There's only one way to protect ourselves – and here's the proof

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Drizzt

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There's only one way to protect ourselves – and here's the proof
By Richard Munday
(Filed: 23/01/2005)

Today, 96 years ago, London was rocked by a terrorist outrage. Two Latvian anarchists, who had crossed the Channel after trying to blow up the president of France, attempted an armed wages robbery in Tottenham. Foiled at the outset when the intended victims fought back, the anarchists attempted to shoot their way out.

A dramatic pursuit ensued involving horses and carts, bicycles, cars and a hijacked tram. The fleeing anarchists fired some 400 shots, leaving a policeman and a child dead, and some two dozen other casualties, before they were ultimately brought to bay. They had been chased by an extraordinary posse of policemen and local people, armed and unarmed. Along the way, the police (whose gun cupboard had been locked, and the key mislaid) had borrowed at least four pistols from passers-by in the street, while other armed citizens joined the chase in person.

Today, when we are inured to the idea of armed robbery and drive-by shootings, the aspect of the "Tottenham Outrage" that is most likely to shock is the fact that so many ordinary members of the public at that time should have been carrying guns in the street. Bombarded with headlines about an emergent "gun culture" in Britain now, we are apt to forget that the real novelty is the notion that the general populace in this country should be disarmed.

In a material sense, Britain today has much less of a "gun culture" than at any time in its recent history. A century ago, the possession and carrying of firearms was perfectly normal here. Firearms were sold without licence in gunshops and ironmongers in virtually every town in the country, and grand department stores such as Selfridge's even offered customers an in-house range. The market was not just for sporting guns: there was a thriving domestic industry producing pocket pistols and revolvers, and an extensive import trade in the cheap handguns that today would be called "Saturday Night Specials". Conan Doyle's Dr Watson, dropping a revolver in his pocket before going out about town, illustrates a real commonplace of that time. Beatrix Potter's journal records a discussion at a small country hotel in Yorkshire, where it turned out that only one of the eight or nine guests was not carrying a revolver.

We should not fool ourselves, however, that such things were possible then because society was more peaceful. Those years were ones of much more social and political turbulence than our own: with violent and incendiary suffrage protests, massive industrial strikes where the Army was called in and people were killed, where there was the menace of a revolutionary General Strike, and where the country was riven by the imminent prospect of a civil war in Ireland. It was in such a society that, as late as 1914, the right even of an Irishman to carry a loaded revolver in the streets was upheld in the courts (Rex v. Smith, KB 1914) as a manifestation simply of the guarantees provided by our Bill of Rights.

In such troubled times, why did the commonplace carrying of firearms not result in mayhem? How could it be that in the years before the First World War, armed crime in London amounted to less than 2 per cent of what we see today? One answer that might have been taken as self-evident then, but which has become political anathema now, is that the prevalence of firearms had a stabilising influence and a deterrent effect upon crime. Such deterrent potential was indeed acknowledged in part in Britain's first Firearms Act, which was introduced as an emergency measure in response to fears of a Bolshevik upheaval in 1920. Home Office guidance on the implementation of the Act recognised "good reason for having a revolver if a person lives in a solitary house, where protection from thieves and burglars is essential". The Home Office issued more restrictive guidance in 1937, but it was only in 1946 that the new Labour Home Secretary announced that self-defence would no longer generally be accepted as a good reason for acquiring a pistol (and as late as 1951 this reason was still being proffered in three-quarters of all applications for pistol licences, and upheld in the courts). Between 1946 and 1951, we might note, armed robbery, the most significant index of serious armed crime, averaged under two dozen incidents a year in London; today, that number is exceeded every week.

The Sunday Telegraph's Right to Fight Back campaign is both welcome and a necessity. However, an abstract right that leaves the weaker members of society – particularly the elderly – without the means to defend themselves, has only a token value. As the 19th-century jurist James Paterson remarked in his Commentaries on the Liberty of the Subject and the Laws of England Relating to the Security of the Person: "In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms – and these the best and the sharpest – for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

Restrictive "gun control" in Britain is a recent experiment, in which the progressive "toughening" of the regulation of legal gun ownership has been followed by an increasingly dramatic rise in violent armed crime. Eighty-four years after the legal availability of pistols was restricted to Firearm Certificate holders, and seven years after their private possession was generally prohibited, they still figure in 58 per cent of armed crimes. Home Office evidence to the Dunblane Inquiry prior to the handgun ban indicated that there was an annual average of just two incidents in which licensed pistols appeared in crime. If, as the Home Office still asserts, "there are links between firearms licensing and armed crime", the past century of Britain's experience has shown the link to be a sharply negative one.

