution (cut and run) would be defeated, but they wanted a vehicle to make their points and a chance to confuse the public so that they could use the ultimate vote against the Republicans.
The Republicans beat the Democrats by taking away their talking points and the time to confuse the public and forced an immediate vote on the underlying question - stay to win or cut and run.
This is the first time in several years that I have been proud of the Republicans for showing some spine.
The Democrats tossed out a resolution the day before a two-week Congressional recess. The resolution has a laundry-list of complaints for the Democrats to gripe about during the recess and then to debate when Congress returned to session. They knew that the bottom line of the resolution (cut and run) would be defeated, but they wanted a vehicle to make their points and a chance to confuse the public so that they could use the ultimate vote against the Republicans.
The Republicans beat the Democrats by taking away their talking points and the time to confuse the public and forced an immediate vote on the underlying question - stay to win or cut and run.
This is the first time in several years that I have been proud of the Republicans for showing some spine.
ElTacoGrande
Member
Bring the troops home. I wish my reps would vote to pull them out. We've already lost the war. Time to declare victory and go home. All the Dems who voted against the pull-out have made a big mistake. They face an election in 11 months and by that time opinion of the war will have shifted even more than it has. In that election their opponents will make a big deal of "so-and-so voted no on the pull-out, and in the time since that 'no' vote another 1,200 troops have died" or whatever.
A question to the congress in general and to Rep. John Murtha in particular. If our military is in that bad of shape, why has there been no action to shore them up? Where are the defense bills directing for more spare parts, better training, equipment and such?
As a former Marine, he of all people on the Hill should know what its like to fight with used stuff.....
As a former Marine, he of all people on the Hill should know what its like to fight with used stuff.....
Godfather
Member
Ironbarr said:
Actually, the Indian gesture of moving two finger's accross their mouth to represent a hypocrite/liar meant "to speak with two faces", but was often mistaken for "speak with forked tongue". But it still applies here.
gc70
Member
Which war?
The US clearly won the war to depose Saddam Hussien.
The war to plant representative democracy in an Arab country is still in substantial doubt.
The war against terrorists seems to be going quite well.
Iraq is a magnet for Islamic terrorists, many of whom are achieving martyrdom there courtesy of the US military.
I will selfishly admit that I prefer terrorist attacks on Iraqis and the US military in Iraq than US citizens in the US. While I feel sorry for the Iraqi people, their suffering at the hands of the terrorists erodes Islamic sympathy for the terrorists, which would not be the case if the terrorists were striking Americans in America.
wally
Member
Democrats lie with their words and now they lie with their votes! A new low.
--wally.
--wally.
Don't Tread On Me
Member
Wow...the LEFTISTS have won again. They've won because they've framed the debate in their favor.
It isn't a "pull-out"
It is a retreat. Or even a surrender in a way.
Just like "Animal Rights"...animals don't have rights. Or "Gun safety" groups...
It isn't a "pull-out"
It is a retreat. Or even a surrender in a way.
Just like "Animal Rights"...animals don't have rights. Or "Gun safety" groups...
Monkeyleg
Member.
"It also said the U.S. must pursue stability in Iraq through diplomacy."
Pardon me, Mr. Suicide Bomber. Might I persuade you to disarm your bomb so that we might chat for a moment?
Pardon me, Mr. Suicide Bomber. Might I persuade you to disarm your bomb so that we might chat for a moment?
Thank you for the lesson - I didn't know that. Also, I like your sig - since I have no dog, reckon I best hone some canines.Godfather said:
Now folks - just for kicks, let's put this "pull-out" idea in perspective:
Assume for a moment that the very last U.S. (et al) military person/equipage left for Germany and home YESTERDAY. With no heavy armament, no air force, no navy, no modern communications, (and probably even more "no's", what do you believe is happening TODAY?? Tomorrow? Next month?
What is your thoughtful analysis?
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Nothing new about it. Representatives of the Democratic (sic) party have been lying with their words and votes alike since Franklin Delano Roosevelt occupied the White House.
ReadyontheRight
Member
Exactly HOW have we "lost" the war?
ravinraven
Member
"Pardon me, Mr. Suicide Bomber. Might I persuade you to disarm your bomb so that we might chat for a moment?"
BLAM!
Next.
BLAM!
Next.
Desertdog
Member
IMHO we have two choices.
Choice #1 - Fight them in Iraq and Middle East, or
Choice #2 - Fight them all over America.
Which choice would you pick.
P.S. There has already been at least 2 attacks in America (World Trade Center), and possibly the Oklahoma City bombing.
Choice #1 - Fight them in Iraq and Middle East, or
Choice #2 - Fight them all over America.
Which choice would you pick.
P.S. There has already been at least 2 attacks in America (World Trade Center), and possibly the Oklahoma City bombing.
bjbarron
Member
I don't quite understand all the Murtha hoopla. It's not like he came to an epiphany or anything just last week. The winger radio shows here on the dirty coast are playing his same 'we need to get out' comments from every year since 2002. I guess it keeps his name in the news tho. And the Dims sense traction.
