TIL how nickel cases ruin dies

[GLOOB]

So I decided to load a batch of 45 ACP today. I had 8 nickel cases from my batch of range brass, so I decided to add these to the rest of my brass. At some point during the belling, I noticed the brass was starting to stick badly. Hmm, there were also lots of scratches inside the case neck. Then during seating, I noticed the bullets were rough going in.

Upon examination of the expanding ring, there are several gold-colored streaks surrounding the ring - probably about 20, equally spaced.

Did a little research, and figured the "gold" streaks must be nickel. Taking an exacto knife, I actually dug a few out.

I pulled a few plated bullets, and I noticed a couple things. 1. The bullets were harder to pull than expected. It usually only takes me 2 whacks to get a 230 gr bullet out. These bullets took 4-5 good whacks. And 2. I can see the scratches that the cases made on the bullets!

So I wonder if these bullets might be unsafe to fire, due to increased pressure?

I have probably reloaded about 15 nickel cases, total on these dies! (And probably 100 on my .357 dies, but they were my own once-fired; no scratches!) So let that be a lesson to the rest of you. If you're going to reload range pickup nickel brass, make sure to properly chamfer it. Even if you have carbide dies, the expanding ring is made of steel!

 

[Sport45]

Maybe I've been lucky, but my experience with nickel cases hasn't been bad. I toss them in with the brass handgun cases and use them interchangeably. No problems at all.

 

[cfullgraf]

I have never had an issue with nickel cases except when using steel resizing dies. Nickel is harder than brass and can scratch the steel dies more easily, particularly if the cases are not properly lubricated.

Actually, the "gold" streaks are brass streaks as nickel would leave a "silver" streak. I have seen this before on some of my expanders but in the distant past but did not think much about it.

The plating process may put some deposits of nickel on the mouth of the case that would be harder than the brass and promote leaving the brass streaks.

Chamfering the mouths should solve that problem.

The nickel probably adds ever so little to the thickness of the case. Also, those cases may be thicker anyway. Both could add to the additional force required to seat or unseat the bullet. I have experienced this on different brands of brass but never paid it much mine. I could feel the difference in seating pressure, but it was not like I had to jump up and down on the press handle to seat the bullet.

While don't completely practice what i preach, I tend to avoid nickel plated brass. (I just bought 200 pieces of new nickel plated 17 Rem cases on sale!)

 

[birddog]

I use them in .357 interchangeably. No issues. I use carbide dies.

 

[Walkalong]

No issues with the nickle .357 brass I have been loading.

 

[dogrunner]

Clean cases and clean dies will alleviate your problem........dirty nickled brass will scratch in a longitudinal fashion........easily remedied by a quick cleaning and internal polish of the sizing die.

A little crocus cloth on a mandrel in either a drill or dremel like tool will do the job. Hard felt bob with jewelers rouge works well too.

 

[Sport45]

TIL how nickel cases ruin dies

By the way, what is TIL?

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

i'm gonna guess "technical information letter"

 

[rcmodel]

Thats one reason why I use a little case lube spritzed in a bowl full of brass to be sized on all handgun brass.

Just a tad of case lube inside the mouth of an occasional case will lube the expander plug enough to prevent brass galling totally.

rc

 

[gamestalker]

I've been loading nickel for ever and haven't had any issues, except one of my high powered rifles doesn't produce as tight of groups with it as with standard brass. Regarding neck tension, which is what I think you are refering to, it doesn't make any diference. Just bell the mouths enough to accept the bullets without shaving off the sides, and your good to go. But certainly don't let the increased neck tension worry you, it doesn't have any negative effect what so ever.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Odd....I have mixed brass that I have been using as long as 20 years and never have ruined a set of dies.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Use lube.

Just because it is carbide and says you dont have to does not mean you still shouldnt. It does not take a lot and you dont have to make a production out of it. Just a spritz into a bag or can and stir them around.

Hornady One Shot works great.

 

[Steve C]

Nickle plated cases do not damage dies but after some time small pieces of nickle will often flake of the cases and stick on the die surface. These start causing visible scratches on cases, specially brass cases, when they are re-sized. Clean up your die and the scratches go away. I've used a bore brush wrapped in fine steel wool and chucked in a electric trill to clean up the die.

 

[GLOOB]

By the way, what is TIL?

Today, I learned.

Clean up your die and the scratches go away.

I was able to pick out a few of the pieces out of the scores of streaks. Then I polished it with a dremel and felt polishing tip and buffing compound, while trying to evenly rotate the ring by hand. The die no longer sticks, but the gold bits are still embedded in there, only smaller and smoother.

