They just don't make 'em like they used to

[Azrael256]

So the professor teaching my Civil War class decided to haul a few of his guns down from his office for our class the other day. His only Civil War era gun (at least one that might have seen use then) is a Navy Model, but he passed around his Springfield 1873 to give everybody an idea of how the weapons of the time felt in the hands. We also got to dry-fire his Winchester '73 because... well, because it's a Winchester '73. Mind you, all of these guns are the real deal. No reproductions.

While handling these most impressive pieces of history, I was struck by something. That giant Springfield still has a heavy, solid feel to it. I'm willing to bet that I could load it up and start blasting targets at 1000 yards with nothing more than a patch to clear the barrel. The Winchester works smoothly, and it too is nice and solid. I would be comfortable popping in a few cartridges right now and having a shooting contest from horseback on the east lawn. The administration might frown on that, but they don't know how to have fun.

So, why don't I get that feeling when handling new guns? Sure, ARs look cool, and AKs will take punishment like no other rifle, but they just don't have that feel to them. I can't pick up an AR and just know that I'm wielding a real weapon. If that Springfield misfires, it will make a dandy club, and that enormous broadsword of a bayonet is terrifying even when it's in my own hands. I just don't feel that when I pick up a modern gun. Even a tried-and-true bolt gun doesn't feel that good. Sure, a Remington 700 is a fine rifle, but it feels so dainty and delicate compared to a rough and ready Winchester '73.

This doesn't mean I'm getting old, does it?

 

[ArmedBear]

One of them is built to take years of daily field abuse; the other one is built to be light enough to hike around with in the mountains comfortably for a day or two and take a couple of shots.

A lot of those old Springfields are still usable, BTW. Impressive, really.

Modern steel is better and more consistent, so you need less of it, even for enormous magnums.

Strength vs. portability is a choice.

If you want a heavy modern rifle, check out the Robinson Arms M96.

Also, Remington will happily sell you a 700 in .308 that weighs close to 11 lb. with a scope and mounts, if you want one.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_VLS_specs.asp

Expectations are interesting. My 9.5 lb. (iron sights) sidelock muzzleloader feels "just right", but my 8.5 lb. (with scope) Weatherby .30-06 feels a bit heavy. My 7.5 lb. 870 feels light at the trap range and bulky when shooting at upland birds.

I love old guns!

 

[Chipperman]

More recent rifles that give that feeling:
1. M1 Garand
2. SKS
3. M1A

Most of the rifles since then are from the "lighter is better genre".

Possible exceptions are the G3 and FAL.

 

[redneck2]

Look at old cars. The bumper from a '53 Buick weighs more than some new cars.

Then again, a '53 Buick got 10 mpg, rode like a log wagon, had no A/C, and had to have the oil changed every 1,000 miles

The "modern" equivalent of the Springfield would probably be a '98 Mauser or Springfield '03. Also the M1/M14 was used until mid-60's or later

Remember, wars back then were fought by two sides lining up and blasting away at each other.

How would you like to have been in the Civil War??? Marching thru Georgia in mid-summer. Wool uniform. 12# gun. Heavy backpack. Shoes that don't fit. Walking for days and days uphill/downhill and thru swamps to get a few hundred miles

 

[Manedwolf]

How would you like to have been in the Civil War??? Marching thru Georgia in mid-summer. Wool uniform. 12# gun. Heavy backpack. Shoes that don't fit. Walking for days and days uphill/downhill and thru swamps to get a few hundred miles

If you're around Gettysburg when the re-enactors do their thing, there's generally sorts around that will give you some hardtack and boiled, rough-ground coffee to let you see what "dinner" was usually like..if you even had that.

Of course, ship's biscuits with a free maggot weren't much better. 19th century military life was decidedly unglamorous for the enlisted men.

And I definitely wouldn't have wanted to get hit with one of those minie balls. Ouch!

