thinking of switching bullet weight for next years f class matches

[LAL357]

i've been shooting 155 gr. amaxs (gun likes them) in my local clubs f class matches (300 yds) and they do very good. but noticed this year when i shot my first out to 1000 yds i had to wait for the wind flags to drop to keep the wind from pushing them around. also got really bad when i shot the in a match that went out to 700 yds the wind was a full value wind but would change direction at will. i solved this by adjusting the scope for the direction it was mainly blowing and using a hold over for when it changed the other direction.
this got me to thinking about trying a heavier bullet i'm thinking somewhere in the 175-185 range with 175 being more to mind. so my question is for you who shoot those grain heads out to 1000 yds do they buck the wind fairly good? i know the higher the b.c the better and will run the gambit of different makers to see what my rifle likes and doesnt like for powder i prefer varget and have good luck with it but can change to others.

the rifle is :
savage lrpv
shilen select match barrel 1-10t bull barrel 30" long

cases will be lapua and primers will vary since i swap primers till i find a combination that works.

 

[blarby]

If you like the AMAX- they are also offered in a 178, and a 208.

I dont shoot a lot of paper at those distances, but I can relate a little of my own empirical data :

We get some very, very serious shear winds in the valleys here on the outskirts of eugene.

I like to shoot 250-300 yard pops across these valleys for fun about once a month.

When I do, the 178gr AMAX performs very very well, even in the most direct winds.

If you are shooting F class- im certain you can wring even more out of this bullet than I can- and we are using the same twist rate and just 2" difference in BBL length.

 

[Howard Roark]

The heavier bullets do have less drift than lighter ones. I would suggest trying Berger VLDs. You will find that they are a more consistent bullet. In weight, length and jacket thickness.

 

[MtnCreek]

Try a box of 155gr Lapua Scenar's.

 

[Jim Watson]

The 175 gr SMK is kind of baseline for .308 Long Range, but there are other options.

My current load is with the 155 Scenars.
A friend went the other way and shoots 185 Bergers.

No reason not to try a box of 178 Amax.

 

[cacoltguy]

You really can't go wrong with 175 gr. Sierra Matchkings. I tried the AMAX bullets and never found them to group any better than the Sierras. Bullets with a secant ogive like the AMAX's, Berger VLD's etc., are more fussy and sensitive to seating depth. They like to be seated closer to the lands. Depending on your rifle you may not be able to seat them close enough and keep them magazine length. Furthermore, as the throat of your barrel erodes over time you have to keep chasing it if you want to maintain that precise seating depth. If dealing with all of this doesn't bother you, then you might see some benefits of the secant design (flatter trajectory, slightly higher BC and "maybe" slightly better groupings (if your rifle likes them). Personally I just shoot the 175 gr. Sierras and be done with it. The tangent ogive shape is much more forgiving to seating depth. Good performance, good groups and a very long positive track record of success in long range matches.

 

[LAL357]

i tried the 155 senars the rifle did care for them that much more than the amax's.i may try them again but seat them out farther like i had to do with my 6.5creedmoor (.120 off the lands) my biggest thing that comes to mind is bucking the wind alittle better for the farther ranges. i'm trying to keep it in the 175-185 range just havent loaded them before .

 

[cacoltguy]

Hey, it can't hurt to work up some loads with 175 gr. Sierras, 178 gr. Amax's, or whatever else and see what shoots the best out of your gun at ranges up to 1000 yards. I went with the Sierras because they just flat out work. I messed around trying to get better results from AMAX and the Lapua Scenars but never got any better groupings and in the end all I accomplished was to make the barrel of my rifle that much closer to being wore out in the process. The AMAX bullets certainly have the ability to shoot a little flatter and be somewhat less affected by the wind, it all depends on whether or not you can get them to shoot good out of your rifle. In terms of inherent accuracy there is little to no difference IMO but you are probably going to have to spend more time tweaking you load and COAL to get that accuracy out of the AMAX, Scenar or VLD's.

 

[LAL357]

your on the tweaking for the vld's and amax's one thing thats holds me back alittle is the fact that i can only shoot out to 300yds at our club range so i wont know what they will do at farther ranges until i get to shoot in a match elsewhere. i rely on a ballistic program on my phone to give me the dope i need for longer ranges its been pretty close with my other loading once i input the the load info.
think i'll go pick up some to day and get started running the gambit of powder loads to see if i can get one it likes. thanks for the input guys the fun part is i'm also going to do this (try new bullets) in my 6.5 creedmoor thinking some smk's for it this time .