I have seen this before on some of my expanders but in the distant past but did not think much about it.

Trying to get the shell out of the expanding die was proving to be much harder than resizing/depriming. It was turning the fastest operation into a royal pain! The seating was also worrisome. I put plenty of flare on the cases, but the bullets felt like sandpaper going in. And these cases were cleaned with SS pins, so they were very clean on the inside.

FWIW, this expanding ring is super rough, compared to all my other calibers. There are lots of horizontal/concentric ridges all along the ring from the machining. I'm sure this didn't help. I also found the same streaks on my luger die. but the cases aren't sticking like they did with the 45 die.

New question:
Does case lube affect crimp/tension? I don't want to remove sizing lube after sizing and belling, because I prefer to prime while sizing.

 

[ljnowell]

I have been reloading nickel 357, 38, 45colt, and 45acp for a long time now, with no problems at all. I think sometimes people get a bad piece of brass with nickel flaking and run it into a sizing die not noticing it.

 

[Walkalong]

FWIW, this expanding ring is super rough, compared to all my other calibers. There are lots of horizontal/concentric ridges all along the ring from the machining

Lee expanders tend to be that way. I have polished all of mine. It stops the grabbing and jerking and brass shaving when expanding.

 

[rfwobbly]

I also load nickel cases in 9x19, 38 Super and 9x23 without issue. Sounds like 1 or more of the following...

• Overly zealous bell
• No wax in the tumble media
• No case lube

 

[1SOW]

Ditto. No problem with 9mm nickel, but I don't get a significant percentage of nickel range pick-up cases.

Using Nu-finish in the tumbling media or a wax-base case lube makes a 'big' difference in smoothing the handle pull.

 

[GP100man]

I have nickel cases & have seperate dies to load it with .

If the bullets are just round nosed you should be ok but I would`nt trust HPs , the plating may be cut enuff to release the cores thru the hp opening .

 

[Safetychain]

Gloob, google carbide, looking for a microscopic view, will show that carbide isn't like standard metal. It looks like fused sand particles, just like it is, silicon carbide grains crushed together. These little holes between the grains will fill up with softer compounds and appear to stain the carbide with no effect on the tool's performance.

I've loaded thousands of nickel cases in .380, 9mm, .38, .357, .45, with no notice at all of any difference between it and brass other than some occasional flaking from the nickel. Only the .44 mag causes a noticeable difference in case sizing force which I solve by pinching an oily rag with the fingers that I use to place the cases in the shell plate when I notice a difference in the force required. After a few cases you will have spread a thin film of oil around the die. The last time I had to pinch the rag every 4th or 5th shell. I use on the rag: lube oil, case lube, STP or canuba(sp) car wax. STP lasts the longest but sometimes makes it harder to pickup the cases.

 

[snuffy]

Gloob, when I first read your post this morning, I couldn't figure out what you meant by "ring". An expander plug is solid, like a shaft.

Chuck it in a drill, hold some sort of fine abrasive against it to polish the foreign material off it's outside diameter. Scotch brite works great for this, it's a mild abrasive that usually doesn't remove metal, just smooths it.

I never have any trouble with nickel cases, whether they're for rifle or handgun. The early nickle PLATED cases would sometimes peel. Now they're more of a coating using an electroless process. The coating is very thin, so it's very difficult for it to peel. it will wear off if they get tumbled a lot and don't die from neck splits.

Nickle isn't hard enough to cut, scratch, or otherwise harm any steel die surface. It IS NOT CHROME! it's ONLY function is to avoid tarnish/corrosion that brass is very prone to. Some say it's slicker than bare brass, maybe that's another function.

 

[GLOOB]

Gloob, google carbide, looking for a microscopic view, will show that carbide isn't like standard metal. It looks like fused sand particles

It's the expanding ball I'm talking about. It's actually a ring in the Lee dies, because of their patented thing where you can pour a powder charge through the top of the expanding die. It's steel.

I also load nickel cases in 9x19, 38 Super and 9x23 without issue. Sounds like 1 or more of the following...

• Overly zealous bell
• No wax in the tumble media
• No case lube

Yeah, thanks guys. After all the feedback, I think I was just underlubed. I was used to sizing wax-tumbled brass. But this was an older lot, and IIRC, I only tumbled it for a little while, because it arrived squeaky clean. I think the streaks were brass, not nickel. Whatever it is, it's permanently embedded into the steel.

I guess I'll be more careful in the future.

I really hate using lube for pistol brass. I wonder if I'm a candidate for a universal expanding die? I guess I'll have to do some research to see how they work.