Interesting poll the other day. With Bushies popularity in the tank people were asked that if there was an election today, would they vote for Bush. The same group polled his popularity below 40% polled 53% to keep him.
Another poll not to trust, but the Dims have to know that deranged bitching for 8 years about an administration is not the same as coming up with competitive ideas. Bush ain't running again, guys. What are you going to tell the country you did for 8 years that deserves for us to give the country back to you? As screwed up as Bush is, his current popularity is about where Clinton's was, and nowhere near as low as Carter’s or Nixon’s got to.
The Bush administrations indictment record needs only 48 more to match Clintons.
I think the Democrats would be better served by coming up with ideas for the economy, and alternatives to Iraq if they were so dead set against it. Pure, incessant whining and bitching aren’t making me feel very confident in them.
Notice in all of this complaining for the past 5 years that the Dims have never said anything about our open borders…a big-time legitimate target. Oh, but you’ll hear about it when we get attacked again.
What about the shoe bomber flying into Miami, WTC I, the muslim guy at the college game who blew himself up, and that guy caught with explosives coming in over the border from Canada on the West coast. I bet there are a lot more we haven't heard of.
Interesting poll the other day. With Bushies popularity in the tank people were asked that if there was an election today, would they vote for Bush. The same group polled his popularity below 40% polled 53% to keep him.
Another poll not to trust, but the Dims have to know that deranged bitching for 8 years about an administration is not the same as coming up with competitive ideas. Bush ain't running again, guys. What are you going to tell the country you did for 8 years that deserves for us to give the country back to you? As screwed up as Bush is, his current popularity is about where Clinton's was, and nowhere near as low as Carter’s or Nixon’s got to.
The Bush administrations indictment record needs only 48 more to match Clintons.
I think the Democrats would be better served by coming up with ideas for the economy, and alternatives to Iraq if they were so dead set against it. Pure, incessant whining and bitching aren’t making me feel very confident in them.
Notice in all of this complaining for the past 5 years that the Dims have never said anything about our open borders…a big-time legitimate target. Oh, but you’ll hear about it when we get attacked again.
What about the shoe bomber flying into Miami, WTC I, the muslim guy at the college game who blew himself up, and that guy caught with explosives coming in over the border from Canada on the West coast. I bet there are a lot more we haven't heard of.
wingnutx
Member
Progress in Iraq looks a lot more impressive first-hand.
It looks non-existent on the evening news.
This vote made me very happy. If it means that I do another tour, I have no problem with that.
It looks non-existent on the evening news.
This vote made me very happy. If it means that I do another tour, I have no problem with that.
Desertdog
Member
I was just talking about the real successful ones. I am sure there have been many more prevented than we have heard of.
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ravinraven
Member
"I think the Democrats would be better served by coming up with ideas for the economy, and alternatives to Iraq if they were so dead set against it. Pure, incessant whining and bitching aren’t making me feel very confident in them."
The problem for the Dims [hehhehheh] in coming up with ideas, etc. is that the core of their constituency THEY [the dims] think isn't smart enough to follow real debate and make reasonable decisions therefom, but will run to the voting booth drooling to vote for their candidates if only enough name calling and whining gets aired. The Democrats routinely insult their own constituency by their actions and blatherings. And I'm beginning to think that that constituency is not smart enough to realize they are being insulted. So. Maybe the Democrat strategists are correct in their actions.
I doubt that Congressman Murtha really believes that liberty would be better served by us packing it in in Iraq. I doubted during the slickster years that Slick ever really believed anything he was peddaling. He just knew that saying it would get votes.
There was a time when the right to vote was limited to people who had some idea what was going on and/or had a stake in the game other than to soak up goodies and do nothing else. Of course, to suggest a return to that would get me called a Nazi, etc. Given a free choice, the masses will, sooner or later, happily vote themselves into slavery and cheer the whole way into the dungeon.
rr
The problem for the Dims [hehhehheh] in coming up with ideas, etc. is that the core of their constituency THEY [the dims] think isn't smart enough to follow real debate and make reasonable decisions therefom, but will run to the voting booth drooling to vote for their candidates if only enough name calling and whining gets aired. The Democrats routinely insult their own constituency by their actions and blatherings. And I'm beginning to think that that constituency is not smart enough to realize they are being insulted. So. Maybe the Democrat strategists are correct in their actions.
I doubt that Congressman Murtha really believes that liberty would be better served by us packing it in in Iraq. I doubted during the slickster years that Slick ever really believed anything he was peddaling. He just knew that saying it would get votes.
There was a time when the right to vote was limited to people who had some idea what was going on and/or had a stake in the game other than to soak up goodies and do nothing else. Of course, to suggest a return to that would get me called a Nazi, etc. Given a free choice, the masses will, sooner or later, happily vote themselves into slavery and cheer the whole way into the dungeon.
rr
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