 

[Azrael256]

Marching thru Georgia in mid-summer. Wool uniform. 12# gun.

It might be kinda fun to try for an hour or so, especially if I get to shoot the gun I think I'll pass on the free maggots, but thanks for offering. I don't so much mind the marching a few hundred miles across the continent part. I've been wanting to check out that Appalachian Trail for quite some time now. I just don't much care for tight shoes and incoming artillery.

 

[hillbilly]

Read the book "Confederates in the Attic" for a look at what a really hardcore re-enactor goes through to get his "period rush" as it's called.

Sleeping in a swamp with no bug spray and no mosquito netting....yeesh....

hillbilly

 

[hillbilly]

redneck2, you forgot something on your list.

Add "suffering from explosive, bloody diarrhea every few minutes" and then you'll have an authentic Civil War experience........

hillbilly

 

[Azrael256]

Wow, hillbilly... Uhhh, thanks for that one.

 

[Manedwolf]

Read the book "Confederates in the Attic" for a look at what a really hardcore re-enactor goes through to get his "period rush" as it's called.

Sleeping in a swamp with no bug spray and no mosquito netting....yeesh....

hillbilly

A couple years ago, some idjit at Gettysburg lent a gun to a friend, and "forgot" he had loaded it with a REAL Minie ball and charge. (!)... and someone out on the battlefield actually got hit with it, thankfully only a graze, or they'd likely be seriously dead. Those things tended to do stuff like explode a femur into fragments or cause most of a head to be lost. That's a little more realism than I'd want.

Oh, yeah, and said gun owner was banned forever from any re-enactments.

 

[Manedwolf]

It might be kinda fun to try for an hour or so, especially if I get to shoot the gun I think I'll pass on the free maggots, but thanks for offering. I don't so much mind the marching a few hundred miles across the continent part. I've been wanting to check out that Appalachian Trail for quite some time now. I just don't much care for tight shoes and incoming artillery.

If someone has a replica Sharps carbine, try that out. Those are fun, and not bad at all to handle and carry, either.

 

[Gordon Fink]

How would you like to have been in the Civil War??? Marching thru Georgia in mid-summer. Wool uniform. 12# gun. Heavy backpack …

What was the typical load-out weight for a fully equipped soldier during the Civil War? I expect it was less than the 80–90 lbs. carried by modern soldiers. Another interesting comparison: the plate armor and other gear of a late-medieval knight weighed only about 40–50 lbs., if I recall correctly.

~G. Fink

 

[toolmaker]

Saw "art" once that looked like explosive bloody diarrhea. But it had a lot of bluish colors too....

 

[phoglund]

I suspect "bluish" colors are not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[dasmi]

So, why don't I get that feeling when handling new guns? Sure, ARs look cool, and AKs will take punishment like no other rifle, but they just don't have that feel to them. I can't pick up an AR and just know that I'm wielding a real weapon.

That is why I like buying milsurp stuff so much.
That, and the price, of course.

 

[Javelin Man]

Gettysburg

A couple years ago, some idjit at Gettysburg lent a gun to a friend, and "forgot" he had loaded it with a REAL Minie ball and charge. (!)... and someone out on the battlefield actually got hit with it, thankfully only a graze, or they'd likely be seriously dead.

As I recall, it was a Frenchman visiting and a friend gave him a revolver. The man had been target shooting with it and the last ball didn't make it out of the barrel. The Frenchman checked the action and the cylinder, but didn't check the barrel. First load was at about 15 feet during a cavalry battle. He didn't use raised elevation for a safety.

I was on the other end of the battlefield that day and didn't see the actual shooting. I was on the only six-horse hitch that week and was able to go forward during Pickett's Charge.

 

[Sam]

What you feel is life. Wood and steel and brass have life in them that come from contact with the hands of an artisan. They live and breath much as we do.

Aluminum and plastic have no life, because they have never felt the touch of a hand while "growing up". Cold and impersonal.

Sam