 

[Hoser]

There was some discussion on limiting the bullet weight for F-TR several months ago.

A large majority of the shooters were against it. I would bet within a couple years there will be a cap on bullet weight. In my experience with the NRA Rulebook committee for F-Class, thats how they work.

If you do try something else heavier, I would not get too attached to it.

For right now, shoot the Lapua 155s as fast as you can and still keep .5 MOA accuracy.

 

[rehorne]

Don't shoot paper at those ranges. We shoot steel out to 1100. I use the 175 SMK's and a healthy dose of RL15 in LC LR cases. As long as I read the wind correctly I do pretty well with that combo. Love to hear the BOOM and then wait for it, wait for it, wait for it.......DING

 

[Hoser]

Kinda hard to shoot an F-Class match on steel targets...

 

[LAL357]

i've heard the same rumor picked up some 178 amax to try for now

 

[BullfrogKen]

So, you shoot well at 300 yards, but are more affected by wind at the mid-range distances and beyond?

Aren't we all.


If you're going to shoot 155 grainers at 1,000 yards, you need to go with a low drag, higher B.C. bullet.

I usually go with the 175 grain Sierra and be done with it. You'll still need to know how to dope wind well, but you'll have an easier job than trying to do it with 155 gr A-Max's.

 

[LAL357]

adjusting for the wind i can do i'm just thinking about going up to a heavier bullet so i wont have to adjust as much. thats what the off season is for testing new things isnt that why you are shooting a 175 instead of the 155's?
i learned about adjusting for the wind when i shot imsha open class after shooting with a 357maximum @ 200 yds you get to know kentucky windage good then i switch to a 30 herret made it alot easier.

 

[BullfrogKen]

It's not just about knowing how many minutes to put on your rifle for the predominant wind condition - i.e. adjusting for the wind. Once you get out to the ranges where wind really begins to matter, you need to learn to dope the wind and manage it.

Here's what I do.

Even at 600 yards I'm constantly looking at the wind conditions. I look at the range flags, and look at what the mirage is doing through my spotting scope. I'll make my wind call, put that dope on the rifle, and take the shot. Immediately after I take the shot, I'll look right back through my spotting scope to see if the wind changed from what I saw right before I took the shot. "Is it the same or has it changed?"

I'll call that shot, and if the wind was the same I should be on call. If it changed during my shot, I'll call that value and I should expect my shot to place somewhere near where my call was plus the change in value.


And when the wind is blowing I'll do the same for each and every shot. When I don't I get caught in a wind shift. Until you learn to dope and manage wind you'll struggle with it. Especially at 1,000 yards.

It takes time to learn. And the only way you learn it is to go do it, and to watch others do it. I've waited out wind conditions during a match when I had the time to do it. But there's nothing wrong with using a match to improve yourself. Dope what you see the wind is doing each shot, and put that value on your rifle. Take the shot and look back through your spotting scope asking, "is it the same or has it changed?"


I'm in agreement with cacoltguy regards to bullets with a secant ogive. The Sierra 175 gr MatchKings are a lot less fussy, and also cost less.


Edited to add - Even if you choose a faster, better long range caliber, at 1,000 yards you're going to have to learn to manage wind better than doping the predominant wind condition and using Kentucky windage for when it changes. One way to learn this is to take your .223 rifle out to your 300 yard matches during windy days. You ought to be able to shoot all 10s and Xs with it at that distance. Watch what the wind is doing to you.

When it blows you from 9 o'clock in the 10 ring to 3 o'clock, you've learned something about the wind. Don't be satisfied being happy that it was still a 10. Watch the wind and see what it's doing to you. Call that wind value, and put it on your rifle. During all twenty shots you might even have to constantly add and subtract windage to the rifle each and every shot. That's the only way you'll begin to learn about the wind.

The best way is to watch a hard holder who's good at managing wind in a match. Watch him read and dope the wind. Look at the wind through your spotting scope so you see what he sees. Count the value he puts on his rifle. If he puts two minutes on, remember what he thinks a two minute value wind condition looks like. Then as he shots, watch through the scope and ask yourself, "Is the wind condition the same as when he doped it, or has it changed?" If it changed - and that happens on windy days, it'll pick up, let off and even switch direction - you call where his shot will go. See what the wind did to him when the target comes back up for score.