Thinking about reloading 7.62x54R

[TauZero]

I am just starting to look into reloading. This means i'm confused a lot and overwhelmed with info. So i'll start with a basic question.

I've read everywhere about how much money one can save by reloading. I currently spend about 18 cents per round or 7.62x54R. I went to the Midway site and found that bullets cost $60 for 100 and brass is $130 for 100, so with primer and powder, a round would cost about $2 each.

Where do the savings come in? 18 cents versus $2 is ridiculous.
What am i missing?

 

[snuffy]

Your 18 cent shells are most likely mil surp in berdan primed brass, maybe steel cases? Now go price some American factory loads. $40.00 a box of twenty is not unusual. There's your direct comparison!

Now for your reloads. That $130.00 brass is reloadable more than once. If processed properly, you can expect 10 reloads from each case. That takes to cost of the brass down to 13 cents apiece. Then the bullets you listed are probably the normal for soft points, there are cheaper bullets out there.

Your start-up costs for a loading set-up will set you back around $200.00. It will be a while before you see cost savings. Some of us never see cost savings, we're tool junkies, never satisfied. If you're getting into this to save money, forget it. You may shoot for less for each round, but you WILL shoot more total shots for the same $. Besides the satisfaction of doing it yourself is priceless!

 

[BullitHolz]

18 cents per round? what brand are you shooting?

Your $2 per round cost factors in the brass that you will need to put together your first batch of loads. Of course that brass will be reused in future batches of "reloads" so it's cost is a one time, depending on how much you shoot and work the brass, expense. The actual cost of a reloaded round would be computed on all of the "expendables" and for most of us it does provide a savings.

Unfortunately reloading to save money really doesn't because most who get into it actually spend just as much. The big difference is that we get to shoot a lot MORE rounds than those folks that are buying factory ammunition.

 

[ir3e971]

If you buy Wolf Gold, (approx 15 bucks per 20) you can shoot it. Then reload the brass because it is boxer primed. Same goes for PVI Partisan (probably butched the spelling)

That is where I got a lot of my original brass.

Of you buy surplus, the brass is berdan primed and you wont be able to reload it. easily that is.

 

[Hillbilly Jim]

Wow I would love some 18 cent surplus. 60/100 bullets does not sound right as i just bought some for a lot less. Something like 18 dollars/100 for bullets. Winchester makes softpoint ammo which is very accurate and great for reloading at not much more than Wolf.
Check your cost again.
Hillbilly Jim

 

[Jimfern]

reloading pricing

I'd also go back and look at your bullet choices. For .311 sized bullets, you should expect to pay around $22-30 per 100 if you are trying to compare apples to apples with your 18 cent rounds. If you buy bullets, powder and primers in bulk, you'll "save" even more. That is, if you stay with the price per round count.

BTW, I haven't had much luck with 125 grain bullets in my 7.62 Russian or 303 British, as far as accuracy goes, so I'd recommend you stay with the heavier bullets if you decide to roll your own.

 

[TauZero]

Thanks to all for the info. Like i said, i just started to look into this and the "straight scoop" is good info to have.

My main reason for reloading is that my range (damn them) just banned steel cased ammo. I only shoot milsurp, and now have nothing shoot!!

So now i HAVE to look to handloads or give up...
really pisses me off...

Several people seemed surprised at the price of surplus. Here's a couple of sites that sell at about 15 cents a round. Shipping increases the cost, of course.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=6991
300 rounds for $45.

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...se,-440-rd-tins-/cPath/12_42/products_id/1789
880 rounds for $139.

 

[Larry E]

They banned ALL steel cased rounds? It'd seem that requiring people to pick up their fired cases would solve any problem.

Chambers in military rifles chambered for rimmed cases are generally cut to generous dimensions, and that's being generous. If you FL size your fired cases you'll likely have a case life of one firing unless you use a custom FL die made to fit your rifle's chamber. If you load to moderate pressures, and either neck size them or set an FL die to not move the shoulder back case life should be 15 or 20 firings. That reduces the cost of cases to virtually nothing in the long run.

I don't know what bullets you're finding at $60/100, even handmade match bullets don't cost that much. Midway's latest catalog shows Sierra 174 gr Matchking bullets at ~$35/100. Look for bullets for the 7.7 Japanese/.303 British, they'll work in your 7.62x54R. You could always start bullet casting too....

 

[TauZero]

Well, like i said, i don't know what i'm doing. I went to the Midway site and found some bullets close to 7.62 in size (.308). I thought this looked pretty good:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=793524

on sale $29 for 50.