If Britain was a safer country without our present system of denying firearms to the law-abiding, is deregulation an option? That is precisely the course that has been pursued, with conspicuous success in combating violent crime, in the United States.

For a long time it has been possible to draw a map of the United States showing the inverse relationship between liberal gun laws and violent crime. At one end of the scale are the "murder capitals" of Washington, Chicago and New York, with their gun bans (New York City has had a theoretical general prohibition of handguns since 1911); at the other extreme, the state of Vermont, without gun laws, and with the lowest rate of violent crime in the Union (a 13th that of Britain). From the late Eighties, however, the relative proportions on the map have changed radically. Prior to that time it was illegal in much of the United States to bear arms away from the home or workplace, but Florida set a new legislative trend in 1987, with the introduction of "right-to-carry" permits for concealed firearms.

Issue of the new permits to law-abiding citizens was non-discretionary, and of course aroused a furore among gun control advocates, who predicted that blood would flow in the streets. The prediction proved false; Florida's homicide rate dropped, and firearms abuse by permit holders was virtually non-existent. State after state followed Florida's suit, and mandatory right-to-carry policies are now in place in 35 of the United States.

In a nationwide survey of the impact of the legislation, John Lott and David Mustard of the University of Chicago found that by 1992, right-to-carry states had already seen an 8 per cent reduction in murders, 7 per cent reduction in aggravated assaults, and 5 per cent reduction in rapes. Extrapolating from the 10 states that had then implemented the policy, Lott and Mustard calculated that had right-to-carry legislation been nationwide, an annual average of some 1,400 murders, 4,200 rapes and more than 60,000 aggravated assaults might have been averted. The survey has lent further support to the research of Professor Kleck, of Florida State University, who found that firearms in America serve to deter crime at least three times as often as they appear in its commission.

Over the last 25 years the number of firearms in private hands in the United States has more than doubled. At the same time the violent crime rate has dropped dramatically, with the significant downswing following the spread of right-to-carry legislation. The US Bureau of Justice observes that "firearms-related crime has plummeted since 1993", and it has declined also as a proportion of overall violent offences. Violent crime in total has declined so much since 1994 that it has now reached, the bureau states, "the lowest level ever recorded". While American "gun culture" is still regularly the sensational subject of media demonisation in Britain, the grim fact is that in this country we now suffer three times the level of violent crime committed in the United States.

Today, on this anniversary of the "Tottenham Outrage", it is appropriate that we reflect upon how the objects of outrage in Britain have changed within a lifetime. If we now find the notion of an armed citizenry anathema, what might the Londoners of 1909 have made of our own violent, disarmed society?

•Richard Munday is the author of Most Armed & Most Free? and co-author of Guns & Violence: The Debate Before Lord Cullen

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/01/23/do2302.xml

the right even of an Irishman to carry a loaded revolver in the streets was upheld in the courts
letting an Irishman carry a gun? Heaven forbid..... ;)
 
Good article.....maybe there's hope for our British friends after all
 
Along the way, the police (whose gun cupboard had been locked, and the key mislaid) had borrowed at least four pistols from passers-by in the street

Maybe this is just, well...American of me, but if somebody locked their own gun away so well that they can't get to it, I will NOT give them mine!
 
I am not sure the article is fully correct. They blamed all of the death and injuries on the robbers. The deaths seem well enough documented, but not all the other firearms-related woundings.

The article claims to present proof that there is only one way to protect ourselves, that apparently being by guns. However, the events of that day were considerably more complicated. Firearms were involved as was a mob posse composed of officers and citizens.

I am not sure how well the article supports the claim about being the only way to protect ourselves. The author refers to a time when people were allowed to have guns and they used them to foil the crime, only the payroll people were injured and the boy killed before the robbers were fired on. So people had guns but could do nothing to stop the initial murder and woundings.

The robbers were pursued by incompetent law enforcement (who had to smash their own gun cabinet to get their own guns out) and by citizens. Officer Tyler was killed when he rode up next to the robbers to tell them the game was up for them at which time one of the robbers shot him squarely in the face and he bled to death. Why you would approach robbers and try to convince them that the had no chance of success, but still were armed, is beyond me. That was a very poor choice on the part of Tyler.

During the chase, the robbers fired over 400 rounds. That is amazing given they they were reported to only have pistols.

