Ash
Member
This talk about the zinc crap out there, such as Jiminez and Lorcin (which even among low-end aficionados is considered abject crap), got me to reflecting on my own personal experiences in the realm oh-so-long ago.
Okay, let's look at if with a novice eye for a minute. When I got out of college, I owned long guns and one handgun, a Colt Trooper Mk III in 22lr. I decided when I moved into my first house that I wanted a handgun for protection and to carry into the woods. I knew how to use revolvers just fine, but knew little about autos. I knew the 1911 - who didn't - but otherwise I knew virtually nothing. The Internet was still a charming thing and AOL was hot stuff if you wanted to actually use a BBS that worked with a rudimentary browser. The info just wasn't there.
But hey, I could learn. The best place, I reasoned, was a gun shop, right? So I went to the local one. They had it turns out a low-end clientele and Lorcin, Raven, Bryco was their thing. They had a used 1911, but it seemed very expensive (heck, could have only been $500, but at the time it seemed like a mint). I handled a Bryco 9 that had a 13 round magazine. It had heft, which was fine by me (now I know they are needlessly heavy because of the Zamac frame). The dealer pointed out that it was 9mm, which was popular, and worked just like a 1911.
He was right - sorta - it was a single-action pistol with a manual safety. It was the new design without a hammer, just like a Glock, but it wasn't plastic. I knew about adjustable sights, but not about semi-auto sights, about frames, what were lousy names, nothing beyond what the dealer said. I trusted him. He wanted to make a sale, I wanted to buy a good firearm. The two objectives were not necessarily compatible. I bought that Bryco - which it turns out was made by a company named Jennings. I got it home. I took it out to target shoot.
I learned quickly what a real piece of crap it was. It hurt to shoot. It was not reliable. The sights were fixed and could not be adjusted (they were cast as part of the slide - this was pre-adjustable sights). It hurt to shoot. I could not figure how to field strip it. The safety was tiny and seemed to exist only as decoration. It hurt to shoot. It jammed.
I decided to learn more about pistols and started reading. You won't find much against a Bryco in printed literature. Even Ian Hogg is needlessly kind about them. But I did start learning that a 9mm really ought to have slide rails (the Bryco does not). They also should be a locked action because every military except for the Spanish felt that 9mm was too hot for a blow-back.
I sold that Bryco for $50 at a gun show. I bought a Llama IX-c in 45acp. It had a high-cap magazine and was utterly reliable. Not very accurate, but reliable. So I learned more. I got decent with that pistol but, again, there was nothing in the print-media that said anything about Llama's. I decided I wanted a double action pistol and that 45acp was my preferred round. I sold that Llama and got an FEG GKK in 45acp. Folks said it was a double action Browning Hi Power in 45acp. What's not to love about that? It taught me that nobody who writes firearms books are true sages. The GKK was never based on the Hi Power, even in the slightest. It is really an evolved Smith and Wesson model 59. The GKK was a good pistol, and so slim it hid well above the visor of my full-size Chevy pickup. But magazines were hard to get and it held less rounds than my Llama did.
I ended up settling on Tanfoglio-based 45's (Springfield, Jericho, Witness, etc) plus the CZ-75 in 9mm (and associated clones/copies). After two decades, I know far more about handguns than I knew when I started the journey. There is now the internet from which all sorts of knowledge can be gleamed.
And there is the print media. It still says nothing bad (if it says anything at all) about Bryco/Jiminez/Lorcin/Cobra/Davis/Raven/Rhome/etc. Stallard/Haskel/HiPoint don't make the literature either (but even way back when, the Stallard turned me off - no offense intended towards you Hi Point guys).
I have some modicum of pity or patience for the Jiminez-buyer. Not everyone is as knowledgeable as I am now. Many are as knowledgeable as I once was. Heck, I have a friend who I gave an SKS to who thought it had to be registered or he needed a permit. He was surprised to learn he only needed ammo.
To the untrained eye, these pistols look good from a distance. They don't look so bad up close. They have heft to them, which makes them feel real and not like toys. This is the market that exists for them. They are not for poor people (though many poor people buy them, ignorantly, when a used Smith and Wesson Model 10 can be had cheaply). They are for people who don't know any better. They are the Yugo, which was a cheap new car (even though a used car for the same price was much better).
Interestingly enough, they have a following among knowledgeable folks (but so does the Yugo). It is interesting to read the Ring Of Fire boards and discover that even among cheap pistols, there is a ranking (Hi Points are the best - yes, I know, many here like them too, enjoy because I am not trashing them, only making a point - and Lorcin is a turd even among those guys).
