thinking of trading my j-frame in for a kahr. thoughts?
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Do you go back to the centennial because the guns you get every year to replace it just don't shoot as well? Or do you go back to it because it is easier to carry a smaller gun? I suspect it is the latter.
I disagree. Even a primer jumping the pocket can lock up a revolver tight. That problem would be easily dealt with in an auto. A small rock, or even one of the small pieces in that lockwork can do the same. Most revolvers are very reliable but to say they are so much more reliable than modern autos is a fallacy. But if revolvers, like you say, only malfunction when it is convenient and not in emergencies then I agree they are better.
ShadyScott999
Member
Either you are a giant, or you have never "tried" to pocket carry the guns listed. The j frame will not be obsolete in the foreseeable future. If you are a giant, I apologize. Please don't grind my bones to make your bread.
So both of you didn't bother to read the posts where I explained that the snubby was easier to pocket carry (In fact I never once said I would recommend those pistols for pocket carry) but the other guns I listed had every other advantage over the snub. Try reading a few posts instead of just quoting someone and spouting off without the facts. You guys may not know it, but pocket carry isn't the only method of carrying a pistol.
rellascout
member
It is certainly true of Kahrs. They have a less than stellar reputation. They are very hit or miss. Some work just fine others are not right and never will be. Almost every shop I frequent has a Kahr or two that if you know the guys there they will tell you is a lemon.... which is why it is there in the first place and why it remains.
I also noticed you did not list a Kahr... LOL
ShadyScott999
Member
From the OPer...
Maybe I did read the OP's question. My post was in jest.
Maybe I did read the OP's question. My post was in jest.
Don't do it. J-frames are much more reliable. I have gone down this road before and went back to the j-frame. The Kahr is made with tight tolerances (which is great for accuracy) but it makes it more likely to jam (due to user error...which is likely to occur in emergency situations). "Five for sure" beats "6 plus 1 most of the time".
Carry a j-frame and back that up with an LCP with spare mag. That should be enough firepower for 99.9999% of situations.
Look at this this way, BOTH revolvers and autos can jam. But if you take 100 revolvers and 100 Kahrs (which is the OP's original question)....you will see that the Kahrs infinitely jam more often than the revolvers. Again, this is not a revolver vs. auto comment...but a revolver vs. Kahr.
Carry a j-frame and back that up with an LCP with spare mag. That should be enough firepower for 99.9999% of situations.
Look at this this way, BOTH revolvers and autos can jam. But if you take 100 revolvers and 100 Kahrs (which is the OP's original question)....you will see that the Kahrs infinitely jam more often than the revolvers. Again, this is not a revolver vs. auto comment...but a revolver vs. Kahr.
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Yeah, you hit on the head. I really thing the problems Kahr has had is attributed to the polymer framed guns much more so than the steel framed. I would still love to get my hands on a K9 or MK9. I wonder why Kahr had never done a alloy framed model?
rellascout
member
I agree with that 100%. The K9 or the MK9 are much more reliable guns but they are ridiculously over priced IMHO.
Yeah, like that happens a lot. In the years I've been shooting, I've never seen a revolver ever fail to fire (or even have a misfire). Mine are match-flawless with thousands of high-power rounds through them, many in timed competition. I've had an H&K and a Glock both fail on me. The H&K was difficult to clear, the Glock 19 just needed a cycle. The reliability argument is why revolvers remain viable alternatives to autos. They have less firepower, but they are supremely dependable.
smallbore
Member
Kahrs are nice but way overpriced. You could get yourself a Sig P239 for about the same price.
I don't know why but clearly there is an unfounded bias against Kahr pistols here.
Sure there have been some failures with Kahr pistols just as there are with most other brands, but one thing I have noticed in this thread is that most of the people that own Kahrs and have posted in this thread really like their Kahr pistols and all or most the negative posts are from people that own or don't have any real personal experience with a Kahr.
I don't know how a revolver can possibly be better than the two Kahr pistols I own since both have been 100% reliable. Am I missing something like is it possible that the snubies are more than 100% reliable?
Say what you want but nobody is going to convince me that snub nosed revolvers are more accurate or any more reliable than a good auto.
I have not knocked revolvers and if that is what you like fine, but you can't convince me revolvers are a better choice because I have both and the Kahr is my choice because for me it works better than a revolver.