So, the Police were shooting at the robbers and vice versa. Somehow I doubt that all the injuries were by the robbers who apparently were much better organized and prepared than the police.

http://www.ferrylane.org.uk/outrage.html

Being able to have guns is most definitely a good right for law abiding citizens, but this article hardly proves this point. It could well be argued that more armed and better prepared police to could have resolved the issue as well.

Additionally, there is the facet that the robbers were prepared. As we have seen time and time again, when the bad guys come to commit a crime and are well prepared to handle contingencies, bad things happen to good people. This is one example. The Miami FBI shootout and North Hollywood bank robbery are two recent stateside example. There are many more from the gangster days where gangsters like Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde were not only prepared, but well practiced.

Think about it. In 1909 and only carrying pistols, these two bad guys had at least 400 rounds of ammo with them that they fired. They came to the situation prepared. Too bad the police were not prepared.
 
My response from the other board I post on, would seem to be valid here as well:

In terms of statistics, his argument breaks down into a number of issues, centered on the UK and the US. Of course (since most of us live here) we all know that British society has changed massively since 1920, which Munday ignores, because of course the basic premise of his theory is rubbish. The rise in crime since the 1920's is not because firearms legislation has removed arms from the public, its because people generally have become richer. When my grandparents generation left their houses unlocked, thats not because crime was lower but because generally they had nothing worth stealing. Compare that with today, when most households have a TV, nearly everyone has a mobile and carries money with them. Even if you restrict changes to criminal justice, one could also point to the changes in sentencing since that period, but of course Munday does not do this.

Not that he is unique in that - the first person to do so that I am aware of is the American "academic" Joyce Lee Malcolm ("academic" because she has been caught lying in print, much the same as Bellisiles except without the punishment) who had a very similar theory.

When Munday comes to the US, he repeats the line of the statistical branch of the gun-rights lobby (the other, more honest libertarian branch believes it is a right to be armed and no amount of statistical flimflam can affect that right). He cites three academics - Mustard, Lott and Kleck. Kleck, despite his also-ran billing in that article, is a respected scholar whose work survives peer review and whose conclusions probably can be taken as the truth as far as the US is concerned.

John Lott, on the other hand, is an "academic" of the worst kind. He works for the American Enterprise Institute, a rightwing think-tank. He is most famous for his work on the statistical basis for gun rights, is associated with the NRA, and also for his repeated problems with the truth. The Australian academic Tim Lambert has a blog that details the amazing amount of deception Lott is involved with which can be found here , suffice to say that anything his name is associated with has to be looked at with deep skepticism, especially the Lott/Mustard theory which is discussed here

Of course, this fits neatly into the whole Telegraph campaign which has, since the Tony Martin case, seen the worst of British journalism engaged in an effort to impose political and legal changes where none is required; in the process thoroughly confusing the public and leading to at least one person being incarcerated because of that confusion.

I should point out that there is much valid criticism of the system of firearm legislation in this country, criticism that does not rely on lies and distortions, and I feel that there is a lot of merit in the idea that members of the public have the right to possess weapons, including firearms, for their own defence
 
El Tejon,

i) the transportation of convicts to the colonies was a sentence and was not that indicative of crime;

ii) of course the increase in crime, throughout much of the Western world, is because of increasing wealth and other changes in society. Or is it just down to gun bans?
 
ag, there are crime waves throughout English history, in poor economic times, in good economic times.

It is odd that you are using good economic times to rationalize crime. Here in the States people use bad economic times to rationalize crime. However, you use funny electricity and DVDs as well.

So, regarding the Australians, you are saying they are all innocent? Hey, I hear that ALL the time! :D
 
El Tejon,

There are crime waves - but they have varying reasons (or did sword, bow and axe bans lead to all of them as Munday would have us believe?). The rise in wealth over a hundred years, together with a decline in punishment, has made theft worthwhile as an occupation - that seems obvious to me.
 
Speaking of convicts and colonies:

I'm still angry at the Brits for sending Australia all the fun-loving criminals and sticking us Americans with the Puritans!!
 
spartacus,

It worked out ok. After all, it's easier to teach a Puritan criminal values than a criminal Puritan ones.

We may have the hardest working criminals on earth. :evil:
 
Agricola, I am astonished by the fervor with which you defend whatever, if any, gun rights that you believe Englishmen have, or should have.
 
For whatever it's worth;

Agricola is a British Police Officer and has a first hand view of the crime situation over there. His views are worth consideration, even if you disagree with them. Solutions to crime that will work in the US may, or may not, work in GB. However, I do still believe that private gun ownership IS a deterrent to crime ANYWHERE, and those who try to trade freedom for safety will lose both and deserve neither.
 