My fault for a bad explanation. The range banned steel (bimetal) jacketed and steel cored bullets. They don't care about the cartridges. !!still pissed off!!

 

[Ergosphere]

You want .311" bullets, not .308.

 

[Rmac58]

I have much milsurp in 7.62x54, close to .18 each. Berdan primed, brass case. To me it is not cost effective to reload.
I have a few weapons, I do not reload anything, yet keep all brass, except from semi's.

 

[rhubarb]

I had a 91/30 that shot pretty good with milsurp. I got rid of it before I started reloading. I've often wondered what it would do with good handloads.

Pat's has some .310 147gr FMJBT bullets for $80/1000:
http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.htm

Let's see, add some of their surplus 846 at about $0.12 per and a primer for $0.03 and you can shoot for only $0.23/round. You would have milsurp accuracy with only a few hours investment at a mere nickel a round over milsurp. And you'd learn the pride of desperately searching for that last piece of brass.

 

[FieroCDSP]

+1 on the neck sizing. I get three loads out of my brass with FL sizing. I think I need to get some head-space guages.

With hunting season coming up, look for your local huntin' stores to have a Winchester ammo sale (don't they all this time of year?). Buy up a few boxes and shoot them. Get your measurements on the groups, then load and shoot your handloads for a comparison. I like my handloads.

You get your brass and a the satisfaction of seeing your own ammo out-perform the factory stuff.

As for bullets, you have to watch Midway like a hawk and have a few hundred bucks waitin around. I picked up a few boxes of 303 174gr's last year with their blemished bullets sale. The savings were insane!!!! Hornaday bullets, 99.9% near perfect, at a third of the regular price.

Opportunity+Instinct= Profit. Or in this case, savings.

 

[35 Whelen]

Tau,
Shop around for components. Check this out:
Graf's .311" bullets They're not cheap, but 500 of them are only $85.45.

Here's another place that has a good buy on .311" bullets: Golden West Brass

Someone else hit the nail on the head regarding brass; buy the Prvi ammo here: AIM Surplus Prvi ammo for $11.25 per 20 and you get to keep the brass!

To really save money shooting my MilSurps, I cast my own bullets. I love doing it and I use wheelweights so the bullets are essentially free except for the 2¢ gas check. I also use a fairly reduced load so I have only about 4 - 5¢ in powder. A primer runs about 2¢, so it winds up costing me about 9¢ per round after the brass is paid for.

Good luck!
35W

 

[Koveras]

Have you slugged the bore on your rifle(s)? The MN 91 and derivatives have bore sizes all over the place, and you may need either .308 or .310-.311 diameter bullets for best results.

You might also want to think about cast bullets if you are just wanting ammo to practice with at the range.

 

[SCPigpen]

Wideners has .311 FMJ bullets: $40/500
http://www.wideners.com/

Good for 762x54, 7.7Jap, .303 & they can be sized down to .308 in a pinch.

You wont save much, just shoot better, more accurate ammo thats not corrosive.

 

[24kshooter]

You are picking the wrong caliber to use as an example - you might as well use a Weatherby cartridge as the cost of brass for 54R is abnormally high. Reloads are superior in this caliber as your choice of 308bullets is wide. Mid range powder - Varget / 4895 and large rifle primers are all you need to add to you brass and bullet.

 

[35 Whelen]

Wideners has .311 FMJ bullets: $40/500

Yup, those are a really good buy, but they're steel core which he says aren't allowed at his range.

My fault for a bad explanation. The range banned steel (bimetal) jacketed and steel cored bullets. They don't care about the cartridges.

Ahh! Then things might not be so bad. Widner's has this ammunition and they state there's "NO STEEL anywhere in this ammo". Sportsmans Guide has the same thing only a little bit cheaper, and you can normally find internet coupons from them that allow free shipping.

35W

 

[xsquidgator]

Reload, and consider casting your bullets too (you can scrounge for scrap lead like a lot of us do, or you can pay for lead. Scrounging up free lead is fun on its own the same way getting free range pick up brass is fun).

Casting my own bullets and reloading (using neck sizing die for the bolt action rifles, so as to extend the life of the brass), I can shoot my milsurp rifles for 8 cents a round, which is what the powder and primers cost. I'm really getting into enjoying my K98 every range trip with my cast lead rounds (slowed down to 1400 fps). I wouldn't enjoy that rifle nearly as much if I had to feed it with commercial ammo (same is true in spades for my M44).



If you get into reloading and you actually save money, you will probably be the first person in history to accomplish this. But, like just about everyone who does it, you will shoot a LOT LOT more for the same $. Let's look at consumable costs, and figure that yes you'll have to spend up to a couple hundred $ to buy a press, dies, and other startup tools and equipment. Ok, so maybe for the cost of a case and a half of 9mm. Do that and don't look back. Now, on to the long term savings based just on the consumables.

