Problems reloading Winchester 243 WSSM nickel casings

[Deer_hunting_Bob]

I couldn't find any recent posts regarding this subject, but I'm having a doozy of a time reloading the nickel-brass from Winchester for my 243 WSSM. Once-fired ammo is difficult, if not impossible to chamber.

I have a Browning A-Bolt Stainless Stalker with BOSS in243 WSSM. Love the rifle but factory ammo accuracy is not all that good, even after adjusting BOSS system to minimum POI spread. I've been shooting Winchester factory ammo (95 gr ballistic silvertip) but, again, not happy with accuracy. I save all my brass so I decided to try reloading the factory nickel-brass using Hornady Lock N Load press and dies. Running the nickel-brass casings through the resizing die is rough work, but I ran into the same problem others have mentioned in terms of being able to fully chamber a reloaded nickel-brass casing. Sent emails to Hornady and Winchester and haven't heard back from them. Got my headspace gauge out to measure the reloaded casing against a factory casing (unfired, nickel-brass). The "fired" casing headspace is .010" less than the factory ammo (unfired), and that's with the resizing die set for maximum headspace (bottom of die touching the shellholder). So it appears that the resizing die isn't properly resetting the shoulders of the casing (or the nickel-brass is just too hard to work with). According to the Hornady Handbook (7th edition), the distance between the bottom of the case neck and the beginning of the shoulder (i.e., where the wide part transitions to the neck) should be .238". My resized nickel-brass distance is a whopping .290", or .052" longer than spec. I think that's why the reloaded shell is hard (and in my case, impossible) to chamber.

I've reloaded some virgin brass (85 gr Hornady Interbond) and it chambers just fine. If I've measured everything correctly, the bullet is seated .030" off the lands (the factory ammo is close to .140" off the lands). Unfortunately, I haven't had time to test the reloaded ammo at the range (for accuracy) and reload it (to see if I run into the same problems as with the nickel-brass). Once I get a chance to do that, I'll update this post. I also hope to hear back from Hornady and Winchester and will post that information as well.

I've given up on reloading the nickel-brass casings until I hear back from you guys or Hornady/Winchester.

 

[Geno]

If you check various sources, it has been reported that nickel-plated brass does not lend itself to reloading. While I can be performed, it is harder on the equipment due to the hardness that the nickel plating produces in the brass. Check the "notes" statement on this page: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1601260222 . MidwayUSA notes that if you intend to reload, purchase regular (non-nickel) finished brass.

Geno

 

[PCCUSNRET]

I reload nickel plated .308, .270, 300 WM, 7 mm Mag, .243, .223 and several handgun loads and the only problem I've ever had with nickel brass is flaking after being loaded numerous times.

Can you tell where the brass is hitting when you try to chamber it? Instructions for RCBS resizing dies require the die to be turned a quarter turn more after the die hits the shell holder. Does the nickel brass chamber okay before you run it through your resizing die? Seems like all you would need to do is neck size this brass if it was first fired in the same gun. I've got a 243 WSSM Win 70 and it won't shoot factory rounds worth a darn either (but haven't been able to come up with a load that shoots any better than the factory loads). If you do come up with a load that works I would love to hear what you get to work. I'm really at the point of believing this was the worst cartridge ever developed or I have the worst Winchester 70 243 WSSM to leave the factory. I'm talking 6" groups at 100 yards if the wind is blowing.

 

[PCCUSNRET]

ONe last thought. If you want to send me one of these nickel cases I'll gladly run it through my RCBS die and see if it will chamber okay in my Winchester. If the regular brass fits okay then I can't see why the nickel wouldn't fit.

 

[NCsmitty]

So it appears that the resizing die isn't properly resetting the shoulders of the casing (or the nickel-brass is just too hard to work with).

That pretty much sums up the issue.

As parker51 mentioned, you need to turn your die down at least 1/4 turn after contacting the shell holder. Slop in the linkage is not allowing a good full size operation to occur, at your current position of the die. If you shine a back light on the shell holder when sizing, you will see that the die is not touching the shell holder as it is currently set. Screw down the die until it eliminates the gap and/or, the brass fits the chamber.
The other factor preventing a successful fit is the fact that wsm and wssm brass is much thicker than standard caliber's brass, due to their high operating pressure.
Proper sizing with a quality lube applied correctly, should mostly eliminate your reloading problem(s).
I have loaded for a 223 wssm, and they do require a firm sizing stroke to bring them to proper size.