SMLE - and Agricola - sorry for being snippy.

I am constantly amazed by European attitudes of skepticism toward trusting their fellow man while apparently placing infinite trust in government. Crime prevention policies in the UK have apparently not been highly successful in recent decades, but the government's response seems to be 'more of the same' and then some.

I simply can't fathom the concept that my government would discourage self defense, nor can I understand embracing the elements of a police state in the hope that it might yield me some small extra degree of safety. The UK's experience with violent crime should lead to some logical conclusions. For a crude Yank like me, the conclusion is that Englishmen should stand up and retake their country from the thugs and criminals. But the people of the UK appear to have drawn the conclusion that sacrificing more personal rights, liberties, and security wil result in a better society.
 
gc70,

No offence taken. My purpose since coming to TFL those many moons ago was not for any polemical reasons but to try and correct the mass of what passes for information that you recieve on the UK. As I said at the bottom, there are issues that require discussion - but the likes of Munday, Lott and Malcolm would rather throw up a whole load of crap than deal with them.
 
Agricola,
I know our societies are different so I am curious as to how you might respond to GC-70's last post?

Do you see a soulution to the high violent crime problem in Britan?

What are your thoughts on the prohibition of arms by private citizens in Britan?

Just curious! :)
 
British journalism engaged in an effort to impose political and legal changes where none is required
:what:

All debate about UK defense laws and crime statistics aside. Do you really believe no changes are needed, and that it is ok that the UK has banned civilian ownership of handguns??
 
Chaz,

Firstly, the idea that there is a serious violent crime problem in Britain is a chimera created by journalists and Tory politicians, at least in this country.

Of course, we have violent crime at levels similar to the rest of the Western world - but what enables these people to make an issue of it currently are the two different ways in which crime in the UK is recorded - the British Crime Survey and Police Recorded Crime. The BCS is one of the world largest criminal justice surveys, but it only asks people if they have been victims of crime and does not cover everything (murders and rapes are excluded, though sexual offences have periodically been included in linked studies). The Police Recorded statistics are basically just the crimes that have been reported to the Police - however, since 1997 there have been two major changes in the way these crimes have been collated, which has had the effect of pushing up certain crime categories by a remarkable amount. It is these rises, which are almost certainly systemic rather than actual, which Lott and others have presented as evidence that gun control, and particular the 1997/8 bans, have caused the rise; an idea which is utterly wrong, as anyone who is from the UK would have realised.

With regards to the bans, its worth pointing out that each ban has taken place as a direct result of a tragedy - the killing of three unarmed Policemen in London led to the 1968 Act (and incidentally almost brought back the death penalty), Hungerford led to the 1988 Act and, of course, Dunblane led to the 1997 and 1998 Acts. It could be said that nefarious forces were waiting for these chances to come along, but one must remember that politics in this country is remarkably quick-fix oriented, and they are much more pieces of hastily-thought out legislation than intentionally thought out, well designed firearm-deniers.

An example of this is that, at the stroke of a Home Secretary's pen and with no further consultation of Parliament, all of the firearms legislation as it currently stands could be made into shall-issue licences for almost any firearm.

Secondly, and personally speaking, I have no problem with people owning anything, as long as it doesnt impinge on my or societies wellbeing (ie they are law-abiding); and indeed since we are pretty much at the last-step-but-one on the firearms legislation route, it could well be soon that it could start to be repealed, at least in terms of home defence (we are probably some way from CCW however). Of course, criminal use of firearms should be dealt with by the Courts extremely harshly.

That aside, what I do object to is the way in which, rather than dealing with what problems there are (such as the demonization of guns, the immense bureaucracy of the whole firearms licencing area), the foriegn and domestic media has sought to push forwards a wholly incorrect view (the above, combined with the self-defence issue post-Martin) which is so clearly wrong it takes an amateur five minutes to thoroughly demolish it on an internet message board.
 
Hear, hear. As much as I may vehemently disagree with agricola on some issues, you are going to have to look hard to find a more concise analysis. Not bad for a Rozzer :).

Got any pointers for further reading? Especially regarding the potential (yes I know it won't happen but I'm curious) for shall issue permits.
 
Agricola,

Thanks for the response. I see that the media world-wide is still a self serving beast (I.e. if it bleeds, it leads, etc.)

I am encouraged to hear that an Englishmans ability to defend themselves in thier homes is being reconsidered. IMHO that is a right that should be afforded to all humankind.

Once again thanks for the well thought out and intelligent response. Be careful on the beat! :)
 
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