In the end, folks either become knowledgeable or not.
Okay, let's look at if with a novice eye for a minute. When I got out of college, I owned long guns and one handgun, a Colt Trooper Mk III in 22lr. I decided when I moved into my first house that I wanted a handgun for protection and to carry into the woods. I knew how to use revolvers just fine, but knew little about autos. I knew the 1911 - who didn't - but otherwise I knew virtually nothing. The Internet was still a charming thing and AOL was hot stuff if you wanted to actually use a BBS that worked with a rudimentary browser. The info just wasn't there.
But hey, I could learn. The best place, I reasoned, was a gun shop, right? So I went to the local one. They had it turns out a low-end clientele and Lorcin, Raven, Bryco was their thing. They had a used 1911, but it seemed very expensive (heck, could have only been $500, but at the time it seemed like a mint). I handled a Bryco 9 that had a 13 round magazine. It had heft, which was fine by me (now I know they are needlessly heavy because of the Zamac frame). The dealer pointed out that it was 9mm, which was popular, and worked just like a 1911.
He was right - sorta - it was a single-action pistol with a manual safety. It was the new design without a hammer, just like a Glock, but it wasn't plastic. I knew about adjustable sights, but not about semi-auto sights, about frames, what were lousy names, nothing beyond what the dealer said. I trusted him. He wanted to make a sale, I wanted to buy a good firearm. The two objectives were not necessarily compatible. I bought that Bryco - which it turns out was made by a company named Jennings. I got it home. I took it out to target shoot.
I learned quickly what a real piece of crap it was. It hurt to shoot. It was not reliable. The sights were fixed and could not be adjusted (they were cast as part of the slide - this was pre-adjustable sights). It hurt to shoot. I could not figure how to field strip it. The safety was tiny and seemed to exist only as decoration. It hurt to shoot. It jammed.
I decided to learn more about pistols and started reading. You won't find much against a Bryco in printed literature. Even Ian Hogg is needlessly kind about them. But I did start learning that a 9mm really ought to have slide rails (the Bryco does not). They also should be a locked action because every military except for the Spanish felt that 9mm was too hot for a blow-back.
I sold that Bryco for $50 at a gun show. I bought a Llama IX-c in 45acp. It had a high-cap magazine and was utterly reliable. Not very accurate, but reliable. So I learned more. I got decent with that pistol but, again, there was nothing in the print-media that said anything about Llama's. I decided I wanted a double action pistol and that 45acp was my preferred round. I sold that Llama and got an FEG GKK in 45acp. Folks said it was a double action Browning Hi Power in 45acp. What's not to love about that? It taught me that nobody who writes firearms books are true sages. The GKK was never based on the Hi Power, even in the slightest. It is really an evolved Smith and Wesson model 59. The GKK was a good pistol, and so slim it hid well above the visor of my full-size Chevy pickup. But magazines were hard to get and it held less rounds than my Llama did.
I ended up settling on Tanfoglio-based 45's (Springfield, Jericho, Witness, etc) plus the CZ-75 in 9mm (and associated clones/copies). After two decades, I know far more about handguns than I knew when I started the journey. There is now the internet from which all sorts of knowledge can be gleamed.
And there is the print media. It still says nothing bad (if it says anything at all) about Bryco/Jiminez/Lorcin/Cobra/Davis/Raven/Rhome/etc. Stallard/Haskel/HiPoint don't make the literature either (but even way back when, the Stallard turned me off - no offense intended towards you Hi Point guys).
I have some modicum of pity or patience for the Jiminez-buyer. Not everyone is as knowledgeable as I am now. Many are as knowledgeable as I once was. Heck, I have a friend who I gave an SKS to who thought it had to be registered or he needed a permit. He was surprised to learn he only needed ammo.
To the untrained eye, these pistols look good from a distance. They don't look so bad up close. They have heft to them, which makes them feel real and not like toys. This is the market that exists for them. They are not for poor people (though many poor people buy them, ignorantly, when a used Smith and Wesson Model 10 can be had cheaply). They are for people who don't know any better. They are the Yugo, which was a cheap new car (even though a used car for the same price was much better).
Interestingly enough, they have a following among knowledgeable folks (but so does the Yugo). It is interesting to read the Ring Of Fire boards and discover that even among cheap pistols, there is a ranking (Hi Points are the best - yes, I know, many here like them too, enjoy because I am not trashing them, only making a point - and Lorcin is a turd even among those guys).
In the end, folks either become knowledgeable or not.
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