I wouldn't shoot anything but .22LR if I had to buy commercial ammo, and I would hardly ever shoot my pistols, especially the 45 and 357. Reloading my own homemade cast bullets though, well. Instead of paying $30 for 100 45ACP rounds at walmart, how does a cost of $4 per 100 sound for 230 grain LRN rounds? How would you like to shoot 9mm, 38, 357, and pretty much any other handgun round for $4 per 100?

If you buy your own bullets to reload instead of casting them, it will cost more than this, but you should still be able to get the cost per round way way down, especially if you use lead bullets instead of plated or jacketed. I haven't priced them in a while but if I recall correctly lead 230 grain .452" bullets might be 10 cents each, so you could still make 100 of those for about$14 per 100. Still about half what the cheap stuff at walmart would cost you.

For me, the best part is that I don't ever have to run to the store to buy ammo before going to the range. If I'm a little low on ammo, I just spend a couple of hours in the evenings the week before and make all I want. I really like that part of it.

 

[TauZero]

Lead bullets in a centerfire?

I thought the reason jacketed ammo was invented was that lead melts in the barrel due to friction. Isn't there a problem using lead fired through a high powered rifle barrel?

Sorry for the stupid questions, but what i read and what's reality don't always seem to match up.

 

[NuJudge]

Minor problems with Lead bullets in Centerfire Rifle

I shoot lots of Lead cast bullets. For low performance loads, which maximize economy, a lubricated Lead bullet .001" or .002" larger than groove diameter gives good results up to about 1200 fps.

For higher velocities, bullets will need a specialized and high quality lubricant, a bullet design compatible with the rifling, cartridge and velocity, slower powders will help, and a shallow copper cup on the base of the bullet (a 'gas check') for structural support. With a smooth bore with sharp rifling, 2200fps has been no problem for me, without leading.

There are a number of websites devoted to cast rifle bullets, including high performance loads, especially this one:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

Back before cheap 7.62x54R surplus was available, I reloaded Russian-made ammo using Berdan primers. I used a lot of it in an SVT-40, because I did not want to be tearing it down to clean out corrosive salts. In those loads, I used cast bullets. I'm still reloading cast bullets in 7.62x54R Berdan brass, but now it's Albanian and really early Bulgarian brass, because they use the only berdan primer size I still have.

 

[35 Whelen]

Regarding cast bullets in a rifle, heck yes they work!



I have tons more targets like these. I have little use for jacketed bullets in milsurps anymore unless I'm shooting a High Power match with my K-31. I even use the cast bullets for deer hunting.

I cast all my bullets with straight wheelweights. Low velocity bullets are air-cooled, while those for higher velocity (i.e.- rifle bullets) are water quenched. I use Rooster Red hard lube for all my bullets and leading is rarely a problem. When it is, I'll use PSB shotshell buffer as a filler between the powder and bullet and this always eliminates leading.
I really enjoy bullet casting and for milsurps they are the only way to go.

35W

 

[Clark]

15 years ago, I was buying surplus ammo by the case.

Then I just pulled the cheap bullets for handloads to get on the paper.

Then I just used good bullets.

The bullets I like for 91/30 is the Sierra .311" dia. 180 gr. SPT Pro-Hunter 2310

I push them to 2850 fps.

 

[lee n. field]

. I went to the Midway site and found that bullets cost $60 for 100 and brass is $130 for 100, so with primer and powder, a round would cost about $2 each.

Where do the savings come in? 18 cents versus $2 is ridiculous.
What am i missing?

Savings comes from reusing the most expensive part multiple times.

And just wait until you get into casting.....

And you should be able to find brass cheaper than that.

Yup, here you go. $40/100.

 

[dmftoy1]

FWIW when I started reloading 7.62 x54R I hit the same problem with high priced brass. I did two things:

1. Bought 100 rounds of privi from ammoman.com (@ $15 per box)
2. Someone here pointed me Graf's which had brass for $40 per 100.

http://www.grafs.com/product/194801

Looks like they're out of stock right now but they usually have had it in stock when I've checked back.

I'm loading using 2400 under cast boolits with a gas check and I can push them up to about 1600fps with no leading at all. It's nice because they shoot to point of aim with the rear sight set to 500 (target at 100 yards) If I want a jacketed bullet I've had good luck with the Hornady .312 150 grain bullets. IMHO the bigger the bullet the better for Mosins UNLESS you've got a Finn.

Good luck!!

Regards,
Dave