Sure there have been some failures with Kahr pistols just as there are with most other brands, but one thing I have noticed in this thread is that most of the people that own Kahrs and have posted in this thread really like their Kahr pistols and all or most the negative posts are from people that own or don't have any real personal experience with a Kahr.
I don't know how a revolver can possibly be better than the two Kahr pistols I own since both have been 100% reliable. Am I missing something like is it possible that the snubies are more than 100% reliable?
Say what you want but nobody is going to convince me that snub nosed revolvers are more accurate or any more reliable than a good auto.
I have not knocked revolvers and if that is what you like fine, but you can't convince me revolvers are a better choice because I have both and the Kahr is my choice because for me it works better than a revolver.
Ha! Ha! That's great and if I used the same logic as some of the anti Kahr posters here after watching that video I would assume all revolvers where unreliable.
Four Knives
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Best laugh I've had all weekend, despite the nosemilking
sparkyfender
Member
I have the Kahr K9 and the Kahr MK9. Steel framed. Excellent guns! I carry them on the belt, as I consider them too heavy for the pocket.
For pocket carry I have a S&W 638. It works great in the front pocket of my jeans, using a no name pocket holster I got from an auction site.............
I have very little experience with the poly Kahrs. They do seem to have a much more spotty reputation than their all metal siblings.
For pocket carry I have a S&W 638. It works great in the front pocket of my jeans, using a no name pocket holster I got from an auction site.............
I have very little experience with the poly Kahrs. They do seem to have a much more spotty reputation than their all metal siblings.
rellascout
member
Sorry bro Kahrs esp the Polymers are spotty. Some run great others never will. I know of way too many personal accounts of Kahrs failing after a return to the factory after 200+ rounds of break in etc....
Like I said before. If you got one that runs good for you count yourself lucky.
I watched a couple at the range literally having ot push the slide into battery after every shot. After seeing them do it 15 times in a row I leaned out of my lane and told them there is something wrong with the gun. They said we know we are hoping it will go away after 200 rounds. LOL :banghead:
If you are spending $600+ on a polymer gun it better run right out of the box. But hey maybe I am more demanding then you are.
TexasBill
Member
I have a M637 and it's probably the gun I carry most frequently (in fact, I am carrying it now). The little factory grips and +P ammunition can make the Airweight quite a handful, so I changed out the boot grips for a pair of the grips from the M60 Pro and mostly shoot plain, ol' .38 Special through it (and, yes, both my J-frames are well past the 200-round mark). Now, my little revolver is quite manageable. I generally carry my J-frame with an HKS speedloader to give me a quick reload if needed.
I have had a wheelgun lock up on me exactly once and that was when I was firing some over-hot handloads through a M19 Combat Magnum. I have never had a revolver misbehave with factory ammo and I have put a lot of rounds downrange.
I have automatic pistols in both 9mm and .380 and I like them. However, I have pistols that are sized suitably to the round they're designed to handle. I have fired the LCP and found it unpleasant and, unlike my M637, there's not a lot you can do to make it any more pleasant. Frankly, unless your daily garb consists of a pair of speedos, I can't see any point in the LCP at all. Too many people on these forums brag about concealing an M1911 or a Glock for me to give give much weight to the argument that one of the "postage stamp" pistols is needed for concealed carry. I will admit I haven't fired a Kahr .40, but considering it's slightly smaller and weighs about the same as my 637, I am not sure how much fun that would be.
Incidentally, my 637 and Model 60 go to the range with me every trip. They get fired every trip, at least 50 rounds each.
Of course, I realize I am in the minority; Smith & Wesson wouldn't have come out with those silly Bodyguards if there wasn't a healthy market for undersized and underweight firearms. I did get a chuckle from S&W's promotional video for the Bodyguard .380; the guy is wearing a suit with a top coat: he could have been packing a S&W 500 or a Buntline Special and no one would have been able to tell.
I have had a wheelgun lock up on me exactly once and that was when I was firing some over-hot handloads through a M19 Combat Magnum. I have never had a revolver misbehave with factory ammo and I have put a lot of rounds downrange.
I have automatic pistols in both 9mm and .380 and I like them. However, I have pistols that are sized suitably to the round they're designed to handle. I have fired the LCP and found it unpleasant and, unlike my M637, there's not a lot you can do to make it any more pleasant. Frankly, unless your daily garb consists of a pair of speedos, I can't see any point in the LCP at all. Too many people on these forums brag about concealing an M1911 or a Glock for me to give give much weight to the argument that one of the "postage stamp" pistols is needed for concealed carry. I will admit I haven't fired a Kahr .40, but considering it's slightly smaller and weighs about the same as my 637, I am not sure how much fun that would be.
