"The Winter War" (Talvisota)

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Cosmoline

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I recently picked the DVD up at Amazon. It goes for a hefty $45 clams new, but there are used ones that come up from time to time. I got mine for around $20 and it's in mint condition.

Here's the overview:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098437/

It's a Finnish film about the Winter War, made in 1989. The film is exceptionally graphic, exceeding even "Saving Private Ryan" and other recent US films that don't shy away from blood. It chronicles the service of one squad of Civil Guard soldiers as they are called up, go on training and then endure the war itself. It ends with the cease fire.

The Finns were, of course, short of everything from uniforms to ammunition. The soldiers were expected to stop mass assaults supported by Soviet tanks and artillery with little more than their rifles. But somehow they did. However it came at a high price. Over the course of the war virtually the entire unit is destroyed, which reflects the enormous losses suffered by the front line units in that exceptionally bloody conflict.

I would place it first among "Mosin Movies." The opening shot is in fact of Finnish Mosins, and the actors appear to have been well trained on them. There's none of the clumsy fumbling with the bolts seen in other films with the rifles.

Talvisota is far more brutal than "Enemy at the Gates" and the action is more realistic. The film properly shows that the Soviet mass charges weren't just hairbrained suicide missions. They were generally well orchestrated charges backed by heavy weapons. But when you charge towards trenches lined with Finnish marksmen and their 28/30's--you die. From a tactical point of view, the film gets across how vital marksmanship was for the Finns. It made all the difference, and was critical in the victory of a small, well-trained force over a much larger, poorly-trained force.

Since the Winter War itself was more of a harbinger of the Cold War than part of WWII, it's not really an "eastern front" movie. It's well worth picking up.

The only complaints I have are about the DVD itself. It was put together by a small outfit on what most have been a tiny budget and was never remastered. The DVD copy appears to have been transferred from video, and it's pretty dark. Eventually we should get a proper DVD edition, but in the mean time this one works fine.
 
Got'em both and both are great. Oleg says the scenery is like the area his family used to holiday during the summers.
 
Talvisota is a great movie. I have it on VHS. The only thing I didn't like about it was that in several scenes there was insufficient contrast between the subtitles and the underlying movie.

I'm going to have to get Ambush.
 
The LGS has a very cool Finnish rifle, it is 20mm, scoped and mounted on runners. Designed for annoying Russians.
 
As a American whose mother and family came to this country from Finland in 1940 ... it warms the heart to see THR members have discovered two awesome movies depicting this proud period of Finnish history ... as a boy, I was treated to the stories (told in the movies) every time all my relatives got together ...these movies are best experienced if you take sauna after viewing to discuss the films (strong coffee or vodka during or afterward optional) ...

From a tactical point of view, the film gets across how vital marksmanship was for the Finns.
Absolutely, the Finns have not only a long tradition of marksmanship, but also of manufacturing superb rifles ...
 
I always blank on the top Finnish sniper's name. But his story is incredible. I believe he was once shot in the chin and had to recover for a time. But he was credited with more than 500 Russian soliders killed, I believe.
 
Simo Hayha was his name. His story is all the more amazing given his non-military background and the short duration of the winter war. He passed away recently, but here's an account of a visit with him from Tuco and crew:

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp

...
There were a number of interesting facts that we passed on to the group in a short question and answer period. Mr. Häyhä stated that he used the Mosin Nagant M28 rifle as his "sniping" rifle. This was indeed a standard issue rifle with iron sights, which is somewhat amazing as many of his targets were engaged at 400 yards or more. He had been given a Swedish Mauser equipped with a scope but he preferred the M28 to the scoped rifle . (Note: It has been reported that the Swede Mauser was given to Mr. Häyhä in February of 1940. I did not have time to confirm this but will try and find out if this is true in May 2001 when I return to Finland.) Simo Häyhä told us there were many reasons he liked the M28 over the scoped Mauser. One was that the M28 was more suited to his size of 160cm. He also stated that the scoped rifle forced him to raise his head a bit more than he liked, and this added profile might have given a Red Army sharpshooter too good of a target. He also made the point that he had always used iron sights and was used to them. Lastly iron sights were not prone to breakage or fogging which was a real worry in the snow and ice of Finland during the Winter War. One of the lighter segments of this came when we were asked how many in our group owned M28 rifles and almost every hand in the group was raised. Mr. Häyhä seemed quite surprised at this fact but it was also obvious he had a smile on his face. He knew he was in a room with a group that understood these weapons and had a deep respect for them
 
Borachon said:
I always blank on the top Finnish sniper's name. But his story is incredible. I believe he was once shot in the chin and had to recover for a time. But he was credited with more than 500 Russian soliders killed, I believe.
Simo Häyhä
500+ kills with rifle, 200+ with submachinegun, according to all sources I've read.
 
There are two copies on e-bay right now. One for $15.00 and the other for $20.00. I thought about buying one, but I've bought too much stuff for my roadbike this month. Darn self imposed budgets.

Anyway, if anyone's interested:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&fstype=1&from=R10&satitle=the+winter+war%2C+dvd&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=76110&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=
 
I saw that movie at a theater when it first came out.

For those who are interested, see if you can find Väinö Linna's great book (novel based on his own front line experience) from what the Finns call the Continuation War 1941-44. I think it was at some point translated into English, "The Unknown Soldier".

Regarding the snipers, I think there were a number of them who "scored" several hundred, including one or two that may have had more than Simo Häyhä. Many of them just didn't bother to count, or talk much about it later.

Cosmo, I don't know if Häyhä's non-military background is "amazing". All the Finns were conscripts. Ordinary men who defended their homes. They just happened to do it better than most. A conscription military isn't necessarily the same as a low quality military. Hey, I just went back to your opening post where you say: "the victory of a small, well-trained force" ... practically all with a non-military background except for national service, I don't know how long that was in 1930s Finland.

Cosmoline: "The opening shot is in fact of Finnish Mosins, and the actors appear to have been well trained on them. There's none of the clumsy fumbling with the bolts seen in other films with the rifles." That may be because all the male Finnish actors still do their national service (even if that is with more modern rifles these days). I bet the percentage of hunters/shooters among Finnish/Scandinavian actors is also considerably higher than among their American colleagues, something that could make the training process a bit easier.
 
M67 said:
Cosmo, I don't know if Häyhä's non-military background is "amazing". All the Finns were conscripts. Ordinary men who defended their homes. They just happened to do it better than most. A conscription military isn't necessarily the same as a low quality military. Hey, I just went back to your opening post where you say: "the victory of a small, well-trained force" ... practically all with a non-military background except for national service, I don't know how long that was in 1930s Finland.

My understanding was that the Civil Guard was more of a volunteer militia, not a conscript army. The bios I can find for Hayha confirm he volunteered for the Civil Guard and had completed his mandatory regular army stint long before the war started. My info is the mandatory service was only 15 months.

I bet the percentage of hunters/shooters among Finnish/Scandinavian actors is also considerably higher than among their American colleagues, something that could make the training process a bit easier.

That I think is the key. Most if not all America's most effective soldiers had a hunting background--even our aces.
 
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