the ways and woes of manufacturers today

[SSN Vet]

This is part of a reply I posted on a thread where a guy was addressing quality issues with a gun purchase he was considering. I thought it might be sufficient fuel to start a thread of it's own. Mods, please feel free to move or axe as you think appropriate.

I'm not a gun expert by any standard....but I do design industrial packaging for a living and I've been STUNNED (strong word intentionally chosen) at how bare bones, absolute rock bottom the packaging is on the long guns I've seen NIB this year. Hot wire cut, expanded poly-styrene foam (EPS), of a lower grade than even the cheapest disposable beer cooler, and a single wall corrugated box made from really crappy recycled material (without a cert. stamp so there's no Q.C. whatsoever)....most likely imported in mass from the third world).

Were talking about $500 to $800 long guns shipping across the continent (ocean?) in a package that cost less than $3.

IMO, part of any manufacturers quality program should be packaging. Product that rolls of the assembly line immaculate, should IMO be in the same condition when the customer opens the box in their home. But price pressure (mostly from imports) is driving U.S. manufacturers to cut every penny of cost possible.

I think an additional dynamic affecting manufacturers is part of what I'll call the "Wal-Mart culture" (though in all fairness, it probably pre-dates even them). This is the idea that you can return anything at anytime for any reason (i.e. Uh, I changed my mind and decided I don't like it). If manufacturers want to have access to these retailers (which are putting the small guys out of business in droves) those are the rules!

Here's a little story that illustrates how this affects the products you and I buy today. About three years ago I was speaking with the PRESIDENT of a profitable American manufacturing company (not a maker of firearms, so please don't ask who) about quality problems they were having and some ideas to improve their processes. He made this statement.....which I quote verbatim (it made such an impression on me, I'll always remember it).

"IT'S CHEEPER TO PICK IT UP, REWORK IT AND SHIP IT AGAIN THAN TO GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!!"

Three years later, this company is doing very, very well.

They can be proud of the money their making.....but not of the product their producing. But in this day and age.....money seems to be all that matters.

Sadly, I think it's us, the consumers that have set the stage for this kind of mentality.

So much for rambling....

 

[XDKingslayer]

Health care costs are going up. Shipping costs are going up. Materials are going up. Salaries, however, are not.

Gun companies, and any company for that matter, have three choices. Raise prices, cut costs in thier product, or cut costs elsewhere. People sure don't want to pay more and most companies don't want to make crappy products, so the easiet way to save money without upsetting the consumer is in packaging.

It's the safest bet of the three.

 

[Car Knocker]

I understand Wilson Combat ships its $3,000+ products inside a plastic bag in a cardboard box. I don't imagine their customers, who have probably been waiting months for their firearm, would snivel over an extra $10 for a foam-lined plastic box to ensure extra shipping protection. Something other than profit motive must be at work here.

 

[bruss01]

The last one I got came wrapped in bubble wrap, inside a plain cardboard box.

Unimpressive. The one before that came in a cardboard box inside a cardboard box. Eh, whatever. They both got here in one piece with no damage. If there had been damage, they would've gone back post haste.

 

[Tommygunn]

Many companies have spent big $$ researching how to ship stuff inexpensively and safely. Just because it's in a seemingly cheap box doesn't mean it was packed unsafely or even crudely. It often is about more than just how individual things are packaged, it's also about how many of the boxes are packed and stored; whether they're palletized, how, how high, etc.
Of the two last guns I bought, one was a Rossi .38 snubbie, which came in a cardboard box, and the other was a Bushie M4orgery, which came in a foamline plastic case. Both are in new condition and both work just fine.
Things can happen to individual guns in shipment, sure. Something could happen to crush the Rossi's box and maybe distort the frame of the gun. But the Bushmaster's case, while sturdier, isn't immune from cr@p happening to it either. Hopefully, these accidents are weeded out BEFORE they get to the retailer!
Should we expect them shipped in foam lined steel cases? I don't think so. Like it or not cost effectiveness analysis is gonna stay with private industry.
Too bad government won't try it. We'd all be better off -- but that's a different story....

