horge
Member
In the course of researching for a possible purchase I came across some information that might be of use to those selecting a Llama firearm, making it less of a cliff-dive risk. I think I can also help explain the wide disparity of opinion between those who like their Llama pistols well enough, and those who simply despise(d) them.
Llama began operations in 1904 and had always been associated with the northern city of Vitoria in Spain, but what really concerns us is recent history.
In early 1992, Llama sought some protection under technical bankruptcy. Poor management, overlate investment in steel technology and robust competition was to blame, and above all a management decision to subcontract some work out to unqualified outsiders. This is said to have led to a substantial pile of reject inventory.
When William Clinton was looking to win the US presidency and win big, it was further trouble: Llama suspected Clinton was out to severely restrict the US market's (85% of Llama's business at the time) access to handguns, and many now suspect that Llama began shipping/dumping as many units as it could --using even the reject parts-- before harsher gun control could be enacted. These guns, the good and the bad, naturally have the old "Llama Gabilondo y Cia" on the slide.
About 1993, 60 longtime employees and master gunsmiths started arranging financing to eventually take over and revive Llama. The process took up til 2000 to finalize, and eventually the Llama name became the property of the new entity Fabrinor, a cooperative set up by the 60.
Virtually all the new manufactures from after the takeover are thus marked "Fabrinor Vitoria" on the slide. Unfortunately, while the management was now sincere in not shipping reject crap, it was still using the same old foundry, forge and mills that it inherited from the old company: much better dedication to craftsmanship, but using less than state of the art equipment.
When Fabrinor took over, they sold off Llama's real estate in Vitoria and began investing in new machinery and foundry equipment, while constucting a new forge, foundry and mill in relatively-nearby Gojain. I would presume that new pistols from there would bear the "Fabrinor Vitoria" mark, so as not to prejudice their present inventory. I hope they will use a new mark, so those choosing Llamas can choose what's better.
Right now the Fabrinor cooperative is still using the old Llama facility, albeit with constantly-upgrading equipment, until it can move everything to Gojain.
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So basically, pistols marked "Llama Gabilondo y Cia" from the 80's and 90's seem to be a very risky crapshoot for the buyer. There are some that are okay, and a lot that are horrendous in quality. These are where many of the 'soft steel' complaints online seem to come from, and such units should be considered with care and caution. There are good Llamas from before 1992 and even up to 2000, but there are apparently just too many substandard pistols of the 1992 - 1995 (and a bit further) period that were dumped into the market.
The newer Llama's marked "Fabrinor Vitoria" are a much, much lessened risk to the buyer. There is still the odd lemon resulting from human error in weeding the inventory free of old reject parts, but what manufacturer dosn't produce the odd lemons? Generally speaking, the newer the Llama by Fabrinor, the better.
It seems that Fabrinor's cooperative of master gunsmiths is so keen on restoring the Llama name they now offer a lifetime guarantee on Fabrinor's Llama pistols. If a pistol should turn out to be cursed with bad parts that slipped in from Llama Gabilondo's reject inventory, they or their authorized representatives in your country will fix it.
When Fabrinor starts up the new facility in Gojain, the quality of their pistols may improve even further, and I hope the lifetime guarantee is going to stay.
Would I buy a Llama?
I'd probably buy an Armscor GI (aka a Rock Island Armory) because I would KNOW what I'm getting for the price I'm paying and what work I would need to put into it. Norinco's aren't restricted here, though I don't like subsidizing communism
A Llama? Not my first choice for reliability, even on a tight budget.
Buuuut... that Llama Micromax .380 in full chrome seems just too darn cute --and it would probably make a good project for most any amateur gunsmith to try his skills on.
hth.
Llama began operations in 1904 and had always been associated with the northern city of Vitoria in Spain, but what really concerns us is recent history.
In early 1992, Llama sought some protection under technical bankruptcy. Poor management, overlate investment in steel technology and robust competition was to blame, and above all a management decision to subcontract some work out to unqualified outsiders. This is said to have led to a substantial pile of reject inventory.
When William Clinton was looking to win the US presidency and win big, it was further trouble: Llama suspected Clinton was out to severely restrict the US market's (85% of Llama's business at the time) access to handguns, and many now suspect that Llama began shipping/dumping as many units as it could --using even the reject parts-- before harsher gun control could be enacted. These guns, the good and the bad, naturally have the old "Llama Gabilondo y Cia" on the slide.
About 1993, 60 longtime employees and master gunsmiths started arranging financing to eventually take over and revive Llama. The process took up til 2000 to finalize, and eventually the Llama name became the property of the new entity Fabrinor, a cooperative set up by the 60.
Virtually all the new manufactures from after the takeover are thus marked "Fabrinor Vitoria" on the slide. Unfortunately, while the management was now sincere in not shipping reject crap, it was still using the same old foundry, forge and mills that it inherited from the old company: much better dedication to craftsmanship, but using less than state of the art equipment.
When Fabrinor took over, they sold off Llama's real estate in Vitoria and began investing in new machinery and foundry equipment, while constucting a new forge, foundry and mill in relatively-nearby Gojain. I would presume that new pistols from there would bear the "Fabrinor Vitoria" mark, so as not to prejudice their present inventory. I hope they will use a new mark, so those choosing Llamas can choose what's better.
Right now the Fabrinor cooperative is still using the old Llama facility, albeit with constantly-upgrading equipment, until it can move everything to Gojain.
-----
So basically, pistols marked "Llama Gabilondo y Cia" from the 80's and 90's seem to be a very risky crapshoot for the buyer. There are some that are okay, and a lot that are horrendous in quality. These are where many of the 'soft steel' complaints online seem to come from, and such units should be considered with care and caution. There are good Llamas from before 1992 and even up to 2000, but there are apparently just too many substandard pistols of the 1992 - 1995 (and a bit further) period that were dumped into the market.
The newer Llama's marked "Fabrinor Vitoria" are a much, much lessened risk to the buyer. There is still the odd lemon resulting from human error in weeding the inventory free of old reject parts, but what manufacturer dosn't produce the odd lemons? Generally speaking, the newer the Llama by Fabrinor, the better.
It seems that Fabrinor's cooperative of master gunsmiths is so keen on restoring the Llama name they now offer a lifetime guarantee on Fabrinor's Llama pistols. If a pistol should turn out to be cursed with bad parts that slipped in from Llama Gabilondo's reject inventory, they or their authorized representatives in your country will fix it.
When Fabrinor starts up the new facility in Gojain, the quality of their pistols may improve even further, and I hope the lifetime guarantee is going to stay.
Would I buy a Llama?
I'd probably buy an Armscor GI (aka a Rock Island Armory) because I would KNOW what I'm getting for the price I'm paying and what work I would need to put into it. Norinco's aren't restricted here, though I don't like subsidizing communism
A Llama? Not my first choice for reliability, even on a tight budget.
Buuuut... that Llama Micromax .380 in full chrome seems just too darn cute --and it would probably make a good project for most any amateur gunsmith to try his skills on.
hth.
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