NCsmitty

 

[ranger335v]

Well, nickled cases can be a PITA but they are pretty.

 

[snuffy]

Your problem is NOT the nickel plating. I get upset when people rail against the nickel plated brass. It actually resizes easier than plain brass.

The "fired" casing headspace is .010" less than the factory ammo (unfired), and that's with the resizing die set for maximum headspace (bottom of die touching the shellholder). So it appears that the resizing die isn't properly resetting the shoulders of the casing (or the nickel-brass is just too hard to work with)

As smitty said, you have to have the die touching the shell holder while the shell is in the die being FL resized. This accounts for flex of the press linkage and slop/looseness in the LNL bushings. Once you get the die to touch, you'll get the shoulder set back so the brass will chamber.

The "fired" casing headspace is .010" less than

By this do you mean the case is .010 SHORTER than an unfired factory shell? Then it should chamber easily.

 

[243winxb]

From Geno link. Midwayusa said

•Nickel plated brass is not suitable for case forming as it tends to crack due to hardness greater than standard brass.

•Nickel plated brass is harder on reloading dies due to this greater hardness than brass.

Case "forming" is a lot different than case "sizing"

 

[Deer_hunting_Bob]

Your problem is NOT the nickel plating. I get upset when people rail against the nickel plated brass. It actually resizes easier than plain brass.



As smitty said, you have to have the die touching the shell holder while the shell is in the die being FL resized. This accounts for flex of the press linkage and slop/looseness in the LNL bushings. Once you get the die to touch, you'll get the shoulder set back so the brass will chamber.



By this do you mean the case is .010 SHORTER than an unfired factory shell? Then it should chamber easily.

Quick replies to both NCsmitty and snuffy- thanks very much for the insights. I didn't put it in the original message because it was so long, but I did move the resizing die down a quarter turn and then a half turn and the shoulders of the casing didn't change (that's why I've got the email into Hornady - I would have thought the shoulders would have been reshaped to their proper dimensions once I ran the casing all the way up; well most of the way up because at a half turn the shell wouldn't go all the way up or, more accurately, I was afraid to push the handle any harder).

Snuffy, honestly I'm indifferent to whether I use nickel-brass or regular brass. Whatever it is I'm doing is not working with the nickel-brass so I've got to get ideas from you guys on what to do differently to stack the odds in my favor - the nickel-brass is winning the battle right now but I'm sure it won't win the war. I'd sure like to figure it out because I've got a few hundred nickel-brass casings to work with (my 16-year old burns through these shells like candy!).

My next trick is to go back to adding a quarter turn to the resizing die and thoroughly color the shoulders of a nickel-brass casing with a magic marker. Hopefully that will tell me whether or not the die and top of the shoulder/bottom of the neck are making contact. If they're not making contact, I'm probably wimping out on shoving the casing up all the way into the die (afraid of getting a stuck casing). I'm not sure how "rough" to be with the press - reloading metallic shells is new to me. Could be the whole problem is me. If it's not me then about the only other thing it could be is the die I'm using.

Parker51 - I'll take you up on your offer to try one in your setup if this next trick doesn't work.

Oh, back to snuffy: when I was talking about headspace I meant that the distance from the rim of the casing to the bottom of the neck is longer (hence less headspace) rather than shorter.

Thanks all!

 

[Deer_hunting_Bob]

5 minute update:

Colored the shoulders, added a quarter turn, pushed a little harder, the casing didn't get stuck (nickel-brass, that is). Appears the die is making contact with the shoulders - guess what?!!??? It worked!!!

Put the casing in the rifle and the bolt closed snugly (normally, that is). Measured the headspace and it is the same as the factory unfired cartridge.

So apparently I was just being too wimpy with the press.

Couldn't have fixed my problem without y'all's (is that a word?) help! Thanks to all - much appreciated.

"I have seen the enemy, and he is me..."