 

[Boats]

What I find cheap are the products inside. I look at the effort that went into my Swiss K-31 and then compare that to my more "modern" rifles, and I can only snort at the effort of the latter day pieces.

 

[lee n. field]

The last one I got came wrapped in bubble wrap,

I'll up you one. The last gun (handgun, plastic) I got back from factory service came floating free in a bubble pack envelope.

 

[MechAg94]

"IT'S CHEEPER TO PICK IT UP, REWORK IT AND SHIP IT AGAIN THAN TO GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!!"

Or to put it another way, the incremental cost of 0% failures/rejections is too high. Do enough QA/QC to keep the return rate at an acceptable margin.

 

[Correia]

I recieve a lot of guns. Both NIB, and transfers from other dealers and individuals.

My personal favorite? Somebody shipped us a $10,000 NFA transferable AR auto sear... in a plain white envelope... no padding... nada. Just a regular white envelope.

Sometimes the unexpected happens. We had a UPS truck hit a caribou a little while ago and UPS ruled that one of our rifles on that shipment was destoryed.

I've heard other horror stories. A certain well-known gunstore (which shall remain unnamed in public, but I think they're a bunch of obnoxious jerks) is notorious for shipping out super expensive NFA weapons in really crappy packaging. I know of one MP-44 that they shipped in a plain box, no padding, with the bolt locked open. By the time that it arrive the bolt handle had poked through the box, and it had ground and bounced against the receiver and damaged it.

I shipped 80 AKs awhile back. I thought I had them packaged well, but that AK charging handle is sharp, and several of them popped through the packaging. Now we know and pad the handle.

 

[Werewolf]

"IT'S CHEEPER TO PICK IT UP, REWORK IT AND SHIP IT AGAIN THAN TO GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!!"

Three years later, this company is doing very, very well.

In the 80's I ran the quality organization for an international manufacturer of medical equipment. I know what QA can do for a product. If I was in front of that Co. President I'd tell him that he needs a new VP of quality because he sure as heck doesn't know how to measure the cost of quality (which to those outside the field probably would make more sense if it was called the cost of low or inadequate quality). If you don't know the cost of quality you have no way of positively stating that rework is cheaper than doing it right the first time. That said: It's always cheaper to do it right the first time than to have to do it twice. One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist or even a quality professional to know that.

Quality isn't free but it always, always pays for itself if properly implemented. One of the most common mistakes made both by the untrained and lay people is believing that QA means inspection, that quality can be inspected in. WRONG! The idea is to implement systems that prevent mistakes, not catch'em after the fact. All that does is sort the wheat from the chaff and that is expensive. Build it right the first time. It can be done. GE does it along with many other world class companies. It is only the uninformed that believe otherwise.

As for that company doing very, very well. I don't doubt it. One of the accepted definitions of QUALITY is meeting customer expectations. Well customer expectations have been diminishing in the market place for a while and as Phillip Crosby said (one of the top 3 quality gurus in the field) good enough is good enough.

The caveat to that is that as well as that company is doing today it would be doing even better if it had a properly implemented quality program.

 

[CrazyIrishman]

I've been pretty lucky so far with guns that I've received. An AR15 that I got in a trade was double boxed. It was in the original Colt box w/ plastic sleeve and divider then wrapped in bubble wrap, then put inside a much thicker box. When I picked it up from the dealer it looked like he used a chainsaw to open the box!

It came from Vermont to Maryland in one piece!(REALLY!)

OTOH, I bought an O3-A3 that although it arrived unscathed the packing was on the minimal side. Nothing was damaged on the inside but if it I had been the one packing it I would have used a little additional packing.

I guess if your business has quite a few boxes being shipped each day it might be a problem taking extra time to "do it right".

If I was buying an expensive long arm or pistol (as in a custom build)I would expect the manufacturer to pack it accordingly. Just because you can send it back if its damaged in shipment, if you're the customer who has waited patiently maybe for months to get delivery of their custom firearm, an apology plus more time waiting on repairs is hardly the way to keep customers!