Incidentally, my 637 and Model 60 go to the range with me every trip. They get fired every trip, at least 50 rounds each.
Of course, I realize I am in the minority; Smith & Wesson wouldn't have come out with those silly Bodyguards if there wasn't a healthy market for undersized and underweight firearms. I did get a chuckle from S&W's promotional video for the Bodyguard .380; the guy is wearing a suit with a top coat: he could have been packing a S&W 500 or a Buntline Special and no one would have been able to tell.
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No sir, I'm not a giant. I realize that pocket carrying the guns I mentioned is a lot more difficult than a snub. In fact I have carried a snub in the pocket and I own a M&P 9C. The M&P would FIT in my pocket but with my hands on the larger grip of the M&P its just too hard to get out of the pocket. BUT the size difference overall is pretty slight. I simply would like the OP to consider the fact that current sub compacts are in my opinion pretty close in size and give a big advantage in firepower and capability over the snubby. You might have to carry it IWB but the advantages outweigh the loss of pocket carry for me. I still carry in my pocket when I go to church or other times I want to be more discreet but I use my LCP for that. I feel like if I'm carrying a snubby its for convenience, not because its better. If you only have ONE weapon the snubby is easy to carry and more versatile for pocket carry than some other options. I also agree ti would be a more reliable choice than the polymer framed Kahrs. I would take a MK9 over the others. It would be easier to shoot and more pleasant on the range.
Another issue to me is that most people with snubs just don't shoot them very much. The light weights are pretty unpleasant and I believe practice is a big part of carrying a weapon. I take my M&P 9c to the range, usually once a week, and shoot a minimum of 100 rounds in every outing. I don't think many people with a snubby do that. I simply wanted the OP to consider getting a weapon that is a little more substantial than either. The sub compacts are easy to conceal, pocket carry aside, and they are a TON more fun to shoot. Revolvers are and always have been very reliable. In the past that was a big deal over the semi automatics. Newer autos are pretty darn good though. I think the difference in reliability has become pretty slight.
If I was to pick ONLY the two options the OP listed I would say keep the revolver. This was pretty much my original advice but some of you guys get so danged fired up by anyone that suggests anything other than YOUR opinion.
rubicon923
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If you're looking for a holster-on-your-belt gun, semi auto is the way to go.
For a pocket gun, I don't think anything is better than the 15 oz J-frames.
Going to one of the new .380 pistols will save a few ounces, but the .380 is a definite step down from a .38 special +P. The biggest disadvantage to the small .380 pistols is spotty reliability. The current issue of American Rifleman tested 9 of the new .380 pistols and had malfunctions with 8 of them. The one that didn't malfunction costs $1150.
For a pocket gun, I don't think anything is better than the 15 oz J-frames.
Going to one of the new .380 pistols will save a few ounces, but the .380 is a definite step down from a .38 special +P. The biggest disadvantage to the small .380 pistols is spotty reliability. The current issue of American Rifleman tested 9 of the new .380 pistols and had malfunctions with 8 of them. The one that didn't malfunction costs $1150.
I've fire 500 rounds through my LCP without a single hitch. I can draw and fire 6 rounds on target faster and more accurately than with a snubby and reloads are much faster. I'll take my LCP over a 15oz j-frame anyday. Thats ME. I think its worth trying both out and deciding what works for you. The LCP is much more capable than I thought it would be.
I would always select the small framed revolver (pick your make) over the semi auto for pocket carry. The pocket is a hostile environment for anything. Throw in an item that requires gun oil to function properly, and you have a lint collecting device. Semi-autos hate gunk in their frame rails, leading to failure to return to battery, FTF, FTE, and any number of issues. Revolvers, while not perfect, are scores of degrees more reliable in this environment.
Do what you will, but I would recommend looking a different direction than the Kahr. I had the worst gun owning/customer experience possible with a CW model. I'm not saying all their guns are that way, but if you aren't a lucky one that gets a 100% out of the box model, prepare for CS hell.
Do what you will, but I would recommend looking a different direction than the Kahr. I had the worst gun owning/customer experience possible with a CW model. I'm not saying all their guns are that way, but if you aren't a lucky one that gets a 100% out of the box model, prepare for CS hell.
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